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Thread: What is the Legality of an ASP in Washington State

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    What is the Legality of an ASP in Washington State

    I don't know if this has ever been definitively answered here but my question is: "Is an ASP legal for a citizen to carry in Washington State? I realize that RCW 9.41.250 prohibits possession of a "slung shot" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slungshot and "sand club" (http://www.donrearic.com/sap.html but does not specifically prohibit the ASP. As I read, the only limitation involving this device would be in RCW 9.41.270 which includes clubs in it's list of weapon/devices that can't be displayed, carried, etc, in manner, etc, etc.

    I'm sure that an ASP is considered a dangerous weapon and as such can carry penalties for "USE" in crimes as well as being carried by felons.

    My question, again, "Is it legal for a citizen to carry an ASP in Washington State and further, as it is not a firearm requiring a permit to conceal, can it be carried concealed?

    Would be interested in any parts of State Law I might have missed.
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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Not sure on any laws specifically mentioning it, but you can get them at Tac Tailor. A lot of LEOs shop there and they're on display on the back wall to the left as you go in, so I'd assume there's no real problem with them. I'm hoping that I get one soon so that I have a second level of defense. Not every situation calls for a gun and I'm not too prepared for those.
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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    I'm not 100%, but I believe it is.

    I think it is legal...as for buying, I bought a spring assisted knife before I found out it was illegal in Washington. I had to throw it away. You can still purchase weapons that are illegal, just like nunchucks. I trained for some years and wanted a pair of chucks until I found those to be illegal also.
    Hopefully someone will with more knowledge on the subject will chime in.

    ETA: You can always OC a sword.
    Last edited by Aryk45XD; 10-22-2010 at 09:33 PM.

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    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    To the best of my knowledge an ASP is legal in Washington. I've run across people carrying them.

    I would suggest good training with it - an impact weapon isn't as simple as "hit guy, win fight."
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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    (OT) Does anyone know the prices at TacTailor? I've found them online, but with shipping, it adds about $20 for the ASP, SideBreak Scabbard and Glass Breaking end cap.

    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    To the best of my knowledge an ASP is legal in Washington. I've run across people carrying them.

    I would suggest good training with it - an impact weapon isn't as simple as "hit guy, win fight."
    Yeah, I'm hoping to find some affordable training or someone/ something that will teach me the basics for free. These little guys can get very dangerous. It'd be like being hit with a Steel/ Iron rod... since it is...
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin

    “It’s always open season on criminals in Mason County, and there’s no bag limit.” Sen. Tim Sheldon (D)

    Molōn labe!

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    To the best of my knowledge an ASP is legal in Washington. I've run across people carrying them.

    I would suggest good training with it - an impact weapon isn't as simple as "hit guy, win fight."

    Thanks for responding on this.

    Agree on the training. I have had some but it was with the old rigid baton. Could give some nasty 'pokes' with it.

    As I understand the ASP is more for swinging strikes.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    You can do all kinds of things with it the same as a rigid baton, too. Poking doesn't work well because it will collapse on you.

    Thing is, the "impact weapons" have legally valid targets, acceptable strike zones, etc.

    Hitting folks in the noggin is a lethal force application, for example.
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    Regular Member Leatherneck's Avatar
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    Long ago, in a galaxy far far away, I was on line, facing LEOs. One of them whipped out an asp. (Luckily I did not go to jail, or have to feel the non-handle end of that asp that night.)
    So, if it's legal for them to carry, and they are citizens, I'd think it'd be legal for me to carry.

    Maybe this is a huge assumption on my part though.

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    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leatherneck View Post
    Long ago, in a galaxy far far away, I was on line, facing LEOs. One of them whipped out an asp. (Luckily I did not go to jail, or have to feel the non-handle end of that asp that night.)
    So, if it's legal for them to carry, and they are citizens, I'd think it'd be legal for me to carry.

    Maybe this is a huge assumption on my part though.
    The argument is sound, if not the law.

    I've always been an advocate, personally, that anything an LEO could carry, so should you be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leatherneck View Post
    Long ago, in a galaxy far far away, I was on line, facing LEOs. One of them whipped out an asp. (Luckily I did not go to jail, or have to feel the non-handle end of that asp that night.)
    So, if it's legal for them to carry, and they are citizens, I'd think it'd be legal for me to carry.

    Maybe this is a huge assumption on my part though.
    I wish I could say that's true in all cases, but, unfortunately, they can carry fully automatic weapons and possess explosives, and we can not... :-/

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    Regular Member SargentMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    You can do all kinds of things with it the same as a rigid baton, too. Poking doesn't work well because it will collapse on you.

    Thing is, the "impact weapons" have legally valid targets, acceptable strike zones, etc.

    Hitting folks in the noggin is a lethal force application, for example.
    You can jab with an ASP. Proper opening is either to the ground or to the sky. You quickly swing the closed ASP in an upward or downward motion which extends and locks the telescoping pieces. I've seen several cops have a difficult time collapsing them again. Once the ASP is open, you place your weak side hand on the forward piece and use it for leverage, aim, and weapon retention. This jab hurts.

    In addition to a gut jab or swinging the ASP, it offers a VERY painful sternum rake.

    Levels of force broken down on a basic level is broad areas of muscle such as upper arm or thigh, escalating up to joints such as shoulder and knee, and then escalating to lethal force which is anything above the shoulders. Just remember it's not where you were aiming, but where you hit that matters.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post

    Hitting folks in the noggin is a lethal force application, for example.
    I've been told that the Neck and Spine are off limits to but a "Junk Shot" is OK.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    I don't like the ASP, or any baton, for that matter. Being trained in MMA, among other disciplines, I feel more confident using my fists, knees and elbows than a baton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    I don't like the ASP, or any baton, for that matter. Being trained in MMA, among other disciplines, I feel more confident using my fists, knees and elbows than a baton.
    Thats because your still young, quick & flexable. Tools become more important the more gray hair you have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    Thats because your still young, quick & flexable. Tools become more important the more gray hair you have.
    This is a great point on 2 fronts. Being trained to fight or defend yourself as it pertains to mma and most martial arts changes drastically when a weapon is involved. An asp or baton changes the dynamic of a fight by increasing range and damage. The second parts is when a person has physical limitations. The asp or baton helps to counter physical limitations of the wielder. Plus, it hurts like a motha when you get hit with a club.

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    I can see how a baton can help when it comes to range, however, I've been struck my an asp in my defensive class, and I've also sparred with some really good Thai fighters, including Kit Cope. I can tell you that a kick to the shins by a thai fighter hurt me a LOT more. It's one of those things that you have absolutely no idea what to anticipate until it happens. I'm not really big on blunt objects for protection, because I feel my fists, elbows, feet and knees ARE my blunt objects. I do, however, supplement my protection with O.C. spray and a taser, along with my firearm, of course.

    If I'm in a situation where I'm fighting hand to hand, and it's not in an organized setting, then something has already gone horribly wrong.
    Last edited by Aaron1124; 10-23-2010 at 02:20 PM.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    I can see how a baton can help when it comes to range, however, I've been struck my an asp in my defensive class, and I've also sparred with some really good Thai fighters, including Kit Cope. I can tell you that a kick to the shins by a thai fighter hurt me a LOT more. It's one of those things that you have absolutely no idea what to anticipate until it happens. I'm not really big on blunt objects for protection, because I feel my fists, elbows, feet and knees ARE my blunt objects. I do, however, supplement my protection with O.C. spray and a taser, along with my firearm, of course.

    If I'm in a situation where I'm fighting hand to hand, and it's not in an organized setting, then something has already gone horribly wrong.
    So what of the other 99% of Society that wouldn't know MMA from GMC or CIA? A Baton can be used to parry a blow from another striking weapon. I think I'd prefer that to using parts of my anatomy. I would find an ASP/Baton a nice in-between option. OC spray, Baton, firearm. For myself, I don't see a Taser in my future. I don't plan on having to wear a Duty Belt to carry all the "tools".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    So what of the other 99% of Society that wouldn't know MMA from GMC or CIA? A Baton can be used to parry a blow from another striking weapon. I think I'd prefer that to using parts of my anatomy. I would find an ASP/Baton a nice in-between option. OC spray, Baton, firearm. For myself, I don't see a Taser in my future. I don't plan on having to wear a Duty Belt to carry all the "tools".
    If the boot fits, wear it. I just said I don't prefer them for myself. I keep my taser and O.C. Spray in my pockets. No need for a duty belt.
    Last edited by Aaron1124; 10-23-2010 at 05:17 PM.

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    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    If I'm in a situation where I'm fighting hand to hand, and it's not in an organized setting, then something has already gone horribly wrong.
    I like this quote.

    An impact weapon is an intermediate weapon. One of the features that lends well to the baton is the relative lack of restrictions on carrying it.

    In a pinch on an airplane you can make a baton from a tightly rolled magazine.

    A talented man with a baton will take apart an MMA practitioner with relative ease, but someone who has no idea what they are doing with a baton is easily disarmed and beaten with their own implement.

    If you choose to carry anything, the advice about learning to use it applies universally.
    Last edited by maclean; 10-23-2010 at 05:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post

    If you choose to carry anything, the advice about learning to use it applies universally.
    That's exactly how I feel. I'm confident enough in my hand to hand skills (unarmed) that a baton would actually hinder my defensive tactics, because I am no where near an expert with it. I'm not saying I'm some expert MMA fighter either, but I'm more proficient at MMA fighting than I am with baton fighting.

    One thing I would like to see is a man trained with only baton training take on a professional, unarmed fighter, and see what happens. I'd actually be willing to bet that the professional fighter would take him down and out of commission relatively quick. Just my thoughts, anyway.
    Last edited by Aaron1124; 10-23-2010 at 05:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    That's exactly how I feel. I'm confident enough in my hand to hand skills (unarmed) that a baton would actually hinder my defensive tactics, because I am no where near an expert with it. I'm not saying I'm some expert MMA fighter either, but I'm more proficient at MMA fighting than I am with baton fighting.

    One thing I would like to see is a man trained with only baton training take on a professional, unarmed fighter, and see what happens. I'd actually be willing to bet that the professional fighter would take him down and out of commission relatively quick. Just my thoughts, anyway.
    No offence to you Aaron or any other martial artist but in my experiance they dont last long in a bar room brawl. MAs are great for fitness, reflexes, strength and even somewhat for mind set. I cant really say anything bad about MA except for trying to use it on the street. When there are no rules, not that your enemy would obay them anyway, it changes the dynamic.

    Put them in a ring and my money would be on the MA guy put them on the street and my money is on the biker/gangmember, pick a bad guy.

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    Regular Member 911Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryk45XD View Post
    I think it is legal...as for buying, I bought a spring assisted knife before I found out it was illegal in Washington. I had to throw it away. You can still purchase weapons that are illegal, just like nunchucks. I trained for some years and wanted a pair of chucks until I found those to be illegal also.
    Hopefully someone will with more knowledge on the subject will chime in.

    ETA: You can always OC a sword.
    OT, but spring assisted knives are NOT illegal in WA.

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    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    One thing I would like to see is a man trained with only baton training take on a professional, unarmed fighter, and see what happens. I'd actually be willing to bet that the professional fighter would take him down and out of commission relatively quick. Just my thoughts, anyway.
    I've seen it, once. The "fighter" went to the hospital.

    Can't say it would always go that way, but it was pretty damn impressive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    No offence to you Aaron or any other martial artist but in my experiance they dont last long in a bar room brawl. MAs are great for fitness, reflexes, strength and even somewhat for mind set. I cant really say anything bad about MA except for trying to use it on the street. When there are no rules, not that your enemy would obay them anyway, it changes the dynamic.

    Put them in a ring and my money would be on the MA guy put them on the street and my money is on the biker/gangmember, pick a bad guy.
    I believe aaron is referring to MMA, as in mixed martial arts, not necessarily traditional arts like karate. MMA is the mixing of arts to become the most proficient fighter possible. If you put a well trained MMA practitioner in a street fight against a biker/gang member the contest is over before it really begins with the trained combatant winning 90% or more of the confrontations. I have the luxury of training on a regular basis with professional MMA fighters and can tell you that they really are a different level of combatant, even from the guys I have trained with in boxing, Judo and Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. That said I'm definitely in favor of using a weapon if available. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight as they say.

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