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Thread: I don't understand...

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    I don't understand...

    So I noticed the thread tacked at the top of this forum, "Stores who infringe upon our rights."

    How are they infringing by denying open carry? Don't they have a property right? If they don't want OC and someone OC's, isn't the OCer infringing on their property rights?

    Maybe I'm missing something...


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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    My personal thoughts only:

    I own a grocery store. I place a sign out front, no Jews, no Blacks, no Gays, no Democrats, no Guns.

    Now all EXCEPT "no Guns" is already illegal.

    When a business opens its door to the public, then it (the business) surrenders many of the private property rights.

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    Yes, property owners do have the ability to refuse to allow armed people into their stores.
    The meaning of the thread is so people know which stores do not allow legally armed citizens into their establishments so they will not patronize them.

    Basically it means "You disallow me to legally carry a firearm, I will not spend money in your establishment"
    Fair is fair, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bnhcomputing View Post
    My personal thoughts only:

    I own a grocery store. I place a sign out front, no Jews, no Blacks, no Gays, no Democrats, no Guns.

    Now all EXCEPT "no Guns" is already illegal.

    When a business opens its door to the public, then it (the business) surrenders many of the private property rights.
    they should be able to hang whatever sign they want

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    Quote Originally Posted by bnhcomputing View Post
    My personal thoughts only:

    I own a grocery store. I place a sign out front, no Jews, no Blacks, no Gays, no Democrats, no Guns.

    Now all EXCEPT "no Guns" is already illegal.

    When a business opens its door to the public, then it (the business) surrenders many of the private property rights.
    It's not illegal to ban "Democrats" from a store in Wisconsin as a whole. It is in Madison, however.
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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Not according to the courts. Part of the civil rights act was: The Civil Rights Act of 1964: Title II - Public Accommodation.

    Those who carry ARE a minority, we just don't have protected status YET. We will because of places like those listed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bnhcomputing View Post
    My personal thoughts only:

    I own a grocery store. I place a sign out front, no Jews, no Blacks, no Gays, no Democrats, no Guns.

    Now all EXCEPT "no Guns" is already illegal.

    When a business opens its door to the public, then it (the business) surrenders many of the private property rights.
    But it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of skin color, gender, religion, etc. It is not illegal to discriminate on the basis of firearms (for now).

    So while I get what you're saying, it still doesn't make legal sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bnhcomputing View Post
    My personal thoughts only:

    I own a grocery store. I place a sign out front, no Jews, no Blacks, no Gays, no Democrats, no Guns.

    Now all EXCEPT "no Guns" is already illegal.

    When a business opens its door to the public, then it (the business) surrenders many of the private property rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nutczak View Post
    Yes, property owners do have the ability to refuse to allow armed people into their stores.
    The meaning of the thread is so people know which stores do not allow legally armed citizens into their establishments so they will not patronize them.

    Basically it means "You disallow me to legally carry a firearm, I will not spend money in your establishment"
    Fair is fair, right?
    Yes, fair is fair: certainly no denying that. I understand the purpose of the thread and have NO objection on that basis.

    The title is simply misleading given the status of the law, that's all.

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    You should be able to say who goes into your property, protected status is hogwash.

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    The federal public accommodations law make it illegal for a business to discriminate based on race, color, religion, or national origin. The ADA makes it illegal to discriminate based on disability--- perhaps Democrats can claim that basis.

    The state law adds sexual orientation. Age is usually covered with a couple of exceptions.

    Madison's public accommodations ordinance covers race, sex, religion, color, national origin/ancestry, age, handicap/disability, marital status, source of income, arrest record,conviction record, less than honorable discharge, physical appearance, sexual orientation, political beliefs, familial status, domestic partners, disclosure of social security numbers, and the fact that such person is a student.
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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    The federal public accommodations law make it illegal for a business to discriminate based on race, color, religion, or national origin. The ADA makes it illegal to discriminate based on disability--- perhaps Democrats can claim that basis.

    The state law adds sexual orientation. Age is usually covered with a couple of exceptions.

    Madison's public accommodations ordinance covers race, sex, religion, color, national origin/ancestry, age, handicap/disability, marital status, source of income, arrest record,conviction record, less than honorable discharge, physical appearance, sexual orientation, political beliefs, familial status, domestic partners, disclosure of social security numbers, and the fact that such person is a student.
    So when LEO informs some business that they can put up a "no guns" sign, that would be false.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bnhcomputing View Post
    So when LEO informs some business that they can put up a "no guns" sign, that would be false.
    It is a little weird that in Madison they can't refuse service to a felon but they can refuse service to a law-abiding person who is exercising their constitutionally protected right to bear arms.
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    Regular Member GlockRDH's Avatar
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    Hey Shotgun...why dont you and I go into Willie Street Co-op...see how we are appreciated there!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SprayAndPray View Post
    they should be able to hang whatever sign they want
    I couldn't agree with that more, unless it's a needed utility, business owners should be allowed to discriminate. While I personally don't think that discrimination is a good thing I do believe government stepping in to tell a company who they have to allow into their business is one step off from government telling us who we have to allow into our homes.

    When it comes down to the situation, the people should rely on their moral compass and guidance from God - not the overbearing oversight of bureaucrats and lawyers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Springfielddx40 View Post
    You should be able to say who goes into your property, protected status is hogwash.
    So your saying that If I own a business I should legally be able to to refuse entry to Hispanics or African Americans?

    That means anyone in this forum who is an advocate for CCW, permits and fees should be kicked out, banned, removed!
    Last edited by J.Gleason; 10-20-2010 at 09:08 AM.

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    My GF and I did Trader Joes and the Whole Foods Market last year without incident except for a bit of media attention.

    "Uninfringed" in the 2A context does NOT mean you can carry anywhere at anytime so the whole thread is off kilter from the start.

    If so, why don't some of you people who are so up-in-arms about the gubmint infringing rights start griping that they can tell you to accept business from any race or religion, etc.? Thats a HUGE "infringement", right?
    Last edited by Spartacus; 10-20-2010 at 09:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Springfielddx40 View Post
    You should be able to say who goes into your property, protected status is hogwash.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    So your saying that If I own a business I should legally be able to to refuse entry to Hispanics or African Americans?

    That means anyone in this forum who is an advocate for CCW, permits and fees should be kicked out, banned, removed!
    I'm going to agree with Springfield.

    Sure, you should be able to refuse entry to anyone you dang well please. It's your property. Although some people don't see it because it benifits them, protected status is just another government intrusion on our rights.

    That being said, I don't advocate discrimination based on someones race, gender, or orientation at all and it would be stupid for a buisness owner to refuse entry to paying customers in this day and age. Discrimination has become socially and morally unacceptable to most in the country and you wouldn't be in buisness long; however, it's not the goverments place to tell you who can be on your property.
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    Don't miss this one http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...Zero-Tolerence on the failure to discriminate good from evil.
    Last edited by Doug Huffman; 10-20-2010 at 09:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    My GF and I did Trader Joes and the Whole Foods Market last year without incident except for a bit of media attention.

    "Uninfringed" in the 2A context does NOT mean you can carry anywhere at anytime so the whole thread is off kilter from the start.

    If so, why don't some of you people who are so up-in-arms about the gubmint infringing rights start griping that they can tell you to accept business from any race or religion, etc.? Thats a HUGE "infringement", right?
    I'm not sure what "gubmint" means since it's a ridiculous made up word, but if you'd bother to read the thread, a lot of people have, in fact, been saying that the businesses should not be prohibited from declining service to whomever they choose.

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    It was as late as the 1950's that there were signs still posted outside businesses that said, "Help wanted, No Blacks or Irish Need Apply"
    I might remind everyone that we have moved passed those days. Oh and by the way it was the Irish that helped make this country what it is today. Years ago, during the great migration many here wouldn't hire African Americanes but they would hire Irish and that is how the train tracks were laid, mines were dug and any other 5hit work that White Americans did not want to do was done. Ever hear of the story of Duffy's Cut? Where the Irish accomplished a job that no one else could and then they were murdered so they didn't have to be paid. The whole thing was covered up by the railroad.
    Do we really want to get into this?
    Gun Control came about because the White american was trying to keep the African Americanes from arming themselves for self defense.
    White Americans stopped hiring Irish because they did not like it because the Irish were getting credit for the progress in America. In fact both the Irish and the African American's should get much of the credit.
    This is about firearms. Let's keep it that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Don View Post
    I'm not sure what "gubmint" means since it's a ridiculous made up word, but if you'd bother to read the thread, a lot of people have, in fact, been saying that the businesses should not be prohibited from declining service to whomever they choose.
    There are a few people here that say they object to government(is that better?) infringements on the rights of businesses to refuse service, but they only get hot under the collar when considering gun "infringements".

    It seems hypocritical to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    There are a few people here that say they object to government(is that better?) infringements on the rights of businesses to refuse service, but they only get hot under the collar when considering gun "infringements".

    It seems hypocritical to me.
    Holy crap!

    I actually agree with Spartacus........

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    Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
    Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
    Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Don View Post
    I'm not sure what "gubmint" means since it's a ridiculous made up word, but if you'd bother to read the thread, a lot of people have, in fact, been saying that the businesses should not be prohibited from declining service to whomever they choose.
    The word "Gubmint" is used to poke fun of the way that many African Americans pronounce words years ago.
    It would seem that while some here are losing ground on their personal attacks due to the fact that the other members no longer pay attention to them, they have to resort to the racial biases in an effort to keep up their harassment of others. Seems the "all knowing" doesn't know that there are some African American, Irish, Hispanic and other cultural members here as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    The word "Gubmint" is used to poke fun of the way that many African Americans pronounce words years ago.
    It would seem that while some here are losing ground on their personal attacks due to the fact that the other members no longer pay attention to them, they have to resort to the racial biases in an effort to keep up their harassment of others. Seems the "all knowing" doesn't know that there are some African American, Irish, Hispanic and other cultural members here as well.
    According to the liberals, everyone on this board is an angry white male. You mean the lefties are wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by anmut View Post
    According to the liberals, everyone on this board is an angry white male. You mean the lefties are wrong?
    Lefties works as well!

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