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What is the Legality of an ASP in Washington State

Aaron1124

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If you choose to carry anything, the advice about learning to use it applies universally.

That's exactly how I feel. I'm confident enough in my hand to hand skills (unarmed) that a baton would actually hinder my defensive tactics, because I am no where near an expert with it. I'm not saying I'm some expert MMA fighter either, but I'm more proficient at MMA fighting than I am with baton fighting.

One thing I would like to see is a man trained with only baton training take on a professional, unarmed fighter, and see what happens. I'd actually be willing to bet that the professional fighter would take him down and out of commission relatively quick. Just my thoughts, anyway.
 
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Jeff Hayes

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That's exactly how I feel. I'm confident enough in my hand to hand skills (unarmed) that a baton would actually hinder my defensive tactics, because I am no where near an expert with it. I'm not saying I'm some expert MMA fighter either, but I'm more proficient at MMA fighting than I am with baton fighting.

One thing I would like to see is a man trained with only baton training take on a professional, unarmed fighter, and see what happens. I'd actually be willing to bet that the professional fighter would take him down and out of commission relatively quick. Just my thoughts, anyway.

No offence to you Aaron or any other martial artist but in my experiance they dont last long in a bar room brawl. MAs are great for fitness, reflexes, strength and even somewhat for mind set. I cant really say anything bad about MA except for trying to use it on the street. When there are no rules, not that your enemy would obay them anyway, it changes the dynamic.

Put them in a ring and my money would be on the MA guy put them on the street and my money is on the biker/gangmember, pick a bad guy.
 

911Boss

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I think it is legal...as for buying, I bought a spring assisted knife before I found out it was illegal in Washington. I had to throw it away. You can still purchase weapons that are illegal, just like nunchucks. I trained for some years and wanted a pair of chucks until I found those to be illegal also.
Hopefully someone will with more knowledge on the subject will chime in.

ETA: You can always OC a sword.

OT, but spring assisted knives are NOT illegal in WA.
 

maclean

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One thing I would like to see is a man trained with only baton training take on a professional, unarmed fighter, and see what happens. I'd actually be willing to bet that the professional fighter would take him down and out of commission relatively quick. Just my thoughts, anyway.

I've seen it, once. The "fighter" went to the hospital.

Can't say it would always go that way, but it was pretty damn impressive.
 

irish52084

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No offence to you Aaron or any other martial artist but in my experiance they dont last long in a bar room brawl. MAs are great for fitness, reflexes, strength and even somewhat for mind set. I cant really say anything bad about MA except for trying to use it on the street. When there are no rules, not that your enemy would obay them anyway, it changes the dynamic.

Put them in a ring and my money would be on the MA guy put them on the street and my money is on the biker/gangmember, pick a bad guy.

I believe aaron is referring to MMA, as in mixed martial arts, not necessarily traditional arts like karate. MMA is the mixing of arts to become the most proficient fighter possible. If you put a well trained MMA practitioner in a street fight against a biker/gang member the contest is over before it really begins with the trained combatant winning 90% or more of the confrontations. I have the luxury of training on a regular basis with professional MMA fighters and can tell you that they really are a different level of combatant, even from the guys I have trained with in boxing, Judo and Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. That said I'm definitely in favor of using a weapon if available. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight as they say.:lol:
 

Tomas

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Training in what one carries, to match ones abilities, is greatly to be desired, but I've honestly yet to see much of anything for us cripples. :D

(Another thing I do wonder about is the breaking strength of my one-piece carbon fiber cane.)
 
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Trigger Dr

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That's exactly how I feel. I'm confident enough in my hand to hand skills (unarmed) that a baton would actually hinder my defensive tactics, because I am no where near an expert with it. I'm not saying I'm some expert MMA fighter either, but I'm more proficient at MMA fighting than I am with baton fighting.

One thing I would like to see is a man trained with only baton training take on a professional, unarmed fighter, and see what happens. I'd actually be willing to bet that the professional fighter would take him down and out of commission relatively quick. Just my thoughts, anyway.

I recieved training with the PR24 "side handle baton" as taught by the Georgia State Police, while attending the Treasury academy at Brunswick Ga. Those guys ARE EXPERTS. I believe that is a wager you would loose.
 

xxx.jakk.xxx

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Does anyone know of any official training in this area or any martial art that focuses on a weapon that is the same basic concept as a Baton?

Also, what is the legality of concealing an ASP? I know that there are certain weapons that you're not allowed to Conceal, but I didn't know if an ASP counted. I ask because my work freaks out about Guns, so they'll probably be against me having an ASP on the clock. To counter this, I'm not going to ask and if it's legal I will wear it concealed. By that I mean in a "Holster" that holds it horizontally across the back on my belt. I hope it's legal for me to do so.
 

Aaron1124

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No offence to you Aaron or any other martial artist but in my experiance they dont last long in a bar room brawl. MAs are great for fitness, reflexes, strength and even somewhat for mind set. I cant really say anything bad about MA except for trying to use it on the street. When there are no rules, not that your enemy would obay them anyway, it changes the dynamic.

Put them in a ring and my money would be on the MA guy put them on the street and my money is on the biker/gangmember, pick a bad guy.

I have specifically trained in MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) and Krav Maga, which is the Israeli Defense Forces Martial Arts system. Krav Maga teaches real life, self defense scenarios, including defensive tactics against weapons, and offensive tactics against weapons. Mixed Martial Arts is probably the premiere sport that is the ultimate test of a person's fighting skills within a controlled environment. I believe you may be confusing traditional Martial Arts with MMA and Krav Maga.
 

Aaron1124

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I recieved training with the PR24 "side handle baton" as taught by the Georgia State Police, while attending the Treasury academy at Brunswick Ga. Those guys ARE EXPERTS. I believe that is a wager you would loose.

I would feel comfortable taking that wager, in a controlled environment. I will gladly fight a NON trained fighter (with the exception of his baton training). I am very confident that my double leg takedown would bring him off of his feet, and his baton would fall. I would probably get hit once with it, but it's nothing I have not already felt in training. This is just my opinion, and until it's done, it's all speculation, of course. I'm just saying I'd feel confident.
 

devildoc5

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you can almost ALWAYS hit someone in the side of the knee with an ASP. As long as they are not Arnold Schwarzakitty, they WILL go down and PROBABLY not walk for a VERY long time. Hit it on the side of the knee cap and they will require surgery to be able to use their knee again.

Nice quick decapitating blow that will help you out of MOST situations you might find yourself in. ALMOST negates the need for a handgun if you can get the hit right.... :D
 

maclean

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Training in what one carries, to match ones abilities, is greatly to be desired, but I've honestly yet to see much of anything for us cripples. :D

(Another thing I do wonder about is the breaking strength of my one-piece carbon fiber cane.)

Cold Steel was making a walking stick that I have always thought would be a tasteful accessory.

I'm pretty sure it was some sort of polymer.

In the use of force legal world, the term you are looking for is "disparity." Because you are older or injured, you are allowed to bring more fight to the fight initially than someone like Aaron.

Knowing your ability is important, but also your limitations.

I wish more folks of the gun sort would make a better study of some of that sort of stuff - but then I would not be able to hire myself out as a teacher if everyone was doing it ;)
 
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amlevin

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Does anyone know of any official training in this area or any martial art that focuses on a weapon that is the same basic concept as a Baton?

Also, what is the legality of concealing an ASP? I know that there are certain weapons that you're not allowed to Conceal, but I didn't know if an ASP counted. I ask because my work freaks out about Guns, so they'll probably be against me having an ASP on the clock. To counter this, I'm not going to ask and if it's legal I will wear it concealed. By that I mean in a "Holster" that holds it horizontally across the back on my belt. I hope it's legal for me to do so.

As for Washington, I carefully read the law (see original Post) and it merely refers to "slung shot" which is a weight on the end of a piece of rope, or sand club which is the old "blackjack" as illegal to conceal. The ASP is neither of those items.

In OTHER States their laws vary. In some you can carry an ASP but can't conceal and in others you can't do either.

From what I've read in the law and comments here on this forum from some who are "on the job", it appears that you can conceal an ASP legally subject to provisions of RCW 9.1.270
 

irish52084

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Does anyone know of any official training in this area or any martial art that focuses on a weapon that is the same basic concept as a Baton?

Also, what is the legality of concealing an ASP? I know that there are certain weapons that you're not allowed to Conceal, but I didn't know if an ASP counted. I ask because my work freaks out about Guns, so they'll probably be against me having an ASP on the clock. To counter this, I'm not going to ask and if it's legal I will wear it concealed. By that I mean in a "Holster" that holds it horizontally across the back on my belt. I hope it's legal for me to do so.

Not sure of anywhere that teaches specifically for a baton or asp, but Philippine stick fighting is very baton/stick oriented.
 

amlevin

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Not sure of anywhere that teaches specifically for a baton or asp, but Philippine stick fighting is very baton/stick oriented.

There is some basic info available here. A downloadable Power Point presentation goes through some basics and exercises.

http://asp-usa-demo.com/training.html

Can also purchase video here:

http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/ASP-Tactical-Baton-Training-Video-p-16197.html

Then clean out the garage, hang a practice bag, and start working out.
 

END_THE_FED

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OT, but spring assisted knives are NOT illegal in WA.

I could be missing something here but Doesn't this RCW say that they are illegal.


RCW 9.41.250

(1) Every person who:

(a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;


http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.250
 

amlevin

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I could be missing something here but Doesn't this RCW say that they are illegal.


RCW 9.41.250

(1) Every person who:

(a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;


http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.250


Spring ASSISTED, not automatically opened by spring when released. There are numerous legal knives that open with spring assistance but the operator has to both initiate the opening using his hand/finger, not a mechanical device such as button or "switch".

Here is an example of a Legal spring assisted knife:

http://sogknives.com/store/assisted.html
 

END_THE_FED

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Spring ASSISTED, not automatically opened by spring when released. There are numerous legal knives that open with spring assistance but the operator has to both initiate the opening using his hand/finger, not a mechanical device such as button or "switch".

Here is an example of a Legal spring assisted knife:

http://sogknives.com/store/assisted.html


Well sir,

I stand corrected, and am wiping this egg off my face.
 
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