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Thread: Highschool discussion on our rights as people

  1. #1
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    Highschool discussion on our rights as people

    So I had an opportunity to read a discussion of some Highschool freshman. I caught a few interesting points, so I thought I would share some of them. I think there has been some educating discussions at home.

    "So let me get this straight... you think that everyone has the right to free speech, the right to say whatever they want where ever they want, but they can't talk about the government? When people are okay with the government taking away their rights, even when its just a little bit at a time with something like the Sedition Act, we slip closer and closer to tyranny. Look at all the gun controversy right now. States have been passing statutes that ban concealed carry, ban guns in certain settings, or ban guns altogether. Doesn't the second amendment state that we have the right to bear arms? More and more people are finally coming to realize that the government is taking away our rights and they're getting pissed about it.
    It would be completely okay if the government did nothing about people talking about a revolution. How do they have any right to control what someone says?! Our government was created by the people FOR the people, not to CONTROL the people. And if a revolution happened then there would obviously be a reason for it, and we have the right to overthrow a government that isn't working.

    If you had a gun would you just kill anyone who made you mad? Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? It's actually been proven that if there are guns present, crimes are less likely to happen. Think about it this way, would you rather rob someone who is completely defenseless or someone who has a gun? States that don't have any gun laws almost always have a lower crime rate that ones that do. Why do you think that is? If someone is getting a gun just to kill someone do you really think they'll just walk into a store, buy and register a gun and then go kill the person? I don't think so. Not unless they are intending to get caught right away anyway. Why would you be scared if someone had a gun? There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone wanting to protect themselves and everyone else around them. Are you scared of cars? They kill just as many people as guns do. What gives policemen any more right to carry guns than common people? The reason most of those laws get passed is because people are thinking with their emotions not their brains.
    The government does control people. It's not straight out controlling though; they control most people by lying, hiding and manipulating. But that's a whole other topic and I could go on for days about that.

    The government is only trying to help itself though. Sure, it will occasionally pass a law like the smoking ban to satisfy some people and to get more people to start thinking with their emotions. When less people are using logic, the government can take advantage of them more easily. This all goes back to the whole lying, hiding, and manipulating thing.

    Take a while to read through this site, http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0210e.asp . Especially the 'Guns stop crime' part. Here are a couple quotes from there if you don't want to go to the site:
    "Those studies and others indicate that often the mere sight of a firearm discourages an attacker."

    "Sowell...correctly points out that gun-control laws don’t control guns, “They disarm potential victims.""

    "In 1997, assistant principal Joel Myrick used a gun to stop a violent teen who was shooting up his school in Pearl, Mississippi. He succeeded in preventing a massacre, but was prosecuted for having a gun within 1,000 feet of a school."

    "Several years before the Columbine shootings, Congress imposed a school-zone gun ban which prohibited firearms within 1,000 feet of any school, under the mistaken belief that potential killers obey gun-control laws." Look how that turned out...

    "In 1976, Washington, D.C., instituted one of the strictest gun-control laws in the country. The murder rate since that time has risen 134 percent (77.8 per 100,000 population) while the overall rate for the country has declined..."


    (http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp) Check out that site too. Nice little graphs and everything.
    "A...survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found :
    • 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"
    • 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"
    • 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim""

    "During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law"


    http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4706 -This one has some nice little facts for you

    http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=41196 -Nice story about 'Gun Town'

    Want some more? ;P

    Sure it might increase the stress level, but it could also stop a robbery, stop a sexual assault, or save lives. If you were being assaulted would you rather have someone who doesn't have a gun, or someone who does pass by? Sure, it might be more stressful but you would be more likely to get away with your life.

    No one answered my question, What gives policemen any more right to carry guns than common people? Did you know that "while police have an error rate of 11 percent when it comes to the accidental shooting of innocent civilians, the armed citizens’ error rate is only 2 percent, making them five times safer than police"? ( http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0210e.asp )

    You say that "Freedom of speech will never be taken away from the American people"... don't you think that's what everyone was thinking back then? And look what happened...

    Just so you know, criminals are not legally able to buy guns at all.

    Exactly. And if people realize that and stand up for their rights then they are going to end up with none.

    The thing is, when people are trying to get elected they will say whatever it takes to get you to vote for them, they may even believe it, but once they get into office, there is only so much they can do. Also, as I'm sure you've noticed, people change once they get into office. Look at Jefferson, he spoke out against the Sedition Act but as soon as he was president he was all for them..."

    Now remember these are statements from a freshman about 14yrs old.
    Click Here for New to WI Open Carry Legal References and Informational Videos--- FAQ's http://Tinyurl.com/OpenCarry-WI

    The Armed Badger A WI site dedicated to Concealed Carry in WI

    "To disarm the people... was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -- George Mason, Speech of June 14, 1788

    http://Tinyurl.com/New-To-Guns to DL useful Info

  2. #2
    McX
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    an error rate of 11%. i feel so much better now knowing that huh!? i think i have figured out why the cops hate OC so much; for many years they have had exclusive control, being known for who you call when the going gets rough. that they are society's only defenders. Then enter OC, suddenly they aren't the only ones capable of defending, the citizens can stand alone, and their armed presence deters crime, just like the sight of a police car would. the cops aren't the only game in town, they aren't the only fine upstanding citizens in the area- and it galls them to no end!

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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    i think i have figured out why the cops hate OC so much; for many years they have had exclusive control, being known for who you call when the going gets rough. that they are society's only defenders. Then enter OC, suddenly they aren't the only ones capable of defending, the citizens can stand alone, and their armed presence deters crime, just like the sight of a police car would. the cops aren't the only game in town, they aren't the only fine upstanding citizens in the area- and it galls them to no end!
    I have had that same thought. It is like their (LE's) job, security, position in society, etc, is being "infringed upon". Kind of a territorial thing. Maybe they feel their "right of power" is being reduced. And, the taller the ego, the more it may fall. Of course, not all LEOs are like that. Some, if not many, see us as "a good thing".
    Last edited by phred; 10-23-2010 at 04:15 PM.

  4. #4
    McX
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    phred, think about that one; they're upset cause they're being infringed. how does it feel? they liken that, like we do huh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    they're upset cause they're being infringed. how does it feel? they liken that, like we do huh?
    yup, that's why I used those words.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I just wanted to point out, cars kill more people than guns.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    I just wanted to point out, cars kill more people than guns.
    Not intentionally.

    The premeditated murder rate using vehicles must be so miniscule as to be immeasurable, so your point is comparing apples and oranges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    I just wanted to point out, cars kill more people than guns.
    Cars or guns don't kill people, stupidity kills people.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    Cars or guns don't kill people, stupidity kills people.
    Why don't you nit pick?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Cleanliness is next to Godliness. Wash, rinse, repeat.

    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Why don't you nit pick?
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    Cars or guns don't kill people, stupidity kills people.
    Maybe someday there will be only nits to pick. For now, here, clearly, fundamental misinformation abounds and is spreading like bedbugs into all the best homes. Cleanliness is next to Godliness. Wash, rinse, repeat.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    Maybe someday there will be only nits to pick. For now, here, clearly, fundamental misinformation abounds and is spreading like bedbugs into all the best homes. Cleanliness is next to Godliness. Wash, rinse, repeat.
    True. I do nit pick from time to time as well, just so things are more clearly defined. If words are not defined properly, then they lose their meaning.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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