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Thread: Ok, folks, we have a ringer

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Ok, folks, we have a ringer

    I don't know who/what he/she's about, but it's clear they're willing to press our buttons, so PLEASE!!! Please let us respond in simple, factual, non-inflamatory common-sense responses as to both our Constitutional as well as our practical reasons as to why we carry firearms.

    It's the "reality of the situation" which I think bears more weight than any other.

    So please, tone things down, but lay it out very simply (so the masses may understand it), here.

    PLEASE tread lightly! I've great inroads, here. I don't want to be banned!!! This is not an opportunity for a full cannonade! Just a concerted effort against any illogic which you might spot. You're smart people, as smart as they are, so please speak up. Just back up your statements.

    Thanks.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  2. #2
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    They left ONE reason out. Their president is a marxist, socialist, and surrounds himself with communists.

  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Mind reading, future crime predictors= future crime control, big brother syndrom - just any pseudo babble attack on the RKBA based on suitability and false probability.

    I don't play that game with basement bloggers.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  4. #4
    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
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    Anti-gunners are so frustrating.

    The logic in that post was that a person should have to go through a battery of background checks into their finances, relationships, and social life to determine if they are depressed and going to commit suicide before being allowed to purchase a firearm.

    What planet are these people on? If a suicidal person can't get a gun, they'll sit in their car while running in the garage, or jump off a bridge, or hang themselves. Why do people assume that the ONLY way a person can die is by using a gun? Maybe we should have the same test for buying bleach, rat poison, kitchen knives, or anything else we could possibly hurt ourselves with.....

    These arguments were made by many people, as well as a few other good ones. The anti-gunners simply stuck their fingers in their ears and went "La la la, I can't hear you!" and then asked why pro-gunners always make lame excuses. Then the post was locked to prevent any more opinions after a barrage of anti's spewed two pages of nonsense that we no longer have the opportunity to rebuttle.

    Un-friggin-believable. I don't think I'm even going to try talking to these blockheads anymore.
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Huck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frommycolddeadhands View Post
    The logic in that post was that a person should have to go through a battery of background checks into their finances, relationships, and social life to determine if they are depressed and going to commit suicide before being allowed to purchase a firearm.

    What planet are these people on? If a suicidal person can't get a gun, they'll sit in their car while running in the garage, or jump off a bridge, or hang themselves. Why do people assume that the ONLY way a person can die is by using a gun? Maybe we should have the same test for buying bleach, rat poison, kitchen knives, or anything else we could possibly hurt ourselves with.....

    These arguments were made by many people, as well as a few other good ones. The anti-gunners simply stuck their fingers in their ears and went "La la la, I can't hear you!" and then asked why pro-gunners always make lame excuses. Then the post was locked to prevent any more opinions after a barrage of anti's spewed two pages of nonsense that we no longer have the opportunity to rebuttle.

    Un-friggin-believable. I don't think I'm even going to try talking to these blockheads anymore.
    You cant reason with libs, period. They dont want to hear anything that counters what they want to believe. You'd do just as good trying to reason with a fencepost.
    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck View Post
    You cant reason with libs, period. They dont want to hear anything that counters what they want to believe. You'd do just as good trying to reason with a fencepost.
    There are some on both sides of the political spectrum with whom you cannot reason. Look at what they say. Is it driven by emotion or by ration? If it is driven by emotion, there is no reasoning, regardless of political bent.

    The advantage of ration is that it usually ends up supporting Liberty.

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    There are some on both sides of the political spectrum with whom you cannot reason. Look at what they say. Is it driven by emotion or by ration? If it is driven by emotion, there is no reasoning, regardless of political bent.

    The advantage of ration is that it usually ends up supporting Liberty.
    Not meaning to give you a "ration of ...." but I think you mean "rational thought."
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Not meaning to give you a "ration of ...." but I think you mean "rational thought."
    Actually, I meant "ration." I have to explain this from time to time, since the use is archaic. "Ration" is a root for "rational," just as "emotion" is a root of "emotional." However that use of the words fell out of favor hundreds of years ago. I prefer it to "reason" because it allows me to play use the relationship between the adjectives "rational" and "emotional" to highlight the relationship between "ration" and "emotion."

    In short, ration:emotion::rational:emotional.

    Although, admittedly, I am trying to disarchaicify the word.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    SNIP Actually, I meant "ration." I have to explain this from time to time, since the use is archaic.
    Oh, then Grapeshot should be the last person for whom you would need to explain it.


  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by eye95
    SNIP Actually, I meant "ration." I have to explain this from time to time, since the use is archaic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Oh, then Grapeshot should be the last person for whom you would need to explain it.

    Is someone helping you with your lessons now?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Actually, I meant "ration." I have to explain this from time to time, since the use is archaic...
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Oh, then Grapeshot should be the last person for whom you would need to explain it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Is someone helping you with your lessons now?
    Actually, I remember in the 1600's when the usage fell out of favor. I was creating posts, using my Gutenberg press, relating my dismay at the then-current trends in language evolution.
    Last edited by eye95; 10-30-2010 at 10:02 PM.

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by eye95
    Actually, I meant "ration." I have to explain this from time to time, since the use is archaic...
    Originally Posted by Citizen
    Oh, then Grapeshot should be the last person for whom you would need to explain it.
    Originally Posted by Grapeshot
    Is someone helping you with your lessons now?
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Actually, I remember in the 1600's when the usage fell out of favor. I was creating posts, using my Gutenberg press, relating my dismay at the then-current trends in language evolution.
    Begging your forgiveness Eye95. My imprecise "you" reference was intended for Citizen in that he did not show proper due form when addressing an elder of the clan.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Begging your forgiveness Eye95. My imprecise "you" reference was intended for Citizen in that he did not show proper due form when addressing an elder of the clan.
    Oh, I didn't think you were chastising me. I was just continuing the banter and expounding on my age. I appreciate that I was only around to use the Gutenberg Press. You probably assisted in its creation.


    ETA: Well, either you or Al Gore.
    Last edited by eye95; 10-30-2010 at 10:34 PM.

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Oh, I didn't think you were chastising me. I was just continuing the banter and expounding on my age. I appreciate that I was only around to use the Gutenberg Press. You probably assisted in its creation.
    Parchment and quill were my friends.

    Remember quite well the Palmer Method repetitious lessons.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    SNIP [Grapeshot] probably assisted in its creation.
    Lets just say we've seen him correcting historians about ancient Greek idioms.

  16. #16
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Lets just say we've seen him correcting historians about ancient Greek idioms.
    Guilty as charged.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  17. #17
    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    As per usual this thread got off course and became a discourse of which of you could be more sarcastic, but that's to be expected.

    In my opinion this fella that wrote this crap was actually wanting all gun owners to get a security clearance such as the like I just went through,,,Again to be a security officer. A PHP program if you will. This is ludicrous to expect. This fella needs to learn how to research to find out how many deaths occur from guns in what manner and of course needs to be set on the correct path to find those links. Because the Brady bunch will tell him gang-bangers under the age of 21 are "child homicides"
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    ...I remember in the 1600's...
    Your new name is Methuselah.

    :-P

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    (sigh)

    I'm not pleased at the outcome. Even though I'm aware Maes' vote wouldn't have turned the tied, it was very close (but NOT for Maes) and I view his continued participation in the race as a ridiculously selfish political act contrary to the the principles upon which any candidate in his shoes might stand.

    ...........--Moderator Edited--

    Unnecessary rant not in keeping with principles of OCDO.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Hopefully, this very pro-2A post will survive! More:

    My Political History professor discussed the issues associated with split votes. Among them he mentioned that the effects of split votes were greater than was readily apparent by the percentage of votes garnered themselves. Specifically, he discussed the additional reduction in votes caused by split funding, i.e., funding going to an obviously loosing candidate when the funding could have gone to the candidate who only narrowly lost the vote. It was his contention that this funding would often have resulted in a narrow win, vs a narrow loss, had the vote not been split.

    The point of this is that our 2A freedoms and rights here at stake. Two candidates for Colorado governor made pro-gun promises, but when one of them was faced with obvious defeat, he refused to bow out and help the other.

    And that's the third point my Political History professor mentioned: The psychosocial synergistic effect gained when a loosing candidate rallies behind a competitive one; or, the same effect lost when a loosing candidate refuses to give up the race.

    This is not a bash on any of the candidates. It's a group dynamics 101 discussion as to how to win the next time, particularly if we have two pro-gun candidates.

    These are lessons to be learned, lessons we can take with us to the next fight, so that instead of just gaining in our state's Congress, we can gain the governor's seat as well.

    As I said at the beginning, "Hopefully, this very pro-2A post will survive!"

    And hopefully, it will.
    Last edited by since9; 11-04-2010 at 10:09 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Hopefully, this very pro-2A post will survive! More:

    My Political History professor discussed the issues associated with split votes. Among them he mentioned that the effects of split votes were greater than was readily apparent by the percentage of votes garnered themselves. Specifically, he discussed the additional reduction in votes caused by split funding, i.e., funding going to an obviously loosing candidate when the funding could have gone to the candidate who only narrowly lost the vote. It was his contention that this funding would often have resulted in a narrow win, vs a narrow loss, had the vote not been split.

    The point of this is that our 2A freedoms and rights here at stake. Two candidates for Colorado governor made pro-gun promises, but when one of them was faced with obvious defeat, he refused to bow out and help the other.

    And that's the third point my Political History professor mentioned: The psychosocial synergistic effect gained when a loosing candidate rallies behind a competitive one; or, the same effect lost when a loosing candidate refuses to give up the race.

    This is not a bash on any of the candidates. It's a group dynamics 101 discussion as to how to win the next time, particularly if we have two pro-gun candidates.

    These are lessons to be learned, lessons we can take with us to the next fight, so that instead of just gaining in our state's Congress, we can gain the governor's seat as well.

    As I said at the beginning, "Hopefully, this very pro-2A post will survive!"

    And hopefully, it will.
    +1

    Well said.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  22. #22
    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    My first thought is that mayhaps our moderator is becoming a wee bit heavy handed in his editing of posts. While I subject myself to his will I will not be abused in the 1st Amendment as I pontificate on the 2nd. I did not get to read the "RANT" of my good friend since9 but can only imagine as to what was said. So allow me my "rant" as it were.
    In truth the 3rd party candidate will pull votes from the major two party members running for the same office. Sometimes it's a good thing. But mostly as in the case of the Alaska race for senator it's not going to turn out as we the people desire. This is due to some of the main stream candidates who are only in it for the power. The "tea party" endorsee's did great. And the lamestream media can only harp on the fact that we conservatives did not take control of the Senate. However there's 680 Dems in state houses that will now be private citizens. We have one more upcoming race to run. It's to make Barack Hussein Obama a one term President, (altho' I'd personally love to see him brought up for Impeachment, based on his attacks on the Constitution.) His use of foreign contributions to his campaign and overruling of a Federal Judges overruling of the ban on drilling in the gulf. So evebn tho' I personally know in my heart that the re-election of Harry Reid and some others was only contrived by hook and crook, I know that every little pinhead always get's their comeuppance,,,always.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    My first thought is that mayhaps our moderator is becoming a wee bit heavy handed in his editing of posts. While I subject myself to his will I will not be abused in the 1st Amendment as I pontificate on the 2nd. [ ... ]
    LOL Yes indeedy. Remember the movie "Wag the Dog"? Who here is wagging who's which?

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