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Brandishing a ... finger?

TFred

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This article on the Free Lance-Star web page today mentions that a 16 year old was charged with brandishing, but does not explicitly say that the suspect was in possession of a gun.

A commenter observed that one may be charged with brandishing even if they do not have a gun, and a quick read of the code shows that it says "any firearm [...] or any object similar in appearance", which would seem to support such a conclusion, if the person were holding their hand, "gun style" under a shirt or jacket.

So my question is, does anyone know of any case where a person has actually been convicted of brandishing their finger?

TFred
 

CRF250rider1000

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That is funny but I could see how it would be true since some people are stupid enough to hold up a place doing said act. What my question is is what if I shoot that person in self defense because I believe that they did have a gun only to find out that I just shot an unarmed person?
 

nova

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That is funny but I could see how it would be true since some people are stupid enough to hold up a place doing said act. What my question is is what if I shoot that person in self defense because I believe that they did have a gun only to find out that I just shot an unarmed person?

well, people have been convicted when they rob a bank by passing a note to the teller claiming to have a gun or bomb but actually don't.
 

nova

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True. I'm guessing that said person would probably say something to back up their actions as well. Just makes me wonder. hmm

yeah there would have to be something besides someone randomly just making a "gun" with their fingers.
 

TFred

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The common thread between both brandishing and justified self-defense seems to be that a reasonable person would be in fear. So as with all such cases, it would come down to the particular facts and the skill with which the respective attorneys presented those facts, to determine the outcome.

IANAL, but it seems to me it would be entirely possible to be found justified in a shooting of someone who presented a finger in their jacket as a gun with the intent to threaten your life.

TFred
 

hunter45

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After reading the title of this thread, I immediately thought of this :)

GranTorino.jpg
 

paramedic70002

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I have gotten a conviction for brandishing when the object was a BB gun. Was working security and saw a guy flash it from under his shirt to a girl in a a car. Sucka nearly got ventilated. Idiot!
 

fully_armed_biker

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Well...if this is the case, it makes me feel a little better about one of the more stupid things I've done since I started OCing. This happened right after I first started OCing, and before I found OCDO and had a chance to learn from the good people here. I was in traffic waiting to go through the Mid-Town tunnel off of Brambleton, in Norfolk, heading home to Portsmouth. While I was in the section on the bridge with the double white lines (crossing the double white lines carries a $250 fine), a car tried to pull in front of me...and I didn't let the car in. The car got in behind me, right on my bumper, and I looked in the rear view mirror to see a young African-American woman pointing her finger at me, making the motion of a hammer falling, then blowing the tip of her finger...like she just shot me...to which I responded by pulling my Colt Combat Commander from its holster, holding it up by the grip about shoulder level (pointed at the roof, finger no where near the trigger, not even gripping tightly enough to disengage the grip safety) and nodding my head. All of a sudden I had at least a car length between her and I the rest of the way to the tunnel opening where traffic merges. Luckily nothing ever came of it. Yes it was stupid, I've never done anything like that since...and yes, I was guilty of brandishing...nice to know, so was she.
 

TFred

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Well...if this is the case, it makes me feel a little better about one of the more stupid things I've done since I started OCing. This happened right after I first started OCing, and before I found OCDO and had a chance to learn from the good people here. I was in traffic waiting to go through the Mid-Town tunnel off of Brambleton, in Norfolk, heading home to Portsmouth. While I was in the section on the bridge with the double white lines (crossing the double white lines carries a $250 fine), a car tried to pull in front of me...and I didn't let the car in. The car got in behind me, right on my bumper, and I looked in the rear view mirror to see a young African-American woman pointing her finger at me, making the motion of a hammer falling, then blowing the tip of her finger...like she just shot me...to which I responded by pulling my Colt Combat Commander from its holster, holding it up by the grip about shoulder level (pointed at the roof, finger no where near the trigger, not even gripping tightly enough to disengage the grip safety) and nodding my head. All of a sudden I had at least a car length between her and I the rest of the way to the tunnel opening where traffic merges. Luckily nothing ever came of it. Yes it was stupid, I've never done anything like that since...and yes, I was guilty of brandishing...nice to know, so was she.
Yes, you were lucky!

I don't think she was brandishing, if you knew immediately it was only her finger, and you had no reasonable fear. Although the newspaper article didn't go into the specifics of this case, I suspect the only way you could be brandishing with a finger would be from inside a pocket, etc, where your finger became "similar in appearance" to a firearm.

IANAL, so who knows.

TFred
 

Ronsmag

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Well...if this is the case, it makes me feel a little better about one of the more stupid things I've done since I started OCing. This happened right after I first started OCing, and before I found OCDO and had a chance to learn from the good people here. I was in traffic waiting to go through the Mid-Town tunnel off of Brambleton, in Norfolk, heading home to Portsmouth. While I was in the section on the bridge with the double white lines (crossing the double white lines carries a $250 fine), a car tried to pull in front of me...and I didn't let the car in. The car got in behind me, right on my bumper, and I looked in the rear view mirror to see a young African-American woman pointing her finger at me, making the motion of a hammer falling, then blowing the tip of her finger...like she just shot me...to which I responded by pulling my Colt Combat Commander from its holster, holding it up by the grip about shoulder level (pointed at the roof, finger no where near the trigger, not even gripping tightly enough to disengage the grip safety) and nodding my head. All of a sudden I had at least a car length between her and I the rest of the way to the tunnel opening where traffic merges. Luckily nothing ever came of it. Yes it was stupid, I've never done anything like that since...and yes, I was guilty of brandishing...nice to know, so was she.

Yes, that was wrong but who on here hasn't want to do that one time or another
 
K

kittyhawk63

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well, people have been convicted when they rob a bank by passing a note to the teller claiming to have a gun or bomb but actually don't.

Not relevant to question. Saying something is not the same thing as brandishing.
 

user

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1) The essence of the crime of brandishing is the intent to intimidate or coerce another person with the threat to use a weapon.

2) Assault is the unprivileged [offer, threat, attempt] to offensively touch the person of another, without cause, justification or excuse. On the civil side, it requires that the person have "the apprehension of an immediate battery" ("apprehension" means understanding or belief, not fear); on the criminal side it requires the actual means to carry out the battery if the person being threatened is unaware of the threat (e.g., the .30-06 in the U.Tx. bell tower before the shooting started). Battery is the touching (regardless of the degree of damage inflicted) - assault does not involve a touch. Assault with a deadly weapon is like brandishing, but it requires the presence of an actual weapon and the ability to do real harm.

3) The self defense rule has nothing to do with "fear" or any other emotional state - it doesn't matter whether you're afraid or perfectly calm and collected. It has to do with whether you have the reasonably held good faith belief, based on objective fact, that you or another innocent third party is faced with the threat of imminent serious bodily injury.

Cops shoot people more often than you'd think because they suddenly pull out a pen or go into a pocket and pull out a cell phone or zippo. "I saw him suddenly produce a shiny object which he held in a threatening manner; I heard a sound like a round being chambered in a gun; I believed he had a gun and that I and my partner were in immediate danger. I fired and killed the suspect." -- justifiable homicide. Same rule applies to everyone, except that cops get a special dose of undeserved credibility with the court. (Credibility ought not have anything to do with one's status or job, especially if one is an agent of the State, in my opinion.)
 
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nova

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Not relevant to question. Saying something is not the same thing as brandishing.

Ok then, people have been convicted of brandishing when they wern't in possession of an actual firearm. Within a year or two there was a ruling that upheld a conviction of a guy who used a replica gun to threaten someone.
 

Wolf_shadow

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Ok then, people have been convicted of brandishing when they wern't in possession of an actual firearm. Within a year or two there was a ruling that upheld a conviction of a guy who used a replica gun to threaten someone.

A replica gun when used in the context of making a threat is still brandishing. It was used to instill fear. and the use of a replica like that against the wrong person could get you killed!

If someone threatens me with a gun like object, I'm not stopping to ask if it's a toy, replica, etc.. I will take cover or move while I draw and fire as quick as I can.
:cuss:
 
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