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Castle Doctrine in Michigan?

The Expert

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
118
Location
Taylor, Michigan, USA
I listen to the NRA News podcast and for a while there they were making a big deal about Castle Doctrine being passed in PA. I thought their obsession with this was strange at first, but on further thought I realized I had somehow come up with the idea in my own head that Castle Doctrine was in all states.

Then I started wondering if it is applicable in Michigan. Realized that I didn't know.

So what's is the rules on protecting yourself in your own home or on your own property? Do you have a right to stand and fight or not? I assume so...but you know what they say about assuming...
 

stainless1911

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Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
DEADLY FORCE IN MICHIGAN
The “CASTLE DOCTRINE” package of bills was signed into law on July 20, 2006.
The law became effective on October 1, 2006.
This law removes the duty to retreat from a violent attack. Individuals in Michigan, as in most states, have
always had the right to stand their ground and defend themselves with no duty to retreat when attacked inside
the four walls of their home. However, if attacked outside the four walls of their home, even if on their own
property (such as the backyard, detached garage, or a pole building), individuals in Michigan were required to
retreat from a violent attack if able to do so safely. As of October 1, 2006, there is no longer a “duty to retreat”
from a violent attack as long as the individual is in a place where they have a legal right to be and as long as
they are not engaged in illegal activity.
The “Use of Deadly Force” continuum still applies. The escalating degrees of force still apply to all situations
and the “Reasonable Man” standard is still used to evaluate an individual’s actions in a given circumstance.
This means that the following three valid reasons to use deadly force still apply to all situations:
1) Fear of Death.
2) Fear of Serious Bodily Injury.
3) Fear of Forcible Sexual Penetration.
In addition to these three reasons for the use of deadly force, the following three conditions must exist in order
for the use of deadly force to be justifiable:
1. Imminent - One of the three above listed reasons for the use of deadly force must be about to happen; it
cannot be something that will happen tomorrow or in a few weeks.
2. Intent - The attacker has to have demonstrated some sort of intent. This can be verbal or non-verbal. The
display of a weapon, verbal threats, or aggressive advances after being told to stay away are all indications of
intent.
3. Ability – The attacker has to have the ability to carry through with their intended attack. If someone says they
are going to shoot you, but have no firearm, then they do not have the ability to shoot you at that moment.
You still must act reasonably and apply the above principles of the use of deadly force.
Here is what this law does change. This law removes the duty to retreat anywhere that an individual has a legal
right to be provided that they are not engaged in illegal activity. If a person acts with reasonable force, up to and
including deadly force, then the prosecuting attorney must prove that the person acted unlawfully in order to
take the case to trial. This is a change from current procedure where a person who acts in self-defense must
prove that they acted lawfully after being charged and possibly taken to court. In addition, if a person cannot be
charged and convicted criminally, the new law provides that they cannot be prosecuted civilly. If for some
reason a civil case is allowed to proceed, the person who used justifiable self-defense shall be awarded court
and attorney’s fees.
This all means that you must still act in a reasonable manner. Your firearm should still be your “tool of last
resort” for self-defense. The emotional trauma and aftermath of shooting another human being will be
absolutely devastating. It should be avoided if at all possible. This law mitigates the aftermath so that a decision
made under the duress of defending oneself against a criminal does not destroy your life criminally or
financially.
You are encouraged to read these laws for yourself and evaluate them. For professional legal advice, you should
consult a lawyer familiar with firearms law and the use of deadly force in Michigan. The new laws are 2006 PA
309 and 2006 PA 313.
Above modified From: http://www.southsidesportsmanclub.com/stand-your-ground.html
SELF-DEFENSE ACT (EXCERPT)
Act 309 of 2006
780.972 Use of deadly force by individual not engaged in commission of crime; conditions.
Sec. 2.
(1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly
force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty
to retreat if either of the following applies:
(a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the
imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual.
(b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the
imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual.
(2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force
other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has
the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that
force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by
another individual. 2006, Act 309, Eff. Oct. 1, 2006.
 

The Expert

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
118
Location
Taylor, Michigan, USA
Autosurgeon, I assumed that as the Michigan Constitution confirms the right of any citizen to bear arms "for the defense of himself" that this concept of Castle Doctrine is incorporated into our lives at a basic level.

My thought would be that there would be no need for separate legislation "certifying" what is already in the State Constitution.

In fact, I'm surprised to find out that our right to keep an bear arms could ever not have extend to my own "pole barn" if my life was in imminent danger.

Either way, I do need to be in a constant state of learning, not just about this but a great many other things as well. For instance, much about my super-star wife still mystifies me even after 8 years of marriage.
 

Bailenforcer

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
We have a good Castle Doctrine law finally. I think it was passed in 2006?

It could be better but it is pretty good...


I listen to the NRA News podcast and for a while there they were making a big deal about Castle Doctrine being passed in PA. I thought their obsession with this was strange at first, but on further thought I realized I had somehow come up with the idea in my own head that Castle Doctrine was in all states.

Then I started wondering if it is applicable in Michigan. Realized that I didn't know.

So what's is the rules on protecting yourself in your own home or on your own property? Do you have a right to stand and fight or not? I assume so...but you know what they say about assuming...
 

Bailenforcer

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
My right to keep, bear arms and defense extends to anywhere I am...



Autosurgeon, I assumed that as the Michigan Constitution confirms the right of any citizen to bear arms "for the defense of himself" that this concept of Castle Doctrine is incorporated into our lives at a basic level.

My thought would be that there would be no need for separate legislation "certifying" what is already in the State Constitution.

In fact, I'm surprised to find out that our right to keep an bear arms could ever not have extend to my own "pole barn" if my life was in imminent danger.

Either way, I do need to be in a constant state of learning, not just about this but a great many other things as well. For instance, much about my super-star wife still mystifies me even after 8 years of marriage.
 

Bailenforcer

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
PA 313 is subtle: “Sec. 21c. (1) In cases in which section 2 of the self-defense act does not apply, the common law of this state applies except that the duty to retreat before using deadly force is not required if an individual is in his or her own dwelling or within the curtilage of that dwelling.”

The area, usually enclosed, encompassing the grounds and buildings immediately surrounding a home that is used in the daily activities of domestic life.

A garage, barn, smokehouse, chicken house, and garden are curtilage if their locations are reasonably near to the home. The determination of what constitutes curtilage is important for purposes of the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, which prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures of a person and of his or her home or property. Courts have construed the word home to include curtilage so that a person is protected against unlawful searches and seizures of his or her curtilage.


Despite the Michigan State Police redefining curtilage as in your home only, the legal definition stands.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/LegalUpdateaugust2002_41800_7.PDF

http://courts.michigan.gov/supremecourt/Clerk/April2002/118181-DefAppellant.pdf


The court held there is a tradition of no retreat and there is no duty to retreat when on ones own property. Even though the stated case was a poor representation of a self defense, it stands the prosecutor argued in a wrong manner, and the court maintained the general assumption that there is no duty to retreat contrary to the MSP update which contradicts the courts by using yet another poor example.

Historically curtilage is your property as a whole if you use it as a whole. And for me I do consider my property my home and I use it as such. And I will defend myself on my property without a duty to retreat as hold by many court decisions over the decades.



Autosurgeon, I assumed that as the Michigan Constitution confirms the right of any citizen to bear arms "for the defense of himself" that this concept of Castle Doctrine is incorporated into our lives at a basic level.

My thought would be that there would be no need for separate legislation "certifying" what is already in the State Constitution.

In fact, I'm surprised to find out that our right to keep an bear arms could ever not have extend to my own "pole barn" if my life was in imminent danger.

Either way, I do need to be in a constant state of learning, not just about this but a great many other things as well. For instance, much about my super-star wife still mystifies me even after 8 years of marriage.
 
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stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
This is a fine exsample of why our laws need to be stripped out, and rewritten. I turned 35 yesterday, and until this morning, I had never even heard of the word curtilage. That said, regular people really don't come to places like this to learn such things, and for that matter, neither do most gun owners.
 

Bailenforcer

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
It is an important legal term. It encompass's all property your home sits on. And it is in the castle doctrine laws.

Just a point and side note this was brought to my attention by a Detroit Police Officer who is pro open carry.

This is a fine example of why our laws need to be stripped out, and rewritten. I turned 35 yesterday, and until this morning, I had never even heard of the word curtilage. That said, regular people really don't come to places like this to learn such things, and for that matter, neither do most gun owners.
 

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
One of the better parts of the MI Self-Defense Act, was the protection for Civil Actions against someone acting in Self-Defense (when it was proven as "Justified").

The recent car-jacking in Detroit, I had heard that the perp's family was possibly going to sue the victim. If it is a "justified act of self-defense", the perp's family will not be able to proceed with that action.
 

Sefner

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
54
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
One of the better parts of the MI Self-Defense Act, was the protection for Civil Actions against someone acting in Self-Defense (when it was proven as "Justified").

The recent car-jacking in Detroit, I had heard that the perp's family was possibly going to sue the victim. If it is a "justified act of self-defense", the perp's family will not be able to proceed with that action.

+1 to this. MI is one of the few states that have this, and it's huge. Many a self-defense shooter have been sued into bankruptcy by the family of the "victim". If they aren't sued, it is very common for shooters to have personal protection orders issued against them by the family of the perp. Those familiar with gun laws know why this is bad: someone with a current PPO cannot own guns. This effectively allows the family of the perp to disarm the defense shooter. I know of no cases of the following happening, but the thug culture would see the shooter disarmed and possibly attempt to exact revenge knowing they are now disarmed. This cannot happen in MI.

Another interesting side effect of this is that the perp becomes criminally and civilly liable for any ill-effects of their illegal action. For instance, if two guys break into a house and the homeowner shoots and kills one in self defense, the other living perp is charged with murder since his illegal actions resulted in the death of someone else. We have yet to see the effects of injury to an innocent third party (say a guy breaks into a house, homeowner defends with a rifle, misses one of the shots and that shot penetrates and strikes the house across the street), but hopefully case law will be built that says that as long as the shooter does not act negligently (ie: firing warning shots) that the criminal will be liable for the injury to the innocent third party.
 

autosurgeon

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
3,831
Location
Lawrence, Michigan, United States
One of the better parts of the MI Self-Defense Act, was the protection for Civil Actions against someone acting in Self-Defense (when it was proven as "Justified").

The recent car-jacking in Detroit, I had heard that the perp's family was possibly going to sue the victim. If it is a "justified act of self-defense", the perp's family will not be able to proceed with that action.


Actually they can still sue you BUT if the reason is for a justified Homicide then the Judge will throw it out and award you legal fees from them... now whether they pay or not is another thing entirely.
 

Bailenforcer

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
Exactly!!!!

It is important that curtilage remain as it has historic and historic legal meaning and case law that defends our rights.

We do not change the color of traffic lights because someone is color blind, no more than we need to change words because people are stupid. And frankly the colorblind have a far greater argument.


Just BC the average person does not understand the term does not mean it should be changed.

Use a Dictionary!
 
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