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Thread: Police call--From Ponderosa incident in January 2010

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Police call--From Ponderosa incident in January 2010

    Attached is the audio of the non-emergency police call about a long gun OC at the Ponderosa at the end of January 2010. As you will hear the caller was not panicked and just wanted to clarify that long gun OC was lawful. Notice the operators responses to the questions. After the call is radio trafiic between 911 and some of the LEO's. The Tactical audio was not included in their FOIA response.

    This is posted because several people have asked to hear what the caller told the PD operator when he called in. I had to play it from the disc so I could record it with my digital recorder so I could then download it to a wave file. Thanks to Autosurgeon for downloading to this site. (I have trouble with computer stuff.)

    Pondarosa 911 call.mp3 - 11.68MB
    Last edited by autosurgeon; 10-21-2010 at 10:50 PM.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Bump for added audio file direct download!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member bandersnatch's Avatar
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    There's a couple new signature line possibilities:

    “Go ahead and have command come this way…we got a problem.”

    “The loud mouth of the group is in the black Suburban.”
    "Are you sure Hank done it this way?" - Waylon Jennings

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    Perhaps if someone didn't take this OC event to the extreme and bring a rifle, none of this would have ever happened. I think someone was looking for attention. Carrying a rifle vs. a holstered handgun draws a lot more attention. Again, this is just my opinion.

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    This is part of what made long gun carry a big deal. It caused a lot of discussion, some unnecessary bashing, and even a prohibition on long gun threads on this forum. I think the carriers heart was in the right place. This is, IMO, a simple case of too much of a good thing. Long gun carry isn't ripe for practice at this point, but it is a right that should be vigorously protected. It also played a huge part in getting the Lansing PD, among others, and many citizens educated on the subject of OC.

    Thanks OP for posting this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    Perhaps if someone didn't take this OC event to the extreme and bring a rifle, none of this would have ever happened. .
    As I've said before, it was the police OVER-reaction that caused this to become an issue. If the police hadn't rolled up and tried to jack up Michigan citizens legally exercising rights, meals would have been enjoyed, customers would not have become alarmed, and others present would have learned a valuable lesson about the right to carry guns openly in Michigan.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    Perhaps if someone didn't take this OC event to the extreme and bring a rifle, none of this would have ever happened. I think someone was looking for attention. Carrying a rifle vs. a holstered handgun draws a lot more attention. Again, this is just my opinion.

    No offense but perhaps you need to listen to the 911 call a few more times...
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    I tried to filter the noise out of the audio with audacity. Sad thing, it's just too noisy!

    I end up with clips that sound Luke C/3PO's robot friend...
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandersnatch View Post
    “Go ahead and have command come this way…we got a problem.”

    “The loud mouth of the group is in the black Suburban.”
    Funny the "problem" was that I wouldn't give up my rights and refused to give ID, which I didn't even have on me at the time.

    Me loud? Never.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    No offense but perhaps you need to listen to the 911 call a few more times...
    I have listened to the call. Let me rephrase what I said. The OC movement was fairly new to the area at the time of the incident. By bringing a long gun it simply put too much attention on the issue. It wasn’t until the long gun was scene that someone decided to call PD to find out the legality of it.

    I realize what he did was legal, and perhaps his heart was in the right place. Again, I was just expressing my opinion that bringing a long gun was OVER KILL and just asking for things to go south.

    I also realize this incident has been beat to death in the past, so I probably shouldn’t have revisited the issue.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    The point is the police knew it was legal and yet they still chose to harass...
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    The point is the police knew it was legal and yet they still chose to harass...
    At least the "loud mouth" set them straight
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    I have listened to the call. Let me rephrase what I said. The OC movement was fairly new to the area at the time of the incident. By bringing a long gun it simply put too much attention on the issue. It wasn’t until the long gun was scene that someone decided to call PD to find out the legality of it.

    I realize what he did was legal, and perhaps his heart was in the right place. Again, I was just expressing my opinion that bringing a long gun was OVER KILL and just asking for things to go south.

    I also realize this incident has been beat to death in the past, so I probably shouldn’t have revisited the issue.
    Do you mean new as in already 2.5 years in the making? Or new to LPD when I sent them info on OC in 2007? What do you mean by new?
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    I meant new to the GENERAL PUBLIC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    I meant new to the GENERAL PUBLIC.
    What does the general public have to do with this incident? The only call was from the assistant manager calling and asking a non-emergency operator if it was legal to OC a long gun. Really the general public didn't have a problem with it at this event, and they didn't at the dozen of other place the person OCed the long gun.

    This really isn't about long gun carry it's about the LEO's over reaction and how they try to intimidate OCers. The guy with the rifle wasn't even contacted by the police nor was he asked for ID. So it wasn't about him, it was about guns in general.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    I so I probably shouldn’t have revisited the issue.
    You should stick with this comment.

    As you can tell it will keep you out of trouble. BAD topic.

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    Ok, let me redefine what I meant by GENERAL PUBLIC in this thread. I meant any person who was out and about that day, whether walking their dog, eating in the restaurant, etc. Sure it was the manager that called PD and inquired, but anyone with access to a phone could have done the same thing as well. Yes…..I agree that the police officers should have known the firearm laws and that they pushed the issue too far. I never disagreed before or now that they were in the wrong. I also realize that OCing a long gun is legal and a person’s right.

    My whole ORIGINAL point was that the OC movement has been taking steps to desensitize the general public and to teach that it is legal. Again it is being done in steps.

    In MY opinion I felt that OCing a long gun was way over kill and just asking for attention. Again, this is just my opinion. I should have never posted on this originally as there have been other threads where this has went back and forth. Some people saw it as over kill and asking for problems, other though that since it is a right there was no cause for alarm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by quarter horseman View Post
    you should stick with this comment.

    As you can tell it will keep you out of trouble. Bad topic.
    agreed

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    , but anyone with access to a phone could have done the same thing as well. .
    Aaah but you see they didn't. The manager called not because he was scared, but because he wasn't sure long gun OC was lawful. Big difference.

    But let me ask you these questions, When will we be ready to OC a long gun? Who decides? A right not exercised is a right lost..... We don't want fear to infringe upon our freedoms.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Aaah but you see they didn't. The manager called not because he was scared, but because he wasn't sure long gun OC was lawful. Big difference.

    But let me ask you these questions, When will we be ready to OC a long gun? Who decides? A right not exercised is a right lost..... We don't want fear to infringe upon our freedoms.
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Aaah but you see they didn't. The manager called not because he was scared, but because he wasn't sure long gun OC was lawful. Big difference.

    But let me ask you these questions, When will we be ready to OC a long gun? Who decides? A right not exercised is a right lost..... We don't want fear to infringe upon our freedoms.
    Since this thread is going way off topic and we are debating something that has been debated to no end before, let’s all just agree to disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    Perhaps if someone didn't take this OC event to the extreme and bring a rifle, none of this would have ever happened. I think someone was looking for attention. Carrying a rifle vs. a holstered handgun draws a lot more attention. Again, this is just my opinion.
    That and letting someone who knew what they were doing set the event up.
    Oh and we could have also done without an adult giving a minor an airsoft gun to holster.

    just sayin

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Perhaps some people should pull there head out of the past and realize that this was all about intimidation and since as has been mentioned anyone could have called letting the manager know may or may not have helped.

    Another point... is that we don't generally ask permission to exercise rights .. nor should we.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    Since this thread is going way off topic and we are debating something that has been debated to no end before, let’s all just agree to disagree.
    Actually . . .

    Since you weren't there and your comments have been repeatedly rebutted and shown to be wrong or irrelevant, let's all just agree to forget what you said.
    Last edited by DanM; 10-22-2010 at 04:49 PM.
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