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Thread: Maybe (some of the) Madison PD is starting to get it

  1. #1
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    Maybe (some of the) Madison PD is starting to get it

    Yesterday my wife met a friend of her for lunch in one of the Rocky Rococo's in Madison.

    When she parked she noticed two unmarked squad cars in the parking lot. She went in and sat down to wait for her friend. While she was waiting she noticed two plain clothes officers sitting at the table next to her.

    When one of them got up to refill his soda he noticed she was looking at his sidearm and said, "Don't worry Ma'am, I'm a police officer."

    She replied with, "Oh, I'm not worried, I was just wondering what you were carrying. I know Open Carry is legal."

    He said, "That's right, it is."

    I asked if he had a negative tone or anything when he said it, but she said he didn't.

    She was more disturbed that he called her "Ma'am" since she's only 30.

    Anyway, not that I'd expect an officer would confront a very obviously pregnant woman about it when she isn't carrying, but it seemed like a good interaction from what she described, just the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Don View Post
    Yesterday my wife met a friend of her for lunch in one of the Rocky Rococo's in Madison.

    When she parked she noticed two unmarked squad cars in the parking lot. She went in and sat down to wait for her friend. While she was waiting she noticed two plain clothes officers sitting at the table next to her.

    When one of them got up to refill his soda he noticed she was looking at his sidearm and said, "Don't worry Ma'am, I'm a police officer."

    She replied with, "Oh, I'm not worried, I was just wondering what you were carrying. I know Open Carry is legal."

    He said, "That's right, it is."

    I asked if he had a negative tone or anything when he said it, but she said he didn't.

    She was more disturbed that he called her "Ma'am" since she's only 30.

    Anyway, not that I'd expect an officer would confront a very obviously pregnant woman about it when she isn't carrying, but it seemed like a good interaction from what she described, just the same.

    She had NO WAY of knowing the information provided to her by the OC individual was valid, might have been a felon! She should have called 911 right away. Uniformed officers would have HAD to respond (8 of them). The policy stated to "cuff" so they would have to be cuffed, had their firearm seized, ID, then released AND don't forget the $400 DC tickets.

    This was an excellent opportunity to show the chief and the media how foolish the policy is......

    Oh well, maybe next time!

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I'm sure some of them do get it, but we unfortunately do not hear about them very often.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    I'm sure some of them do get it, but we unfortunately do not hear about them very often.
    Yeah. That's one of the reasons I wanted to post a (tangentially related) good encounter.

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    Regular Member TyGuy's Avatar
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    Calling 911 on them would have been funny, although I don't encourage it as I would think you might get in trouble for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TyGuy View Post
    Calling 911 on them would have been funny, although I don't encourage it as I would think you might get in trouble for it.
    I was thinking the same thing. Short of calling 911 it would have been ironic just to tell the guys: "Hey, how do I know you are a cop? How do I know you aren't a felon? Do you have some ID? If you don't let me see, I'm going to call the cops!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by TyGuy View Post
    Calling 911 on them would have been funny, although I don't encourage it as I would think you might get in trouble for it.
    How so ... did he show a badge? was he in uniform?

    Just cause someone says they are a cop dont mean sct....

    the totality of the circumstances (or whatevertthe hell they called it ) would have forced me to call the cops, to make sure he was a cop and not a felon impersonating a cop

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprayAndPray View Post
    the totality of the circumstances (or whatevertthe hell they called it ) would have forced me to call the cops, to make sure he was a cop and not a felon impersonating a cop
    And then mail them a DC ticket.

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    Don't forget Rockys also serves alcohol, so those those officer would have been in violation

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcav8r View Post
    Don't forget Rockys also serves alcohol, so those those officer would have been in violation
    Really? I haven't seen any beer there.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    My mechanic guru, JasonTDI is a half-mile from the Fitchburg Rococo's. He is pro-gun, pro-OC. While my VW is being serviced I stay at the Super-8 next door.

    I pretty much will not eat where beer, at least, is not sold. The Rococo's with which I am familiar definitely serves beer.
    Last edited by Doug Huffman; 10-20-2010 at 07:31 PM.

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    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    Yes unfortunately they do serve it. But yes, someone should have called 911 and told them you felt "uneasy" and uncomfortable with the situation. After all the chief did say that's what was we should do if we see a gun.
    Last edited by Motofixxer; 10-21-2010 at 07:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motofixxer View Post
    Yes unfortunately they do serve it.
    What do you mean "unfortunately?" I like beer!

    Based on the totality of the circumstances, someone should have reported those guys. Who says people can't be "disturbed" or "upset" of "fearful" of armed Polizei? I mean, geez, two guys minding their own business, eating pizza, with guns! Sounds so disturbing and not to mention an affront to community standards.
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    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    "Unfortunately"
    Meaning you have to jump through statutory hoops and disarm before you enter or ask permission to carry a means of protecting yourself while having dinner. Nothing implied about the consumption of a choice beverage. You can drink your favorite mix of Turpentine, Ammonia, and Methyl Ethyl Ketone for all I care. Your the one drinking it.
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  15. #15
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    to address the title of the thread; Madison PD will get it once they have to pay in a court of law, for not getting it.

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    Thanks for sharing this story Don.

    It brings up a couple of questions for me.

    First, if they didn't have a badge visible, then it demonstrates the ultimate hypocrisy of the Madison Police Department. EITHER open-carry doesn't cause a disturbance OR these plain-clothes officers would be (in the eyes of Chief Wray) guilty of disorderly conduct also.

    Of course we all know OC never causes a disturbance (and certainly even if it ever did once, that would be the exception, not the rule and "tends to cause a disturbance" would certainly not fit.)

    I digress.

    My second comment is I KNOW for a fact there are officers with the Madison Police Department who are very disturbed by the policy of their department and the treatment the Madison 5 received at Culvers.

    Unfortunately, given the culture inside police departments, when the rubber hits the road, even though there is a significant portion of police officers who completely support us in principle, their internal culture dictates that they support their fellow officers first and respect the law second.
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    I'll ask my wife if she they had their badges visible. I'm curious now.

    As for the second, yeah, I know of some officers in the MPD who do support OC, but then in the same breath they say the "Madison 5" should have just given up their IDs because/if they had nothing to hide since doing so "doesn't hurt anything".

    I'm working on them about that latter aspect of their attitude. So far, I'm having limited success, but I am generally making progress with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman View Post
    Of course we all know OC never causes a disturbance (and certainly even if it ever did once, that would be the exception, not the rule and "tends to cause a disturbance" would certainly not fit.)
    .
    Noooo! You used "never" again!

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, I don't think it will be possible to change the culture from within.


    When its an officers discretion whether to acknowledge your rights or not, I don't have confidence in the outcome.

    As McX has noted:

    Madison PD will get it once they have to pay in a court of law, for not getting it.
    Its time to create consequences. (hence all our lawsuits) Its the only way. I wish there were another way, but I no longer believe their is.

    Officers who follow the law will have no issue. Officers who do not will have consequences in court.
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