Attempted Carjacking - Detroit

It amazes me how many scumbags who make a "living" off the streets either lives with mommy or some woman with no self-worth, are too lazy to get a real job and they do nothing to better their community. Its amazing that when something happens to the pukebag, like getting shot from trying to car-jack someone, Mommy, the little woman and all the Aunties come out of the woodwork and say how much of a wonderful guy this piece of excrement was and and how he did not deserve what happened to him and demand justice!

I dont know who this slug in detroit lived with, but for me, he got justice! He threw the dice when he walked up to that car last week, this time, he lost bigtime! Notch one up for the good guys!

The talk about a lawsuit makes me want to gag!

I don't understand why the life style of the guy who defended himself and other innocents from a carjacker has anything to do with anything. Quite frankly, for me anyway, the only thing that is of import is who attacked who and who defended from the attack.

Who has a girlfriend and a wife at the same time (whether the wife understands/doesn't understand, approves/disapproves, cares/doesn't care) is of no consequence, and perhaps most importantly... is none of my business nor do I have any right to judge!, nor does all that have any bearing on the simple fact that the man defended his life and the lives of two other innocents from a criminal who attacked them with a deadly weapon.

My personal opinion about who is doing what with whom is immaterial....... the law says (paraphrased).... deadly force is justified if a person reasonably believes themselves or others to be in imminent danger of great bodily harm, sexual penetration, or death.

Nothing is said about the person must first meet my personal opinion about their personal life.

So.. I guess I'm trying to say that, although the defender having both a wife and a girlfriend is a titillating juicy bit of over the back fence gossip, it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the fellow was justified in shooting in defense of lives.

autosurgeon said:

I too wonder why you would vary the grain and velocity and therefore the point of impact..

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Pistol fights occur at distances less than 50' -- most often less than 20'. In this distance the ballistics drop difference between two grains would be very negligible.

The reason I alternate between THESE two is because in my research I concluded these 2 cartridges performed best in expansion. I recognize each type of ammo has weaknesses. By alternating them, it is my effort to reduce the impact of any such weakness in one bullet by having the next shot be of the other kind, which may not have that same weakness.

I hope this helps you understand MY reasoning.

kryptonian said:

did anybody else see the update on this guy? was with his girlfriend cheating on his wife. this incident brought this relationship to light. the morality aside he is getting death threats from the dead robber's family and friends. that i find to be unbelievable. that scumbag car jacking-attempted murdering low life has supporters. UNBELIEVABLE!!! people that are going to kill you for revenge aren't going to call and stop by with threats. they'll just do it. this man is getting victimized even more. UNBELIEVABLE!!!

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The need, desire, or norm to avenge a fallen family member is common in many cultures throughout history -- think how Romeo and Juliette worked out. It matters not in term of these norms if the person killed caused the confrontation.

Why should our day be different?

TheQ said:

For the sake of discussing it, not judging one who defended himself and family, what alternatives existed in this scenario?

To me, it depends. Is my firearm on my person and attached to me or is it attached to/floating around the car?

If it's attached to me and goes where I go, I might be tempted to have my family and I leave the car and then call the cops.

If someone has you at drawn gunpoint and you have yet to draw or even attempt to draw...

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Thats when you have already decided that you would sacrifice your life to save your loved ones,with the understanding that you or they may very well be shot anyway.Never give the BG the choice to eliminate witnesses! Thats what I believe! Life is too sacred to worry about erant bullets when it's you and your loved ones or the BG! Thats what I believe! I would let God cover that part,after I've done my part!

Onnie said:

It amazes me how many scumbags who make a "living" off the streets either lives with mommy or some woman with no self-worth, are too lazy to get a real job and they do nothing to better their community. Its amazing that when something happens to the pukebag, like getting shot from trying to car-jack someone, Mommy, the little woman and all the Aunties come out of the woodwork and say how much of a wonderful guy this piece of excrement was and and how he did not deserve what happened to him and demand justice!

I dont know who this slug in detroit lived with, but for me, he got justice! He threw the dice when he walked up to that car last week, this time, he lost bigtime! Notch one up for the good guys!

The talk about a lawsuit makes me want to gag!

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like the malice green case in detroit. officers budzen and nevers were tried and convicted of his death by jurors who never listened to a minute of the testimony. there were murals painted at the sight and flowers and stuff put down. a few miles away a black state trooper was shot and killed in the line of duty and nobody put up so much as a cross on the spot. malice green was on meth at the time and resisted officers and reached for something under his seat. look who's the hero in that neighborhood.
a few months back when a detroit raid team serving a felony arrest warrant accidentally shot a little girl there was all kinds of outrage and of course lawsuits before she was even cold. not one bit of blame was put on the murdering fugitive they came in to get. police wouldn't have been there in the first place if he wasn't there.

chris rock said you get more respect coming out of jail than you do college. it's a whole backward loyalty structure i just don't understand.

TheQ said:

Pistol fights occur at distances less than 50' -- most often less than 20'. In this distance the ballistics drop difference between two grains would be very negligible.

The reason I alternate between THESE two is because in my research I concluded these 2 cartridges performed best in expansion. I recognize each type of ammo has weaknesses. By alternating them, it is my effort to reduce the impact of any such weakness in one bullet by having the next shot be of the other kind, which may not have that same weakness.

I hope this helps you understand MY reasoning.

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thanks

At no time is the victim in dire need of their CPL license than right after being attacked especially when said encounter results in the death of the criminal and where that criminal’s family is now threatening retribution. This man needs the ability to protect himself and his family more so than ever before.

If I am not mistaken the first thing the county does after a CPL licensee has been involved in a shooting is suspend their CPL until they determine whether it was a clean shooting. Whatever happened to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty? Wayne county needs to expedite the results of the shooting.

In our morally inverted world I can just see it now.... the criminal’s friends or family targets the man’s wife and children if they cannot get to him directly and perhaps may see it as more just to make him suffer by taking out someone close to him rather than him directly.

kryptonian said:

did anybody else see the update on this guy? was with his girlfriend cheating on his wife. this incident brought this relationship to light. the morality aside he is getting death threats from the dead robber's family and friends. that i find to be unbelievable. that scumbag car jacking-attempted murdering low life has supporters. UNBELIEVABLE!!! people that are going to kill you for revenge aren't going to call and stop by with threats. they'll just do it. this man is getting victimized even more. UNBELIEVABLE!!!

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its really not that hard to understand, the dirtball has a family. he's still a person with a mother, father, and friends. he was loved by some well liked by others. he strayed away from the human contract and committed an act of sheer stupidity/evil. the event is still traumatic to those who cared for said dirtbag, he was probably a carreer dirtbag and his friends/family got used to it, so when he made his last stupid choice and paid with his life (Finally,thankfully) they quite naturally feel hatred, pain, sadness, loss of a loved one.

like hangs out with like,,,so that the idea of threating the lawful man who only took life as a last resort is easy to follow also. he most likely hung out with other criminals, criminals like retribution. threats against the good man or even more likely about those whom he cares about most, is only a natural forgone conclusion:banghead:! who do criminals try to victimise?? the weak, or apparently weak, old people women, easy targets the unprotected!:uhoh:

for his dirtbag friends/family to single out those who are now vulnerable to attack the lawful mans family, and the lawful man who is now less able to defend himself/family, is a very short leap and could even be expected, anticipated probably even expected:cuss:. these people have been defending this criminal for a long time! its only natural to continue this pathetic behaviour after his violent death!

this dirtball got what he had coming. and the good man only did what he had to, given no other choice.

oh, snap.

http://detnews.com/article/20101021/METRO01/10210426/1409/rss36

•(8) KEEP IT ON-TOPIC: All gun rights discussions not directly related to open carry should take place in the "General Discussions" forum and topics that are not related to gun rights at all should take place in "The Lounge". Please police your own posts before posting them and help keep OCDO strong and focused.

I am curious who made you the moderator of the Michigan section T Vance?

autosurgeon said:

I am curious who made you the moderator of the Michigan section T Vance?

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We have been asked many times by John and Mike to be self-moderating - it lightens their load.

Why would anyone take offense at that?

so far everything has been on topic. and nothing has been said here that hasn't been said elsewhere on other threads, some of which have had worse comments. and we do moderate ourselves very well. imo

I agree.

Its the nature of things when threads stray a bit. Ideas, theory abd info gets brought up and hashed out, people learn valuable things this way, and points are brought up that need to be discussed. Often, new threads are created as a result, and as evidence of the validity of this natural process.

Grapeshot said:

We have been asked many times by John and Mike to be self-moderating - it lightens their load.

Why would anyone take offense at that?

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I can see hitting one thread but when one makes a big deal about 5 or 6 it starts to look like they are being a jerk... and or are pissed about something else and taking it out here.

Also there was nothing wrong with the education this thread brought as it is good to think about what we would do if we were OCing in this situation... we cannot rely on the criminal to notice our gun and not attack!

autosurgeon said:

I can see hitting one thread but when one makes a big deal about 5 or 6 it starts to look like they are being a jerk... and or are pissed about something else and taking it out here.

Also there was nothing wrong with the education this thread brought as it is good to think about what we would do if we were OCing in this situation... we cannot rely on the criminal to notice our gun and not attack!

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agreed. gun related news stories have consistently been discussed here in the past, and in my opinion should continue to be. these are the kind of things that could have an effect on gun rights and OC.

autosurgeon said:

I can see hitting one thread but when one makes a big deal about 5 or 6 it starts to look like they are being a jerk... and or are pissed about something else and taking it out here.

Also there was nothing wrong with the education this thread brought as it is good to think about what we would do if we were OCing in this situation... we cannot rely on the criminal to notice our gun and not attack!

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Nope, just trying to get everyone else to follow the rules just like I have to.

•(8) KEEP IT ON-TOPIC: All gun rights discussions not directly related to open carry should take place in the "General Discussions" forum and topics that are not related to gun rights at all should take place in "The Lounge". Please police your own posts before posting them and help keep OCDO strong and focused.

T Vance said:

Nope, just trying to get everyone else to follow the rules just like I have to.

•(8) KEEP IT ON-TOPIC: All gun rights discussions not directly related to open carry should take place in the "General Discussions" forum and topics that are not related to gun rights at all should take place in "The Lounge". Please police your own posts before posting them and help keep OCDO strong and focused.

Click to expand...

Everything is a matter of degree.

When lines are crossed/rules violated in an egregious manner and/or the mods don't catch it, then reporting it is a prudent step. Learning to differentiate the blatant/overt post from the more sublime is not difficult. Indeed we have the history of how these were handled in the past to set the standard.

Not meaning to be contentious - there is no "I" in OCDO.

I'm betting it's because he had his for sale ad pulled.

Bronson