so is this false bravado, or standing up for myself?

1FASTC4 said:

Cool. The floor under the ice sheet used to be painted blue. It made the ice look sort of milky blue.. was pretty cool.

Click to expand...

Last time I was there was in the 1970's. I'll take your word for it.

wow, ill just get my gun and go scare the neighbors.

Justincase said:

Yes, it was false bravado.

If you have to ask..you know the rest.

Click to expand...

Remember, its not a gun fight until someone brings a gun

Nooooooo! it's not a gun fight until someone attempts to disarm, or use lethal force against someone who is lawfully carrying a gun. guns cause fights like flies cause garbage.

I'm always armed. I don't see any problem with what you did.

McX said:

Nooooooo! it's not a gun fight until someone attempts to disarm, or use lethal force against someone who is lawfully carrying a gun. guns cause fights like flies cause garbage.

Click to expand...

I like mine better. "Guns cause gun violence like diapers cause people to poop." Same crappy logic!

phred said:

... four points to keep in mind should a defensive shooting situation occur. Number one was You must be a reluctant participant. In other words, you cannot go looking for a fight. You must be innocent of instigation or provocation. Had the confrontation with the boomboxers gone south, a jury would have little doubt that if the gun hadn't been there, or had the confronter tried other means, the deadly situation may not have occurred.

Click to expand...

Asking them politely to stop breaking the law [not in those words, no] was instigation & looking for a fight?
If that reasoning holds true, it's all the more reason to have the means to protect myself from their response.

I didn't go "looking for a fight", I went to ask them to turn down the noise. I thought that they might be a bit reluctant to do so, because they'd been ignoring the law for a couple hours already, and didn't want it to devolve into several of them beating on one of me, so carried for my own protection.

If I hadn't been armed, and they had gotten upset, a deadly situation may well have occurred - one where I ended up beaten to a pulp by the 3 of them. (And I'd make a lot of pulp... not a pretty sight.)

I looked at city records to find the address & owner, and now have a phone # for future use... if they can hear it. If they don't, at least I can tell the police I tried to contact him. Now back to hiding in my house & hoping they'll eventually shut up, 'cause the police won't do anything in time.

wow, ill just get my gun and go scare the neighbors.

Click to expand...

running in circles said:

Remember, its not a gun fight until someone brings a gun

Click to expand...

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/forewarned-is-forearmed.html

MKEgal said:

I didn't go "looking for a fight", .

Click to expand...

I believe you. Can you prove you didn't go looking for a fight to a jury? You wore dark clothes and you were armed.
You initiated the confrontation and were armed. In their version of the story, the other party isn't going to paint you as a friendly person who politely asked to turn the music down... they will try to paint you as the bad guy. Let's say, in the end, it's their word against yours... YOU initiated the confrontation and were armed. Can you really not see how this could be problematic if violence broke out?

You say you politely asked them to turn down the music... again I believe you. Give this some thought: To the other party, your intention doesn't matter, their perception of you does. They saw a person with a gun, isn't it possible that appeared a little less than polite? They even complained to you about bringing a gun....that's a pretty good sign they saw you as something less than friendly.

I'm not saying you should have gone over there unarmed. If you were truly scared, you shouldn't have gone over there at all.

This is not a very far reach:

Police: Why did you go over there?
MKEgal: To ask them to turn down the music
Police: Why did you have a gun?
MKEgal: I was afraid of them
Police: Why didn't you call the police?
MKEgal: Because you guys would have taken too long
Police: so you strapped on a gun and took the law into your own hands?
MKEgal: I told you, I was afraid of them.
Police: If that were true, you should have called us. They say you threatened them with the gun.
MKEgal: I didn't!
Police: Put your hands on the hood of the car please.
MKEgal: Do I need a lawyer? Are you arresting me?
Police: You have the right to remain silent.......

Looking for a fight?

In my mind she should not need to PROVE that she didn't go to instigate a fight. It should be the other party that would need to prove this... SOMETHING ABOUT INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!

JoeSparky said:

In my mind she should not need to PROVE that she didn't go to instigate a fight. It should be the other party that would need to prove this... SOMETHING ABOUT INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!

Click to expand...

The cops cant read her mind... and if the other party gives a different story there could be a problem.

If the other party gives a different story... say that she was threatening, then the cops KNOW only a couple of things.

They KNOW that MKEgal initiated the confrontaion by approaching the other party on their private property. They KNOW MKEgal was armed with a gun.
Edit:That's not a good start for MKE as far as the police determining what actually happened.

Look, I'm not assaulting the choice to OC. I carry every day either OC or CC depending on what my shirt is doing. I'm not even accusing MKE of "false bravado". Actually, I admire that she faced something she was afraid of head on. I'm only suggesting that THIS scenario could have caused our MKEgal some real headaches and, since it was completely avoidable, it wasn't worth it.

omg, we now have a spartacus from arizona.

MKEgal said:

Asking them politely to stop breaking the law [not in those words, no] was instigation & looking for a fight?
If that reasoning holds true, it's all the more reason to have the means to protect myself from their response.

I didn't go "looking for a fight", I went to ask them to turn down the noise. I thought that they might be a bit reluctant to do so, because they'd been ignoring the law for a couple hours already, and didn't want it to devolve into several of them beating on one of me, so carried for my own protection.

If I hadn't been armed, and they had gotten upset, a deadly situation may well have occurred - one where I ended up beaten to a pulp by the 3 of them. (And I'd make a lot of pulp... not a pretty sight.)

I looked at city records to find the address & owner, and now have a phone # for future use... if they can hear it. If they don't, at least I can tell the police I tried to contact him. Now back to hiding in my house & hoping they'll eventually shut up, 'cause the police won't do anything in time.

Click to expand...

I go armed almost everywhere sunup to bedtime so I would not Disarm to take a trip over to the neighbors house to make a polite request. There would be no question of arming up because I was scared, it is a constant precaution. Even if I am in my pj's I would take my sidearm with me outside at night. I don't feel it is instigation at all, it is my lifestyle.

This is getting out of hand. If she wanted to be put on trial she could have posted on Democrat Underground forum instead of here.

Springfielddx40 said:

omg, we now have a spartacus from arizona.

Click to expand...

I like ours better.

oak1971 said:

This is getting out of hand. If she wanted to be put on trial she could have posted on Democrat Underground forum instead of here.

Click to expand...

Wow, suddenly I'm compared to some Spartacus guy and it's out of hand because I didn't get in line to kiss her butt.

So what you guys really mean when you ask for an opinion is: Say something to make me feel good or don't bother to type anything.... Your experience and knowledge are not welcome here and if you disagree you are a closet anti and a democrat.

I'll say it one more time then I'll go away forever. I'll not trouble the members of this websight ever again:

The issue isn't whether she should open carry. The issue is that she INITIATED a confrontation while openly armed. For those of you who cannot see past " I can open carry, it's legal and I always open carry!!!" this is a problem. LE would almost certainly assume she was the aggressor in the scenario because she started it. She wasn't rescuing a drowning baby, saving someone from being mugged, or rescuing a helpless old man from a bear attack. There was some loud music. The possible outcomes made it....not worth it.

I'll be moving to Minocqua in mid December. If any of you people are ever in that area, please wear a patch or something to ID yourselves as members of this websight so I don't get in a discussion with you, you already know everything, even when you ask opinions. lol. I'll be easy to spot. I'm the hard core conservative who is open carrying but avoiding anyone else is OC'ing in case they might be a member of this web sight.

MKEgal, I'm glad it worked out well for you. Best wishes.

All righty then!!!

Ill say it....
im glad this decision is final!!!

quote, " I'll say it one more time then I'll go away forever. I'll not trouble the members of this websight ever again:" end quote

1FASTC4 said:

The issue isn't whether she should open carry. The issue is that she INITIATED a confrontation while openly armed. For those of you who cannot see past " I can open carry, it's legal and I always open carry!!!" this is a problem. LE would almost certainly assume she was the aggressor in the scenario because she started it. She wasn't rescuing a drowning baby, saving someone from being mugged, or rescuing a helpless old man from a bear attack. There was some loud music. The possible outcomes made it....not worth it.

I'll be moving to Minocqua in mid December. If any of you people are ever in that area, please wear a patch or something to ID yourselves as members of this websight so I don't get in a discussion with you, you already know everything, even when you ask opinions. lol. I'll be easy to spot. I'm the hard core conservative who is open carrying but avoiding anyone else is OC'ing in case they might be a member of this web sight.

MKEgal, I'm glad it worked out well for you. Best wishes.

Click to expand...

Except aggressors make threats. She asked them to turn down the music. In WI, merely OCing a firearm does not make for DC, nor would it be showing any type of "aggression." IANAL, but I'm sure a half decent one (and WCI has some pretty good lawyers) can convince a jury of that.

We aren't mean to people, we are just trying to show people what common sense is all about.

I Second That!

1245A Defender said:

Ill say it....
im glad this decision is final!!!

quote, " I'll say it one more time then I'll go away forever. I'll not trouble the members of this websight ever again:" end quote

Click to expand...

And to those that are still reading this thread and stating "She instigated it" or "She will have to prove it in court" I have to say once again that you people do NOT know us at all. All of us that are posting in this thread carry video and or audio recorders at ALL TIMES. MKEgal especially since she was illegally detained, arrested and treated like a criminal not long ago.

So we DO have proof we were nice and not aggressive because we carry recorders that are RECORDING while we open carry. Heck, my recorder records EVERY dog walk even when I am not carrying because of a crazy neighbor we have where I live.

For the guy moving here soon from Arizona I highly suggest you prepare yourself for a shock. This ain't Arizona! Most police WILL at least question you IF they see you wearing your gun. Sooner or later you will get tired of it and start standing up for your rights. In these "encounters" with the police if anything happens you will be detained and perhaps arrested and charged for obstruction of justice and/or disorderly conduct. No proof? Better get a video/audio recorder and be ready to use it in a moments notice.

I'll be moving to Minocqua in mid December.

Click to expand...

From Arizona to December in Wisconsin should be all the shock he can stand for a week or so. Make sure you bring a shovel. Not for the BS, but for the snow!

Hey! I like the snow!

Yes, the snow will be hitting Wisconsin by then as well as the -20F temperature that we sometimes get.