Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 31

Thread: Our CPL and why I believe it should be recognized in all 50 states

  1. #1
    Regular Member SlowDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Redford, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    424

    Our CPL and why I believe it should be recognized in all 50 states

    OK....I am posting this because I have a question which brings me to an opinion on our CPL.
    According to the Constitution of the United States if we have a license from one state it must be recognized by all 50 states....ie marriage, business & drivers licenses. We have Concealed Pistol LICENSES. In my tiny mind this should mean it HAS to be recognized by all other states like my drivers license and my business license and also my marriage license.

    Could someone way smarter then this dumb old truck driver tell me why I am right or wrong....Thanks
    Only two have offered their lives for you. A Soldier and Jesus....

  2. #2
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    north mason county, Washington, USA
    Posts
    4,381

    uhhuh!

    under the privilege or immunities clause, or the equal protections clause, i have to agree!!
    national reciprocity is the only thing that makes any sense!
    another way to go is constitutional carry under the second amendment!
    how, why, where you carry should all be protected!
    the law for fire arms should only govern how, where, and why you shoot it!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    2,247
    Not true - There is some arguement on this but as far as I can tell, subject to rebuttal, that there is nothing in the Constitution or in Federal law that says that one state has to honor the drivers license or marriage license from another state. The gay marriage deal is a perfect example of this. Then you get into professional licenses such as lawyers or doctors, they have to be licenesed by each state individually.

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,614
    Quote Originally Posted by SlowDog View Post
    OK....I am posting this because I have a question which brings me to an opinion on our CPL.
    According to the Constitution of the United States if we have a license from one state it must be recognized by all 50 states....ie marriage, business & drivers licenses. We have Concealed Pistol LICENSES. In my tiny mind this should mean it HAS to be recognized by all other states like my drivers license and my business license and also my marriage license.

    Could someone way smarter then this dumb old truck driver tell me why I am right or wrong....Thanks
    While I would agree that the Constitution does reaffirm our RKBA, we have entered into "reasonable" restrictions and thereby permits.

    I much prefer voluntary reciprocity (states rights) as opposed to federally mandated recognition or a national permit system. What big government gives, it can take away, restrict or change.

    Point of interest - the last state to honor drivers licenses from other states was South Dakota (?) back in the 1920's. We now have federal laws effecting DLs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_License_Agreement
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Where did the idea of reasonable restrictions come from? Its not in the constitution that I know of.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    City
    Posts
    1,077
    Actually The United States Constitution does not require license. Those rights are granted by the Creator PERIOD!

    To license is to restrict rights. Yes if they decided you can't be licensed then they are taking your rights with NO just cause.

    So if we followed the law of the land we should be able to carry anywhere we see fit.



    Quote Originally Posted by SlowDog View Post
    OK....I am posting this because I have a question which brings me to an opinion on our CPL.
    According to the Constitution of the United States if we have a license from one state it must be recognized by all 50 states....ie marriage, business & drivers licenses. We have Concealed Pistol LICENSES. In my tiny mind this should mean it HAS to be recognized by all other states like my drivers license and my business license and also my marriage license.

    Could someone way smarter then this dumb old truck driver tell me why I am right or wrong....Thanks
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    City
    Posts
    1,077
    I think it was Karl Marx...


    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Where did the idea of reasonable restrictions come from? Its not in the constitution that I know of.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    City
    Posts
    1,077
    We disagree. I support the Constitution and the universal right to defend myself as I see fit, aka the RIGHT to keep and BEAR arms. Under this Law no state can restrict.



    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    While I would agree that the Constitution does reaffirm our RKBA, we have entered into "reasonable" restrictions and thereby permits.

    I much prefer voluntary reciprocity (states rights) as opposed to federally mandated recognition or a national permit system. What big government gives, it can take away, restrict or change.

    Point of interest - the last state to honor drivers licenses from other states was South Dakota (?) back in the 1920's. We now have federal laws effecting DLs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_License_Agreement
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    City
    Posts
    1,077
    But the Constitution gives a universal right to all citizens to carry. No matter where one is in this country.

    Plus Marriage laws are Unconstitutional as well. Marriage is a religious right and no Government should intervene and restrict that right I have to select that woman I choose to marry. Nor do they have the right to make me ask permission from Caesar aka a license. I find it unbelievably contradictory to demand I beg the Government to Marry, while the speak of religious freedoms.


    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    Not true - There is some argument on this but as far as I can tell, subject to rebuttal, that there is nothing in the Constitution or in Federal law that says that one state has to honor the drivers license or marriage license from another state. The gay marriage deal is a perfect example of this. Then you get into professional licenses such as lawyers or doctors, they have to be licensed by each state individually.
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 10-21-2010 at 01:01 PM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  10. #10
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Quote Originally Posted by SlowDog View Post
    OK....I am posting this because I have a question which brings me to an opinion on our CPL.
    According to the Constitution of the United States if we have a license from one state it must be recognized by all 50 states....ie marriage, business & drivers licenses. We have Concealed Pistol LICENSES. In my tiny mind this should mean it HAS to be recognized by all other states like my drivers license and my business license and also my marriage license.

    Could someone way smarter then this dumb old truck driver tell me why I am right or wrong....Thanks
    Here's the simple answer:

    Driver's Licenses aren't inherently recognized between states. Each State belongs to a compact (basically a treaty, but a treaty or agreement between states in the country, not between other countries) that says each state belonging to the compact shall recognize the drivers licenses of other states belonging to said compact.

    Businesses: A business is licensed in each individual state it does business in (ex: a physical/brick & mortar presence.

    For more read of the Constitution Clause you speak of read about the Full Faith and Credit Clause.

    Many states, such as Wisconsin, do not recognize any rate to carry a concealed weapon, even amongst their citizens. Surely, Michigan has no right to say to WI that you must allow our peeps to carry a concealed weapon when you don't allow your own peeps to do so. This would be like Nevada saying you must allow our licensed hookers to come practice in Michigan (not something I personally have a problem with, BTW).
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  11. #11
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336
    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    But the Constitution gives a universal right to all citizens to carry. No matter where one is in this country.

    Plus Marriage laws are Unconstitutional as well. Marriage is a religious right and no Government should intervene and restrict that right I have to select that woman I choose to marry. Nor do they have the right to make me ask permission from Caesar aka a license. I find it unbelievably contradictory to demand I beg the Government to Marry, while the speak of religious freedoms.
    Then you are gonna love this!

    In Michigan, pastors are required to take a specific amount of training prior to being licensed by The State Of Michigan to perform weddings and marry people! The State of Michigan has to "approve" a pastor's credentials!

    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-551-7

    http://www.ehow.com/list_6633200_mic...uirements.html

  12. #12
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    City
    Posts
    1,077
    More Nazism.



    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Then you are gonna love this!

    In Michigan, pastors are required to take a specific amount of training prior to being licensed by The State Of Michigan to perform weddings and marry people! The State of Michigan has to "approve" a pastor's credentials!

    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-551-7

    http://www.ehow.com/list_6633200_mic...uirements.html
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    I believe the second amendment reaffirms a 50 state right to carry. I have no problems with a state restricting CC, but when they restrict OC, CC becomes the constitutional option. With or without reciprocity agreements, I don't really care who recognizes CPL's. They are a part of an abusive state government.

    Anyway, about truckers, I have long believed you interstate guys should be given the opportunity to attain federal agent status on account of what the job entails. There is almost nothing a person reading this post can point to that wasn't taken across state lines by truckers. You guys have a dangerous and demanding job with the potential to encounter a lot of criminals who want a few hundred grand+ worth of cargo, sometimes extremely dangerous cargo and I fail to see why anyone on any side of gun rights would have an issue with qualified truckers having the right to do special programs to become federal agents in order to allow 50 state carry. I think it would make sense for the safety of both the public at large, and the truckers themselves.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    2,247
    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    I believe the second amendment reaffirms a 50 state right to carry. I have no problems with a state restricting CC, but when they restrict OC, CC becomes the constitutional option. With or without reciprocity agreements, I don't really care who recognizes CPL's. They are a part of an abusive state government.

    Anyway, about truckers, I have long believed you interstate guys should be given the opportunity to attain federal agent status on account of what the job entails. There is almost nothing a person reading this post can point to that wasn't taken across state lines by truckers. You guys have a dangerous and demanding job with the potential to encounter a lot of criminals who want a few hundred grand+ worth of cargo, sometimes extremely dangerous cargo and I fail to see why anyone on any side of gun rights would have an issue with qualified truckers having the right to do special programs to become federal agents in order to allow 50 state carry. I think it would make sense for the safety of both the public at large, and the truckers themselves.
    So you are saying make it part of the CDL. Actually not a bad idea. The CDL is a Federally controlled deal unlike a regular DL and states wouldn't have any control over it. Maybe you should get that going. Then if you get your CDL you would also have a universal CWP.

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Go for the CWP, not a CPL.

  16. #16
    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Clio, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    So you are saying make it part of the CDL. Actually not a bad idea. The CDL is a Federally controlled deal unlike a regular DL and states wouldn't have any control over it. Maybe you should get that going. Then if you get your CDL you would also have a universal CWP.
    I only have one question? So if you combine the licences and make it a fed. agancy then what do you do with all the truckers who are convicted felons???

    Mind you I like the idea but it would either put alot of truckers out of work or *crosses fingers* do away with the stupid notion that free people should be striped of God given rights???

  17. #17
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    warren, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,251

    Exclamation

    We need to eliminate all licensing and registration completely.It's all unconstitutional.Repeal the 1968 Gun Control act!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    We need to eliminate all licensing and registration completely.It's all unconstitutional.Repeal the 1968 Gun Control act!
    ^ what he said.

  19. #19
    Regular Member SlowDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Redford, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    424
    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    I believe the second amendment reaffirms a 50 state right to carry. I have no problems with a state restricting CC, but when they restrict OC, CC becomes the constitutional option. With or without reciprocity agreements, I don't really care who recognizes CPL's. They are a part of an abusive state government.

    Anyway, about truckers, I have long believed you interstate guys should be given the opportunity to attain federal agent status on account of what the job entails. There is almost nothing a person reading this post can point to that wasn't taken across state lines by truckers. You guys have a dangerous and demanding job with the potential to encounter a lot of criminals who want a few hundred grand+ worth of cargo, sometimes extremely dangerous cargo and I fail to see why anyone on any side of gun rights would have an issue with qualified truckers having the right to do special programs to become federal agents in order to allow 50 state carry. I think it would make sense for the safety of both the public at large, and the truckers themselves.
    There is nothing that stops me from carrying my weapon in my truck. I often have my pistol with me driving interstate. Where I can get in a bind and makes it hard to ALWAYS carry it with me is the ban on any weapons on federal/military installations.

    Also...every states laws are different so I always tell people if your gonna carry make sure you know the laws of the states your in. I believe the laws should be the same as per the 2a and that if I am entering a federal facility there should be a place to secure my weapon just like they do for visiting LEO's.....just sayin.
    Only two have offered their lives for you. A Soldier and Jesus....

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    If you're going to a Military base or whatever, where do you put it?

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,605
    The Federal Congress could compel every State to give Full Faith and Credit to Michigan CPL's, however; The Federal Congress chose not to do so under The Amendment 1618, sponsored by South Dakota Senator John Thune, and was known Officially as an Attachment to Senate Bill 1290, the National Defense Authorization Act of 2010.
    The United States Constitution Full Faith and Credit Clause can be found under Article VI, Section 1 of The United States Constitution.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,614
    Quote Originally Posted by SlowDog View Post
    snip......... . I believe the laws should be the same as per the 2a and that if I am entering a federal facility there should be a place to secure my weapon just like they do for visiting LEO's.....just sayin.
    Presume that you do not agree with being disarmed in/on federal facilities and are simply saying there should be a place to secure them on premises.

    Often wondered about potential LEO exception or special privilege regarding federal facilities - military bases, federal buildings et al. Do you have a cite?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Many people here continue to discuss the Full Faith and Credit portion of the Constitution... Read the first paragraph of Wikipedia on the topic (emphasis added):

    Full Faith and Credit Clause, the familiar name used to refer to Article IV, Section 1 of the United States Constitution, addresses the duties that states within the United States have to respect the "public acts, records, and judicial proceedings" of other states. According to the Supreme Court, there is a difference between the credit owed to laws (i.e. legislative measures and common law) as compared to the credit owed to judgments.[1] Judgments are generally entitled to greater respect than laws, in other states.[2] At present, it is widely agreed that this Clause of the Constitution has little impact on a court's choice of law decision,[3] although this Clause of the Constitution was once interpreted differently.[4]
    Please consider this before continuing your Full Faith and Credit arguments.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  24. #24
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Many people here continue to discuss the Full Faith and Credit portion of the Constitution... Read the first paragraph of Wikipedia on the topic (emphasis added):



    Please consider this before continuing your Full Faith and Credit arguments.
    If this is the case, and I had a judgement from a Michigan Court that I could carry a pistol concealed upon my person, would another state need to honor that?
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  25. #25
    Regular Member SlowDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Redford, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    424
    Years ago I used to carry <Stuff> for the Gov. to & from Nuclear Sub Bases and had a mossberg 12 gauge in a bracket up against the dash. When entering the facilities I would stow said weapon in a locker at the main gate and retrieve same as I left. It was very easy going so to speak. Since 9-11 they have become more strict in entering some of the more secure bases. Now I can't have a laptop, cellphone with camera, any and I do mean any type of weapon. Must have special back ground check with picture ID. They search my entire truck and trailer opening all the boxes and hood. So even if I wanted to hide a pistol they'd find it. Not worth the 10-15 years in Leavenworth.
    Only two have offered their lives for you. A Soldier and Jesus....

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •