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So businesses actually do not have the right to ban people from carrying afterall??

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Citizens' Rights to Public Accomodation vs Private Property Owners' Rights

The concept of "public accomodation" developed in response to discrimination based on race, sex, and religion. As you can read in the FindLaw article, found here:

"Federal law prohibits privately owned facilities that offer food, lodging, gasoline or entertainment to the public from discriminating on the basis of race, color, religion, or national origin."

Additionally, Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 extended the concept of "public accomodation" to people with disabilities, but in order to qualify, they must have a disability as defined by either statute.

Public accomodation has also long been held by the courts, including the Supreme Court to extend to matters involving the First Amendment's protection of free speech, as well as it's derivative derived in case law, freedom of expression. These extensions have not been carte blanche, however, and some restrictions remain. For example, while businesses cannot prohibit access to the girl with purple hair, or a guy with tatoos, certain businesses, such as a fine dining establishment, can require customers to wear "proper attire." Most golf courses prohibit jeans/denim, and require customers to wear a shirt with a collar, whle most pools prohibit cut-offs.

The reason these restrictions were allowed by the courts is that part of what these businesses offer their customers is a certain atmosphere, or ambience. Allowing unlimited extension of First Amendment rights under the concept of "public accomodation" erodes that ambience and undermines the business' livlihood. In cases of pools prohibiting cutoffs, it's more practical, as the strings from cut-offs tend to wrap themselves around pump shafts next to the seals, and destroy the seals.

Meanwhile, when it comes to Second Amendment issues, both statute and case law, again up to and including at the Supreme Court level, has upheld the rights of private property owners against tresspassing, including the restriction of 2A rights of others on their property, by acting commensurate with local and state laws, namely by simply posting a notice at the entrance or asking someone to leave.

Private property rights are the only thing that should supersede the constitution.

Nothing should supercede our Constitution, except for the only provision allowed by the Constitution itself: A properly ratified Amendment. There's a reason our Constitution is called "The Law of the Land."

Any attempt to undermine or supercede our Constitution by any other means, including case law (where judges can make rulings based more on their opinion instead of statute) opens wide the door for the erosion of the one document upon which our country rests, the cornerstone of our society. It opens wide the door to the erosion of our rights, which may be "superceded," for example, by a UN/EU-sponsored and US government-signed prohibition against handguns.

That is neither acceptable nor is it negotiable. Our Constitution must remain inviolate, as the Law of the Land.

If we the freedom driven minority manage to vastly lose sight of the fact that the founders wanted all rights to be property based, and for good reason, I hold little hope for the future generations, because it will be the final nail in the coffin of freedom when even we begin to have no issues with the government controlling private property. In falling for that nonsense, we would stand to rapidly sink into some socialist totalitarian system of big government with very few personal choices. We're close enough to there already.

We're in agreement, here!
 
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eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Private Property Rights > My Rights

While our Government thinks otherwise, I will still recognize this principle of Natural Law.

Private Property Rights ◄ My Rights

Read "◄" as "is a subset of." Actually, property rights are one of the two foundations of all other rights. The rights we cherish essentially exist to protect our lives and property from other people and from government.
 

Publius

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
67
Location
Northern California Now NH soon
Private Property Rights ◄ My Rights

Read "◄" as "is a subset of." Actually, property rights are one of the two foundations of all other rights. The rights we cherish essentially exist to protect our lives and property from other people and from government.

Right, which is want I was attempting to say only you said it better :)
 

OldCurlyWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
907
Location
Oklahoma
As I was the one who started this thread and I emphasize that I intended absolutely no friction or heated discussions but rather a take from a judge, I will offer my opinion on this issue.

I tend to defer to the rights of private individuals' property (businesses and otherwise), when doing just about anything (perhaps an exception or two). I was raised and taught to respect those things which people own and that respect for property naturally evolved into respecting other people. So while I see the judge's position, I would defer to the side of private property rights. Believe me, I do not wish to be the poster child for a trespassing test case while arguing there is nothing the owner can do to me.

While I tend to believe in business owner's rights to control their premises quite strongly, I also believe in my right to protect myself and family. In accordance with those beliefs I tell those business owners that I object to those policies and refuse to give them any monetary support whatsoever.

:cuss:
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
While I tend to believe in business owner's rights to control their premises quite strongly, I also believe in my right to protect myself and family. In accordance with those beliefs I tell those business owners that I object to those policies and refuse to give them any monetary support whatsoever.

:cuss:

And, that, sir, is precisely how Liberty should work for all!
 
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