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Thread: Religious Denominations/Bodies

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Religious Denominations/Bodies

    I suspect a lot of folks on here belong to one or the other religious affiliations. Which one is none of mine or anyone else's business.

    What I would like to ask those of you who have a religious affiliation is, "What is your particular group's stand on firearms/Second Amendment issues?"

    My reason for asking is this: I was shocked and dismayed to find that the body with which I am currently affiliated is very anti-gun and, in fact, backs the UN treaty that is nothing but a gun grab. I won't, as yet, dissolve my association because of other, personal, considerations, but they will not get any financial support from me.

    Before anyone asks, yes, my pastor is very much aware of my feelings in this matter.

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    i am quiet lucky to have a church body almost entirely made up of hunters. i personally do not hunt, im more into tactical/combat shooting, anywho so most of my church is neutral/pro-gun. might be a couple old misinformed ladies.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    My reason for asking is this: I was shocked and dismayed to find that the body with which I am currently affiliated is very anti-gun and, in fact, backs the UN treaty that is nothing but a gun grab.
    I would be too, SFCRetired, particularly after having spent 20+ years supporting and defending our Constitution of which these folks are apparently ignorant.

    Might I suggest you dump them as an organization. Yes, it's a hard decision. However, The vast majority of those I belonged to over the years, most of them civilian, wouldn't support this extremism with a toothpick. If your group is, you're fallen into a wayward group.

    Before anyone asks, yes, my pastor is very much aware of my feelings in this matter.
    If you feel like your pastor is instrumental in your life with respect to other matters such as family, yet supports your beliefs, more power to you. But if he's not supporting your 2A rights, let me know. I'll not try and change his/her mind (usually futile), but if you choose to agree with what I've posted here, let me know and I'll support your position.
    Last edited by since9; 10-20-2010 at 08:44 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    What I would like to ask those of you who have a religious affiliation is, "What is your particular group's stand on firearms/Second Amendment issues?"
    I have searched, carefully, the central policy statements and can find nothing directly related. On the church-women's 'blog are a couple of hoplophobic threads and the general tenor is pacifistic.

    Because my church was born in civil/religious wars, culminating in the Schmalkaldic War and the Formula of Concord, I find it dishonest to not embrace our heritage and victory.

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    My church, but to be honest I haven't been in over a year, is very "Don't ask/Don't tell" about guns. It's considered a personal choice that has nothing to do with church. Of course, that means no OC for me.

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    I currently do not subscribe to any religious affiliate... however I was raised in a Christian home where guns were not tolerated. We were taught to rely on God to protect us... owning a handgun would have spat in His face because it meant we did not have faith in Him to protect us from evil.

    Okay so that's a bit of a dramatic take on it... but that was the basic idea.

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    God can't be everywhere, that's why guns were invented!
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I was raised in the United Methodist Church (although I'm no longer affiliated). The UMC has the OFFICIAL policy that they are against ALL firearms. They even sent a representative to testify last year in MD AGAINST HB-52 (the only "nay" testimony, BTW, aside from the MSP...)

    My current religious affiliation doesn't take an official stand one way or the other--they let the individual decide what he or she wants to do.
    Last edited by Dreamer; 11-08-2010 at 01:13 AM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Thanks for bringing that to my attention, Dreamer. It's a little concerning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    God can't be anywhere, that's why guns were invented!
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member Haz.'s Avatar
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    Did it again! sorry. Haz.
    Last edited by Haz.; 10-21-2010 at 01:29 AM. Reason: accidental double post, sorry.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Deism

    I am a Deist, I believe that the Creator granted me certain unalienable rights.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member Haz.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    I suspect a lot of folks on here belong to one or the other religious affiliations. Which one is none of mine or anyone else's business.

    What I would like to ask those of you who have a religious affiliation is, "What is your particular group's stand on firearms/Second Amendment issues?"

    My reason for asking is this: I was shocked and dismayed to find that the body with which I am currently affiliated is very anti-gun and, in fact, backs the UN treaty that is nothing but a gun grab. I won't, as yet, dissolve my association because of other, personal, considerations, but they will not get any financial support from me.

    Before anyone asks, yes, my pastor is very much aware of my feelings in this matter.
    Hi ' SFCRetired.'

    Mate, I am not a member of any church or affiliated with any group or people professing to be followers of Christ, ie, fundamental Christianity.

    What I can say is that I have studing the Bible, God's Holy Word, according to fundamental Christianity, for many years, mainly to try and disprove its authority. The more I studied the Bible, the more I am learning that it does have authority and it is mans instruction book on how to live life, handed down to mankind.

    Regarding self defence, Scriptures plainly state that any man falling down before the wicked, (Criminals) is a corrupt spring and more;

    " A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring." (Proverbs 25:26).

    Jesus Christ Himself told His followers to arm themselves against criminals. Now guns were not available in Christs day but the Roman Sword was. It was the weapon of choice in those day and this is what Jesus said to His followers.

    "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke 22:36).

    The apostle Peter was armed with a sword when Judas betrayed Jesus and He was quick to use it.

    "Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus." (John 18:10).

    Jesus never went into convulsions bearating Peter with anti self defence, "Oh we must rely on God the Father to protect us garbage? All Jesus said in simple words was, "put it away mate, now's not the time, I have to do what I have to do:

    "Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?" (John 18:11).

    Show your pastor these few Scriptures and let him ponder on them a while. Maybe He might start to consider the fact that God gave mankind free moral agency. Thats meaningfull in this respect. Some people obey the laws of the land, many others dont. Those who dont obey the law and wish to destroy freedom, to destroy law abiding citizens way of life, must reap the consequences of their actions. No where in the New Testament Scriptures which we live by, in all my years of study trying to disprove the Bible and aal its contents have I found one Scripture which states,

    God will surely protect and defend you and your family right now, if and when attacked by criminals.

    What He does say is that He will provide all believers any and all means of self defence. Its as straignt forward as that.

    Regards, Haz.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Haz.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    God can't be everywhere, that's why guns were invented!
    Hi 'Ruby'

    Fundamental Christianity teaches that God is everywhere, ie. He is omnipresent? According to my years of studying the Bible, it teaches that He is not everywhere at the same time.

    And when I provide fundamental Christianities proponents with the Scriptures to show them that God has a body, soul and spirit, and He is in fact at one time and place just as anyone else with a body soul and spirit, they usually freak out and the only thing they can come up with is that I must be a heretic, Lol.

    God also, according to Scripture, instituted the death penalty in a covenant with Moses. Many anti gunners and anti D.penalty people who use God as an excuse to ban the death penalty, "Thou shalt not kill," dont like to talk about this either????? Lol. Though shalt not kill is a law, but God isntituted another law for those who do ignore, "Thou shaltnot kill." ie. Murder, not accidently kill, people.

    Haz.
    Last edited by Haz.; 10-21-2010 at 01:46 AM.

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    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    My wife asked, "Why buy a pistol when God is protecting us?"
    I answered, "Because, I want to give God more options."
    Last edited by DCKilla; 10-21-2010 at 03:39 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daddy4count View Post
    I currently do not subscribe to any religious affiliate... however I was raised in a Christian home where guns were not tolerated. We were taught to rely on God to protect us... owning a handgun would have spat in His face because it meant we did not have faith in Him to protect us from evil.
    Much the same could be said about seat belts, vaccinations, wearing sunblock, using eye and ear protection while operating that chainsaw, giving your kids swimming lessons, and not setting that plugged in radio on the side of one's bathtub.

    Eventually, failing to take reasonable measures to protect one's self against the dangers we face is a self-critiquing item of genetic elimination from the evolutionary gene pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by DCKilla View Post
    My wife asked, "Why buy a pistol when God is protecting us?"
    I answered, "Because, I want to give God more options."
    Good one! I've heard it as "God helps those who help themselves," and "God works in the lives of those who walk (not sit) in faith."
    Last edited by since9; 10-21-2010 at 04:58 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Reminds me of a joke I've heard a couple of times.

    There's a small town that, unfortunately, is located in the lowlands near a small river.

    One spring, it rains for several days in the surrounding area, building up the river more and more. Due to advances in technology and communications, the entire town is warned well over a day in advance that the river will rise to flood several homes. Of course, an evacuation is recommended for all citizens.

    Everyone in the town left, except for one little old lady who had lived in the town her entire life. When asked why she wouldn't leave, she said that the Lord would provide for her.

    Well, the river rose and her house got flooded. As she's piling up the sandbags around the door, someone comes by in a motorboat and sees her working, trying to keep the water out. He's been making the rounds checking houses, and now he's headed out of town when he spots her and offers her a ride. She refuses, again stating that the Lord would provide.

    Before much longer, the water was coming over the sandbags and eventually rose to the point that she could no longer stay in her house because it had flooded so much. It was at this point that she 'evacuated'-to her roof. She sat up on her roof for several hours, at which point a news chopper spotted her and called for a rescue team.

    The rescue helicopter showed up to pick her up. At this point, she refused to go, once again saying that the Lord would provide. The water continued to rise, and being the little old lady that she was, she was unable to swim to safety or tread water long enough, finally drowning.

    She got up to heaven, where she met God face to face.

    "Why didn't you provide for me, Lord?" she asked Him. "I had faith, but I don't understand."

    "I did," said the Lord. "I sent you an evacuation notice, a boat, and a helicopter. You only had to pick one."

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    The religion I was raised in, and if pressed to declare to some functionary, by its doctrines and teachings not only supports but commands the use of arms for defense of self and what used to be the religious body.

    In spite of thousands of years of history showing the continuing need for being armed for defense of self and the religious body, there are hundreds of years of "current" (not refuted by the majority of adherents) unofficial policy to not be armed and to trust in the good will of mankind. That was one of the reasons for my stopping being a participating member of the religion.

    As was mentioned above, the Lord provides the ways and means of accomplishing His desires. It's up to me to recognize them and learn how to use them.

    stay safe.

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    My last Church was Methodist. And I was quite disappointed to find out the official stance is quite anti gun. However, they regularly had mens retreats at the local wildlife club that included skeet and rifle shooting, and one time had the STAR team out their with full autos and such. The men's group I attended briefly could not have been much safer, 3 out of 4 of us were armed.

    My current church is Baptist. They seem quite pro gun, but I can't place the official position right now. What I can say is that individual Churches are pretty autonomous. But considering that the youth group has a skeet shoot coming up soon. And the Pastor said, from the pulpit last Sunday, "That any man that would hand his wife the gun and tell her to go check out a noise in the middle of the night is no real man." Well, I think I have my answer. If anyone is wondering, he was talking about a man being willing to lay down his life for his wife. It was part of a sermon on family issues.

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    I was raised in the United Methodist Church (although I'm no longer affiliated). The UC has the OFFICIAL policy that they are gainst ALL firearms. They even sent a representative to testify last year in MD AGAINST HB-52 (the only "nay" testimony, BTW, aside from the MSP...)

    My current religious affiliation doesn't take an official stand one way or the other--they let the individual decide what he or she wants to do.
    I have it on good authority that the United Methodist Church is totally in the tank with the Obama administration and the "Social Justice" is their watchword. I also was raised in the UMC but have since gone non-denominational Christian. My Pastor is not only OK with me CC in the church but basically asked me if I would. As soon as I become what's in the works for me I will. About to have a career change
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member Tricorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    I am a Deist, I believe that the Creator granted me certain unalienable rights.
    +1

    God gave us reason, not religion.

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    Regular Member Haz.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricorn View Post
    +1

    God gave us reason, not religion.
    Well said.

    From what read in the Bible it is written that every human being has a body, soul, and spirit.

    Scriptures teach that the soul is that invisible part of all living beings that feels, the seat of his affections, emotions, passions, and desires, and which gives him self-consciousness and makes him a sentient being (Lev. 23:43; 1 Sam. 22;2; 30:6; 2 Sam. 13:39; 2 Kings 4:27; 23:3; Ps. 107:5, 9, 18, 26; Mark 12:33; Matt. 26:38; John 12:27; Heb. 10: 38; Heb. 4:12).

    With all these God created passions, emotions and desires and the fact that we are self-conscious sentient beings, somewhere in all that is the natural act of self preservation. Only a fool would place their hand in a raging furnace, or jump off a high building to experience flying whilst praying that his God will protect him from harm. Haz.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haz. View Post
    Well said.

    From what read in the Bible it is written that every human being has a body, soul, and spirit.

    Scriptures teach that the soul is that invisible part of all living beings that feels, the seat of his affections, emotions, passions, and desires, and which gives him self-consciousness and makes him a sentient being (Lev. 23:43; 1 Sam. 22;2; 30:6; 2 Sam. 13:39; 2 Kings 4:27; 23:3; Ps. 107:5, 9, 18, 26; Mark 12:33; Matt. 26:38; John 12:27; Heb. 10: 38; Heb. 4:12).

    With all these God created passions, emotions and desires and the fact that we are self-conscious sentient beings, somewhere in all that is the natural act of self preservation. Only a fool would place their hand in a raging furnace, or jump off a high building to experience flying whilst praying that his God will protect him from harm. Haz.
    Right on the money, Haz. "For it is written, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God".

    I attend the church I do because they have an excellent English as a second language program for my wife. They also have an excellent ministry for those of her ethnic background. I will not make her unhappy by refusing to attend with her, but I will refuse any sort of financial support.

    My next step is to send a letter to the governing body with a copy to my pastor explaining why I will no longer contribute any support.

    For all who responded to my basic question: Thank you. You have given me even more to think about.

    Haz, when are you going to come to the States?

  24. #24
    Regular Member Haz.'s Avatar
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    Hi 'SFCRetired.'

    I wish I was there now. I would be there to-morrow if it was possible. I have many grandchildren and my dear wife now has to have both her knees replaced. (Arthritus). She will need to recover from that, but as soon as my wife gets over this and my littles are flying on their own I will be there. Kind regards, Haz.

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    Regular Member dukenukum's Avatar
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    My Denomination is pro gun, My Church is pro gun lean to fudd but not to much.

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