• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Wisconsin is not a stop and identify State because ????

rcawdor57

rcawdor57

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
1,643
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Peacekeeper, are you a young person?

When I was young I felt as you do. As I have grown older (past 50 now) my eyes have been opened to many things. The country I grew up in is no more. What happened to it? One by one the people were trained in public schools and from ridiculous tv shows to bow down to "authority" and that it was our duty to comply. Now we have a nation of people that do not even know their rights. Let me give some examples of what is no more: When I was a teen I rode the school bus with either my double barrel 16 gauge shotgun and a box of shells or it was my .22LR bolt action Glenfield with several boxes of ammo. Into the school I would go and put the gun and ammo in the "coat closet" at the back of my homeroom class. In that closet there were usually quite a few shotguns and .22 rifles during hunting season. What happened? Guns were demonized by the LEFT and by their tv shows and news reporters. Gun owners were demonized to the point that now many gun owners are even ashamed to TALK about owning a gun. I have several neighbors that own guns but will not go to the range with me or even show me their guns. They are afraid of what their neighbors will think. What happened?

When I was a teen and we had a run in with the police we told them to get off our property and they left. (No crime had taken place, they were there to harass us). End of story. Try that now and see what happens. The police do not have the authority to enter your home or property just because they want to....but many police think they do and even more people believe it to be true.
What happened?

When I was a teen it was no big deal to photograph police or anyone else for that matter in public. Now try that openly in many states and the police will arrest you. For what? For taking pictures of them. What happened?

So here we are today in 2010 working to restore this country back to something that resembles a Republic instead of a police state. We don't have many "rights" left and I will be damned if I am going to "voluntarily" submit to any government representatives "request".

Every right we have must be fought for and not be "given away" just because a police officer asks you to or tells you you have no choice. You DO have a choice. Make the right one.
 
LOERetired

LOERetired

New member
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
434
Location
, ,
The correct response

cowboyridn said:
You're walking in a perceved (by Law Enforcement) high crime area and your stopped while walking down the sidewalk by Law Enforcement, and the officer tells you there was a crime near the area your walking, and your OCing at the time, and the officer states he believes you fit the discription of the suspect and they detain you and ask for identification. What do you do, give your ID to the officer or refuse???

Any other Scenario's to add, lets discuss them.


Don
Click to expand...

INVOCATION OF RIGHTS

I wish to invoke all my rights under the statutes and Constitution of the United States and State of Wisconsin. I do not want to talk with anyone from law enforcement or participate in any lineup until I consult with a lawyer and he/she is present. I do not consent to a search of my person, property, or possessions under my control or in which I have interest. I do not wave any of my legal rights.

This is from a criminal defense attorney who is a public defender for Dane County whom I know personally. Put this on a card and when you are stopped, recite this, and then shut up..........

Don
 
Last edited:
Shotgun

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Russf said:
Dont know if this applies in Wisconsin......

Just had a conversation With a Fedral Agent and according to him this does apply in Wisconsin...He believes that you must show ID....

http://articles.cnn.com/2004-06-24/...irement-search-reasonable-suspicion?_s=PM:LAW
Click to expand...

He is wrong. The reason Wisconsin is not a "stop and identify state" is due to the decision in the Wisconsin Supreme Court case Henes v. Morrissey, 194 Wis. 2d 339 (1995) which ruled that the obstruction statute does not include a requirement to provide identification. It was not a constitutional interpretation, it was the court's interpretation of the statute.

"We do not equate the failure to identify oneself with the act
of giving false information…mere silence, standing alone,
is insufficient to constitute obstruction under the statute…
without more than mere silence, there is no obstruction."

Because of this, Hiibel has no effect in Wisconsin. The Hiibel case basically boils down to saying "If you have a state stop and identify statute, it is constitutional and therefore valid." The reason it has no effect in Wisconsin is because Wisconsin's highest court has ruled that the state has no "stop and identify" statute in the first place, because they do not interpret the obstruction statute to include a requirement to identify one's self.
 
C

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
RR_Broccoli said:
SNIP And consequentiality violates the person's rights, makes himself look bad personally, and sets up the municipality for a lawsuit.
Click to expand...

I think you missed something.

In the paragraph from my post to which you were responding, I was not talking about a citation for refusing to identify oneself. I was talking about situations where a citation is already being issued.

For example, lets say a cop is citing you for disorderly conduct or trespassing. In some states, perhaps all, the cop is allowed to write a citation, basically a summons, something you sign there on the sidewalk in front of the cop, promising thereby to appear in court to answer the charge.

In some states, perhaps all, the cop is allowed to arrest instead of cite, if certain circumstances occur. For example, if a person cannot stop committing the misdemeanor. An example would be a streaker. He ain't got no clothes, so its gonna be kinda hard to stop committing the offense. A DUI might be another example--the DUI driver can't really stop committing the offense for a while, and there is a danger he may go on committing the offense by driving where ever it was he was going.

One of the circumstances that some states, perhaps all, allow an arrest instead of citation, is if the misdemeanant gives the cop reason to believe the misdemeanant is going to skip the court date.

Refusing to provide an ID document to the cop while he is writing the citation is interpreted by some cops to mean they've received a ficticious name so the misdemeanant can skip the court date.
 
P

Peacekeeper

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
171
Location
Fond du Lac Wisconsin
rcawdor57 said:
When I was young I felt as you do. As I have grown older (past 50 now) my eyes have been opened to many things. The country I grew up in is no more. What happened to it? One by one the people were trained in public schools and from ridiculous tv shows to bow down to "authority" and that it was our duty to comply. Now we have a nation of people that do not even know their rights. Let me give some examples of what is no more: When I was a teen I rode the school bus with either my double barrel 16 gauge shotgun and a box of shells or it was my .22LR bolt action Glenfield with several boxes of ammo. Into the school I would go and put the gun and ammo in the "coat closet" at the back of my homeroom class. In that closet there were usually quite a few shotguns and .22 rifles during hunting season. What happened? Guns were demonized by the LEFT and by their tv shows and news reporters. Gun owners were demonized to the point that now many gun owners are even ashamed to TALK about owning a gun. I have several neighbors that own guns but will not go to the range with me or even show me their guns. They are afraid of what their neighbors will think. What happened?

When I was a teen and we had a run in with the police we told them to get off our property and they left. (No crime had taken place, they were there to harass us). End of story. Try that now and see what happens. The police do not have the authority to enter your home or property just because they want to....but many police think they do and even more people believe it to be true.
What happened?

When I was a teen it was no big deal to photograph police or anyone else for that matter in public. Now try that openly in many states and the police will arrest you. For what? For taking pictures of them. What happened?

So here we are today in 2010 working to restore this country back to something that resembles a Republic instead of a police state. We don't have many "rights" left and I will be damned if I am going to "voluntarily" submit to any government representatives "request".

Every right we have must be fought for and not be "given away" just because a police officer asks you to or tells you you have no choice. You DO have a choice. Make the right one.
Click to expand...

Hi rcawdor57,
I agree with everything you've stated here. I've had very few bad incidents involving police contact in my lifetime. When necessary, I stood up for my rights. As a hobby photographer I'm awhere of the current events involving LEOs. I never took guns to school because I was not a hunter - but my friends did.
In the scenario presented the OCer wasn't a suspect. As a potential witness the OCer may have been able to provide information to prove or disprove guilt or innocence.
I understand that I have choices. My favorite uncle, a retired LEO, gave me my first firearm for xmas when I was 10. I just look at LEOs differently. Still believe than most are good and honorable people. And still believe that it is the right thing to do to help out when I can.
PS ... I'm over 50 too!
 
rcawdor57

rcawdor57

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
1,643
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Peacekeeper said:
Hi rcawdor57,
I agree with everything you've stated here. I've had very few bad incidents involving police contact in my lifetime. When necessary, I stood up for my rights. As a hobby photographer I'm awhere of the current events involving LEOs. I never took guns to school because I was not a hunter - but my friends did.
In the scenario presented the OCer wasn't a suspect. As a potential witness the OCer may have been able to provide information to prove or disprove guilt or innocence.
I understand that I have choices. My favorite uncle, a retired LEO, gave me my first firearm for xmas when I was 10. I just look at LEOs differently. Still believe than most are good and honorable people. And still believe that it is the right thing to do to help out when I can.
PS ... I'm over 50 too!
Click to expand...

Us old timers have to stick together! :)

A friend of mine retired a week or so ago after 30 years as a deputy in New Mexico. During the beginning of his career he worked as a city police officer but soon quit and joined the county sheriff. Now remember this was about 30 years ago. Why did he quit the city police force? He was trained to violate people's rights and arrest them for anything and everything. He was trained that "Everyone is guilty of something you just have to figure out what it is and arrest them for it." His time with the sheriff was completely different and they were trained to follow the laws and the Constitutions they had sworn an Oath to. His advice to me? "Don't talk to the police". So I don't.

I just remembered this: A few months the deputy I mentioned above got a call from another deputy he worked with. His friend (a deputy sheriff) was home with his girlfriend when his home was raided by...."THE CITY POLICE" in full combat gear. They burst through his door with sub machine guns ready to kill everyone in the house and took him and his girlfriend to the floor. He was IN UNIFORM and his cruiser was in his driveway. He and his GF were handcuffed and stuffed into a city police car and taken to jail. The cops searched his house and took his laptop computer as well as his GF's laptop. Why? Supposedly there was an identity theft ring going on at the I.P. address which pointed to his house. There was no evidence and nothing was found. Eventually all charges were dropped and they were released. So what happened to police courtesy to fellow police?
 
RR_Broccoli

RR_Broccoli

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
170
Location
WI
Citizen said:
I think you missed something.

In the paragraph from my post to which you were responding, I was not talking about a citation for refusing to identify oneself. I was talking about situations where a citation is already being issued.

For example, lets say a cop is citing you for disorderly conduct or trespassing. In some states, perhaps all, the cop is allowed to write a citation, basically a summons, something you sign there on the sidewalk in front of the cop, promising thereby to appear in court to answer the charge.

In some states, perhaps all, the cop is allowed to arrest instead of cite, if certain circumstances occur. For example, if a person cannot stop committing the misdemeanor. An example would be a streaker. He ain't got no clothes, so its gonna be kinda hard to stop committing the offense. A DUI might be another example--the DUI driver can't really stop committing the offense for a while, and there is a danger he may go on committing the offense by driving where ever it was he was going.

One of the circumstances that some states, perhaps all, allow an arrest instead of citation, is if the misdemeanant gives the cop reason to believe the misdemeanant is going to skip the court date.

Refusing to provide an ID document to the cop while he is writing the citation is interpreted by some cops to mean they've received a ficticious name so the misdemeanant can skip the court date.
Click to expand...

This right there in bold is a blanket pass for jack-booted-thug activity. Back in the day, a lot of cops thought people who were black were doing something wrong if they were out of their own neighborhoods. How a cop interprets the situation means less than spit on a chicken's butt. According to most cops, standing up for one's rights is an act only someone committing a crime does.

Look, I know you don't live in WI so you can be forgiven for not knowing the laws. However, I suggest you go LOOK THEM UP for WI before continuing the conversation with us about specific laws in WI.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top