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Thread: Local PD tell me i can't shoot on private property due to complaints?? WTF!

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Local PD tell me i can't shoot on private property due to complaints?? WTF!

    I'm going to be vague being were on a public forum but here's the gist.
    Friends of mine were shooting on my private property with my permission. Local Cops showed up, Asked them to put down the weapons, see id's, permits ect. They complied as not being versed in the laws. They are told by the pd, on my property, that they cant shoot there anymore and are further harassed about another things. Ya, some people just don't no when to shut there mouths.

    I get home 5hrs later to find this out. Pist is an understatement. Long story short, I calmly contacted the PD, spoke with the officer in charge of the issue and explained my feelings and asked what, if anything was being done illegally or unsafely. To that he replied they had noise complaints, to that i replied i dislike blue cars, can i complain?
    We went back and forth but i really never got an answer. I
    explained I will exercise my rights and continue to shoot. I then asked how he would like to proceed or would there be any legal repercussions in the future to which i received no clear response.

    Is there anyone on here thats been at the beginning of this situation before and how did it play out.
    Second, Ive searched the CT laws and regulations and i am in the green here. And, not that it matters because I'm not hunting, but i am well over 500 feet from anything.
    I will say, I am not trying to bait or screw the PD, I am going to stick up for my rights though

    Thanks in advance

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    Thumbs up I am going to stick up for my rights

    You stick to you rights. and also theres a group of people in the CCDL that will answer some of theses questions. Here is there website www.ccdl.us and other useful links. check it out and good luck.

  3. #3
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    Thank you. As far as laws and rights regarding shooting on ones own property, good luck finding them. I was told a couple years back asking the same question, the laws tell us what we cant do, not what we can. Theirs nothing i can find other then off brand charges which are murky at best, ie. noise complaint.(a plane is louder,hmm)

  4. #4
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    To further your boring reading pleasure.......

    Do some research at your town/city hall and read all the local ordinances regarding noise and property rights and such, just to make sure you are indeed in the right.

    I don't think an attorney would charge a rather large amount of money (especially a 2A friendly attorney, which is important) to help with the legal research and such.

    You may end up having to file a civil suit or something in the long run, which sucks.

    Curious, what size plot of land? CT is a funny place. I have friends up north that love their "freedom" that comes from actually owning land!

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    I have previously researched the town rules/ordinances as well as CT's and i find nothing pretaining to my issue. Also, there are two private gun clubs within 2 miles of me as a crow flies. This is clearly a pain in the ass neighbor that has the PD's ear. I have plenty of land and have never had an issue prior. ( iwill add the pd is not a fan of mine as i dont just bow down)
    I may contact one of the attorneys on here familiar with CT just to make sure i am not overstepping my rights. I have no problem being a good neighbor, but it is give and take equally on both sides to be fair. I am willing to adjust my shoots to be kind, however i just don't feel thats going to work considering the strange vibe i get after gathering info from the Locally Pd. I trust the written Law and thats about it, no offense.
    Thanks again

  6. #6
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    I don't think an attorney would charge a rather large amount of money (especially a 2A friendly attorney, which is important) to help with the legal research and such.
    You would probably be surprised about cost and about how hard it is to find available 2A friendly attorneys in this state.

    My recommendation would be to call Craig Fishbein at the Fishbein law firm in Wallingford. He is an executive member of CCDL and I believe he worked on the Blue Trails Range case. Probably has a lot of information on what you need right off the top of his head.

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    If you are safely shooting on your own property and noise is the only issue Disorderly Conduct or Creating a Public Disturbance are the only two statues that MAY apply. It all depends on one's interpretation of what is "Unreasonable Noise". Personally, If you were my neighbor and were shooting between 2000-0800 I would consider that unreasonable. I think it is perfectly reasonable to shoot on your own property during the day. A neighbor with a napping infant most likely would not feel the same way. It is up to the cop to determine "reasonableness" and act accordingly.


    Sec. 53a-181a. Creating a public disturbance: Infraction. (a) A person is guilty of creating a public disturbance when, with intent to cause inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he (1) engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous or threatening behavior; or (2) annoys or interferes with another person by offensive conduct; or (3) makes unreasonable noise.
    (b) Creating a public disturbance is an infraction.

    Sec. 53a-182. Disorderly conduct: Class C misdemeanor. (a) A person is guilty of disorderly conduct when, with intent to cause inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, such person: (1) Engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous or threatening behavior; or (2) by offensive or disorderly conduct, annoys or interferes with another person; or (3) makes unreasonable noise; or (4) without lawful authority, disturbs any lawful assembly or meeting of persons; or (5) obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic; or (6) congregates with other persons in a public place and refuses to comply with a reasonable official request or order to disperse; or (7) commits simple trespass, as provided in section 53a-110a, and observes, in other than a casual or cursory manner, another person (A) without the knowledge or consent of such other person, (B) while such other person is inside a dwelling, as defined in section 53a-100, and not in plain view, and (C) under circumstances where such other person has a reasonable expectation of privacy.

    (b) Disorderly conduct is a class C misdemeanor.

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    Regular Member Ctclassic's Avatar
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    Sideline, I too have had this EXACT thing happen to me about two years ago, but with a different outcome. I have several nephews and my son who do hunt (with landowners permission) out behind my house in the fall. I guess it was sometime in mid-late December, after all the corn was cut and the cold temps made a cow manure pile just hard enough, we figured it would make a great backstop to shoot against. Now mind you, I glassed the distance with my laser range finder and was just shy of 700' from the nearest house. We had 2 shotguns, 2 rifles and a couple handguns out there ( there were 6 of us ). I dont think we were there 15-20 minutes when off to our right through the inlet road to the field, drives a Plainfield cruiser, and stops because it was somewhat muddy. Over his P.A. hes wants us to stop firing and two of us to walk towards him so as to see our hands the whole way. He checked our permits (we said we had handguns) and ran our licenses. He told us he was responding to a complaint from a house nearby, and I told him we had permission to be out there and we were almost 700' away which was legal. Just about then, another cruiser pulled in behind this guy and as soon as i saw it was a Sgt. I thought we were screwed. Just the opposite, he told us that as long as we had permission etc. we were fine, at which time I turned to my nephew, "ah, lets go, we can go shoot somewhere else". To which the Sgt said, " have at it, your good here".
    I have been hunting out there for about 10 years with a particular wood ladder tree stand on the opposite end of the field from where this house is, and have never had an issue with it...except a few days later I was walking my Golden Retriever out there when I noticed someone decided to put a chain on it and TRY to yank it out of the tree...Hmmmm, you thinking what I'm thinking? I hope this helps.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    I think there is another aspect to this case that has to be considered.

    The OP is not the one who was shooting. His friends were. So there is some subjectivity the local law enforcement is going to try and enforce (although I am not up on what the legality to that will be) about what constitutes some private shooting on private property and what constitutes a shooting range. Certainly things do change at some point in the spectrum there, but I have no idea where.

    In my experience in LEO encounters, I have found a common point in them is that law enforcement very rarely knows how to just admit they made a mistake or that they have no legal rights and to just back down or reverse direction. Once they are in motion, they feel they must maintain that control or they will lose something.

    I would be willing to bet that as long as you find nothing in the law and they can cite nothing in the law that applies to your situation, and you are out there shooting, I bet they leave you alone. I think it is likely they are not going to want to keep pursuing this. IANAL though. I would suggest checking your legal foothold beforehand. That is just my take on it.

  10. #10
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    My recommendation would be to call Craig Fishbein at the Fishbein law firm in Wallingford.
    Agreed, surprised I didn't mention that earlier!

    I also forgot, there is a "gun rights attorney" that has a table at the gun shows (CT).

    Don't know who he is, but curious!

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    TO all that responded, thank you very the very credible points and different ways to look at it.
    Just to be clear, It is not a shooting range as i normally am the one shooting out here, and it s usually during the week, middle of the day for the past 15 years. Funny thing though, the gun clubs to which i fully support and have been there much longer then i've been alive, take the cake for noise during the weekends. no prob, used to it.
    The planes landing over my house are louder.
    I would think the PD would have to site them for noise if they were going to screw with me, which i've been advised is coming if i keep it up(great. really)

    I hate to do it but i'm going to take the" are you detaining me approach" from now on and provide nothing accept, am i free to go. This is my property! I think this sets the wrong tone but what else can i do. It's an uncharacteristic stance for me but think it's self protection time with respect to the law.

    AS for the lawyer, Since i wasn't present for this dibacol, I think it would be unwise to pursue the 2a lawyer until it's me as a reference, not a third party.
    My guess is within a month you here back from me being charged with something stupid just because the LEO's pen is mightier then the law and it will screw my life up for a while. (unsure if there's any recourse for this action)Hopefully i am wrong but my past dealings steer me differently.

    Just to be perfectly clear, I am not trying to bait the Pd, piss of the new neighbors or anything else negative. I simply would like to be left alone and go on as i have been for the past many years. Flip side, I need my ducks in a row if this escalates.
    Thank you for the knowledgeable info and please keep it coming as i hope to have a positive outcome.

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    How about setting up a meeting with the Chief and explain that you've been doing this for years and you do not feel the noise is unreasonable or rises to level of Creating a Public Disturbance and/or Disorderly Conduct. See what his thoughts are and see if he is a reasonable person. Perhaps he will tell his guys to leave you alone.

    When you go to shoot keep a voice recorder with you just in case they show up.

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    A government agent has no authority to come on your land without your consent.
    Put a No Trespassing sign at the end of your driveway. I have one and cops will not come on my land.
    My sign reads: No Trespassing, User fee, $7500. Per use Per day Per individual My choice.
    Then you can file a claim on any one that trespasses.

    If they are town or city cops, they are employees of a corporation.
    Last edited by Butch00; 10-25-2010 at 04:24 PM.
    Life is tough, its tougher when your stupid.

    http://www.itsnotthelaw.com

    Feds: U.C.C. 1-308, State: U.C.C. 1-207, Both: U.C.C. 1-103.6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch00 View Post
    A government agent has no authority to come on your land without your consent.
    Put a No Trespassing sign at the end of your driveway. I have one and cops will not come on my land.
    My sign reads: No Trespassing, User fee, $7500. Per use Per day Per individual My choice.
    Then you can file a claim on any one that trespasses.

    If they are town or city cops, they are employees of a corporation.
    Butch,

    If police are investigating a crime or potential crime being committed on your property I would argue the police are licensed or privileged to enter regardless of signs. Reference Open Fields Doctrine SCOTUS http://www.justice.gov/osg/briefs/1982/sg820022.txt

    CGS Sec. 53a-110a. Simple trespass: Infraction. (a) A person is guilty of simple trespass when, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters any premises without intent to harm any property.

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    Solve the problem with a phone call

    If you are more than 500' from a building and research your local zoning laws and ordinances to determine you are not in any type of violation, simply place a courtesy call to your local law enforcement dispatch center and inform them that you will be discharging firearms together with the location.

    Then if they recieve calls, they can simply tell the callers that they are aware of the situation. This notice to law enforcement provides Simple, honest, out in the open information that should be well received.

    If on the other hand law enforcement comes onto your property after being informed, you would be well within your rights to demand that they provide you with the authority under which they are there.

    SIMPLE!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by larch View Post
    Butch,

    If police are investigating a crime or potential crime being committed on your property I would argue the police are licensed or privileged to enter regardless of signs. Reference Open Fields Doctrine SCOTUS http://www.justice.gov/osg/briefs/1982/sg820022.txt

    CGS Sec. 53a-110a. Simple trespass: Infraction. (a) A person is guilty of simple trespass when, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters any premises without intent to harm any property.

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    The point you seem to miss is: The Feds, States, Towns and Cities are incorporated. A corporation ( artificial individual) has no authority over real people. Does the State, Towns and Cities use federal reserve notes, They are telling you they are operating outside the Constitution. The congress commited TREASON in 1933 when they passed HJR 192, read that then 27 CFR 72.11. Everything is commercial. If you can't do a little reshearch and educate yourself then you just stay a slave believing that you have to go to court. If that Right have been litigated once you don't have to do it again.
    Because law enforcers are working for corporations and they take oaths to uphold the constitutions you can file civil claims on them personally.
    Life is tough, its tougher when your stupid.

    http://www.itsnotthelaw.com

    Feds: U.C.C. 1-308, State: U.C.C. 1-207, Both: U.C.C. 1-103.6

  17. #17
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Butch,

    This forum is dedicated solely to gun rights within the framework of the US Constitution and the laws of the federal government and of the several states. Those who believe that states and localities do not have police power or similar such nonsense will not find a home here.


    John

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch00 View Post
    The point you seem to miss is: The Feds, States, Towns and Cities are incorporated. A corporation ( artificial individual) has no authority over real people. Does the State, Towns and Cities use federal reserve notes, They are telling you they are operating outside the Constitution. The congress commited TREASON in 1933 when they passed HJR 192, read that then 27 CFR 72.11. Everything is commercial. If you can't do a little reshearch and educate yourself then you just stay a slave believing that you have to go to court. If that Right have been litigated once you don't have to do it again.
    Because law enforcers are working for corporations and they take oaths to uphold the constitutions you can file civil claims on them personally.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    Seems like there are some new Admins on this site that do not realize that any discussion about guns on here is good discussion.

    I have been posting on this site for about 2 years and have only recently seen posts by admins that seem to be threatening to the posters (2 very recently)

    Maybe the First amendment died while we were discussing the Second amendment...LOL

  19. #19
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny Benedetto View Post
    Seems like there are some new Admins on this site that do not realize that any discussion about guns on here is good discussion.

    I have been posting on this site for about 2 years and have only recently seen posts by admins that seem to be threatening to the posters (2 very recently)

    Maybe the First amendment died while we were discussing the Second amendment...LOL
    I don't think that the admin is being unfair here. The OP has nothing to do with OC, and now we have someone from Alaska giving people advice that includes ignoring law enforcement and the government because he feels it is all illegal (or something).

    The OP is asking for legal advice for a real problem. The answer is not "There is no government!".

  20. #20
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    here's where it gets interesting though.

    Some people may make a post here, that may be a regular, that "vaguely" applies to OC or litigation in general. I like the idea of a slight expansion to cover legal issues.

    Any legal issue, really affects all of us in many respects.

    There may be other forums, but as my signature line says, i'm not welcome at the other forum simply because I only have gmail accounts.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Some people may make a post here, that may be a regular, that "vaguely" applies to OC or litigation in general. I like the idea of a slight expansion to cover legal issues.
    I don't think discussing whether or not our state and towns have policing powers or not falls under 'vaguely applying'.

  22. #22
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    I was playing the devils advocate there.

    I think the OP here is valid.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    Butch,

    This forum is dedicated solely to gun rights within the framework of the US Constitution and the laws of the federal government and of the several states. Those who believe that states and localities do not have police power or similar such nonsense will not find a home here.


    John
    I did not advocate anything illegal, I said research, and educate yourself.
    You can use civil process to go after the cops that violate your constitutional Rights personally.
    I have no problem with police power as long as it is used under Constitutional guidelines.
    When a cop takes an oath to uphold the Constitution then violates that oath, he commits a felony.
    That's where I have a problem. As soon as a cop violates his oath he should be fired.
    If I'm not welcome here so be it.
    Being from Alaska I am from a FREE State where I can carry anyway I chose almost anywhere
    I want without any hassles. So I guess I'll stop trying to help people.
    Life is tough, its tougher when your stupid.

    http://www.itsnotthelaw.com

    Feds: U.C.C. 1-308, State: U.C.C. 1-207, Both: U.C.C. 1-103.6

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch00 View Post
    I did not advocate anything illegal, I said research, and educate yourself.
    You can use civil process to go after the cops that violate your constitutional Rights personally.
    I have no problem with police power as long as it is used under Constitutional guidelines.
    When a cop takes an oath to uphold the Constitution then violates that oath, he commits a felony.
    That's where I have a problem. As soon as a cop violates his oath he should be fired.
    If I'm not welcome here so be it.
    Being from Alaska I am from a FREE State where I can carry anyway I chose almost anywhere
    I want without any hassles. So I guess I'll stop trying to help people.
    This sight has some of the best minds in CT when it comes to assertively exercising our rights within the law.

    I completely understand why the OP would post here. I think he should be allowed to.

    With respect to the 1st amendment, it only applies to governments. In summary, this is a privately owned and operated internet site, if you don't like their rules you are free to go somewhere else.

    Don

  25. #25
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcmdon View Post
    This sight has some of the best minds in CT when it comes to assertively exercising our rights within the law.

    I completely understand why the OP would post here. I think he should be allowed to.

    With respect to the 1st amendment, it only applies to governments. In summary, this is a privately owned and operated internet site, if you don't like their rules you are free to go somewhere else.

    Don
    I don't understand how your statements have any context with the person you quoted.

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