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Thread: LAPD Still Hasn't Learned.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    LAPD Still Hasn't Learned.

    It seems the LAPD hasn't learned a FN thing about interacting with lawful carriers of firearms. This fact was reinforced to me today when Mrs. Hunt and I were at a favorite local restaurant having some post-church grub. They showed up just about the time our food was ready (figures) and of course threw me in cuffs right from the get go. Took em' a while though, as despite stretching and yoga, I am just not a one-set-of-cuffs kinda guy LOL. The a-holes actually remarked about my big shoulders, yet not one of the 20+ responding cops could seem to donate an extra pair of cuffs. Thanks guys!

    So they take my pistol, take me outside and start the interrogation. I gave my name this time, but pretty much refused to give any other personal info. This didn't matter much however, because they took my wallet anyways in defiance of my verbal refusal.

    The officer doing most of the talking/interrogating was impervious to any kind of logic, reason, PC or even case law that I politely tried to inform him of. In fact, when asked if he'd seen his own DA's memo (which specifically tells him NOT to do what he's doing), he actually said that he hadn't, and their department's memo says that doing this is legit. I want to see that memo....

    Well the handcuffs came off after about 10 minutes and a few more attempts to inform and educate were again only met with more ignorance and tyrannical thinking. Got my wallet and weapon back and went back inside to eat. That's when I noticed something both interesting and disheartening. The place I'd been in which had been well over 1/2 full only minutes earlier..... was damn near empty! Lemme just explain this to make it clear. I've carried at this place on many occasions. Never had a problem, and most people hardly bat an eyelash. But of course LAPD has to show up in their usual fascion (spelling intended), bringing in everyone but the USMC to deal with this "threat". THIS is what freaked people out and cleared out that restaurant. THIS is the THREAT! THIS undoubtedly cost that restaurant owner a good chunk of $$$!

    I spoke with that owner after finishing our meal, and he actually seems to be a fairly pro-2A guy. So not all is lost there and I'm definitely gonna get some info together to give him on our next visit. (Seems he wants to carry there, and didn't know it was legal.)

    Well thanks for listening to me rant here. I'm gonna go and get some air rifle practice in at a secret spot where LAPD can't tread.

    CARRY ON!

  2. #2
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Probably not enough for a lawsuit, but I certainly would file an official complaint against the officers. It don't look good on their record.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    recording?

    Since it is you, I know this is a dumb question...but...did you record it, and when can we see it? I need to go get the popcorn ready.

    The only way to educate them is to hold regular OC group meetings in every LAPD division. Based on past problems, that can be a unpleasant OC experience. They know what they are doing, F-ing with the OCer's is having a chilling effect. Non group OC encounters with LAPD is a risky thing to do.When 20 undertrained cops with guns drawn show up,really bad mistakes can be made, and it won't be them that gets shot or hurt.
    Last edited by oc4ever; 10-24-2010 at 11:54 PM.

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    Complaint? are you kidding?

    GUNDUDE,


    The LAPD does not function like a normal police department responsive to the community. If their is a gun involved in a call, they think it gives the officers involved Carte Blanche to jack you up physically for"officer safety" Screw citizen safety or physical harm, that does not count in their minds. A complaint will go nowhere, I can bet not one officer involved appoligized for the handcuffing and detainment. They believe Mike was just wasting their valuable time.

    I think multiple encounters of right s violations , which he has had, and documented/recorded proof for a lawsuit that they have to defend and pay big time is the only way to get top police brass attention. Money/lawyers talk,.... citizen complaints, walk.
    Last edited by oc4ever; 10-24-2010 at 06:47 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Maybe a call to Jason Davis would be in order. He could advise on what to do. Mike was definately violated, but not to the extent that Sam was.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  6. #6
    Regular Member leoffensive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hunt View Post
    It seems the LAPD hasn't learned a FN thing about interacting with lawful carriers of firearms. This fact was reinforced to me today when Mrs. Hunt and I were at a favorite local restaurant having some post-church grub. They showed up just about the time our food was ready (figures) and of course threw me in cuffs right from the get go. Took em' a while though, as despite stretching and yoga, I am just not a one-set-of-cuffs kinda guy LOL. The a-holes actually remarked about my big shoulders, yet not one of the 20+ responding cops could seem to donate an extra pair of cuffs. Thanks guys!

    So they take my pistol, take me outside and start the interrogation. I gave my name this time, but pretty much refused to give any other personal info. This didn't matter much however, because they took my wallet anyways in defiance of my verbal refusal.

    The officer doing most of the talking/interrogating was impervious to any kind of logic, reason, PC or even case law that I politely tried to inform him of. In fact, when asked if he'd seen his own DA's memo (which specifically tells him NOT to do what he's doing), he actually said that he hadn't, and their department's memo says that doing this is legit. I want to see that memo....

    Well the handcuffs came off after about 10 minutes and a few more attempts to inform and educate were again only met with more ignorance and tyrannical thinking. Got my wallet and weapon back and went back inside to eat. That's when I noticed something both interesting and disheartening. The place I'd been in which had been well over 1/2 full only minutes earlier..... was damn near empty! Lemme just explain this to make it clear. I've carried at this place on many occasions. Never had a problem, and most people hardly bat an eyelash. But of course LAPD has to show up in their usual fascion (spelling intended), bringing in everyone but the USMC to deal with this "threat". THIS is what freaked people out and cleared out that restaurant. THIS is the THREAT! THIS undoubtedly cost that restaurant owner a good chunk of $$$!

    I spoke with that owner after finishing our meal, and he actually seems to be a fairly pro-2A guy. So not all is lost there and I'm definitely gonna get some info together to give him on our next visit. (Seems he wants to carry there, and didn't know it was legal.)

    Well thanks for listening to me rant here. I'm gonna go and get some air rifle practice in at a secret spot where LAPD can't tread.

    CARRY ON!

    haha wowza lol good thing your wife didnt post this or me and chewy would have to go back for round 2! hahaha

  7. #7
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hunt View Post
    But of course LAPD has to show up in their usual fascion (spelling intended), bringing in everyone but the USMC to deal with this "threat". THIS is what freaked people out and cleared out that restaurant. THIS is the THREAT! THIS undoubtedly cost that restaurant owner a good chunk of $$$!
    The LAPD has, in their zeal to offend your rights and startle the onlookers, given you the remedy to their misappropriation of force.

    While I do not wholly support large open carry demonstrations, I would say that the restaurant should be filled to capacity with open carry advocates and supporters (ie: paying customers). This could to some degree mitigate some of the owner's losses. When* the police show up en masse to enforce their will up on the lowly citizens, the video cameras come out, and as many as are comfortable with it, decline to identify or provide photo ID. Either they treat everyone in the same manner, doing only what is authorized or waste their time and tax payer monies investigating a non-crime.

    * They might need to be invited via an anonymous call by a concerned onlooker.
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  8. #8
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    There are clear fourth amendment violations here. I always say this, and it always goes unheard, but the way to get this behavior to stop is to sue them. Utilize your right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

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    two things

    A. as far as I'm concerned, you have enough to sue. they can't do that ****. if it happened to me like that, I'd take my old briefs and do a global find and replace for names and places and send it in.

    2. This won't stop until someone gets sued and you have law and precedent on your side now. Call jason davis.

    D. If you want to put together a big oc LA event, I am all over it. I might even come in a kilt.

    -elsensei

  10. #10
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    Sue for very large dollars. If they want to settle, settle for very large dollars.


    I second another LA gathering, and I'll once again come on down for the festivities.

  11. #11
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    I'm not going to kibitz on the lawsuit thing, but thanks for doing the American thing. I was in cuffs this month too, and although I am proud of my work, it does not reflect well on the state of our state. And by the way, the Mayor of LA is the one who should be in handcuffs.

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    When LEO pays for ecroaching on "well established" rights, illegal search and...

    Quote Originally Posted by elsensei View Post
    A. as far as I'm concerned, you have enough to sue. they can't do that ****. if it happened to me like that, I'd take my old briefs and do a global find and replace for names and places and send it in.

    2. This won't stop until someone gets sued and you have law and precedent on your side now. Call jason davis.

    D. If you want to put together a big oc LA event, I am all over it. I might even come in a kilt.

    -elsensei
    elsensei is correct! However, he does not go far enough.

    When an LAPD LEO personally pays for encroaching on "well established" civil rights, these incidents will end.

    The LEO who detained you illegally needs to lose his qualified immunity, and he needs to write a personal check to cover his lawless behavior. Remember, his lawless behavior was under "the color of authority" which make his law-breaking a hienous crime.

    Just because there is no penal code section that makes violating one's civil rights a criminal act, does not negate the fact that it is.

    The LEO who detained you illegally needs to pay with his own money! Or, he needs to produce the "reasonable articulable suspicion" for your detainment, and it had better be based on case law.

    markm

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    correct!

    section 1983 of the united states code. look it up. these clowns can't claim qualified immunity any more. if OC isn't a settled point of law by now, i don't know what is.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=oc4ever;1385754]Since it is you, I know this is a dumb question...but...did you record it, and when can we see it? QUOTE]

    No I didn't have the recorder running. It was charging in the truck. I know that's no excuse, as I shouldn't have even carried W/O it. Everyone on here knows how I have ranted about the importance of this, so my bad on that one.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=oc4ever;1385762]GUNDUDE,


    The LAPD does not function like a normal police department responsive to the community. If their is a gun involved in a call, they think it gives the officers involved Carte Blanche to jack you up physically for"officer safety" Screw citizen safety or physical harm, that does not count in their minds. QUOTE]

    Yep, they see it as their "Golden Ticket", and that has got to change.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leoffensive View Post
    haha wowza lol good thing your wife didnt post this or me and chewy would have to go back for round 2! hahaha
    Hey man I PM'd you like a week ago! Check your messages and gimme a jingle!

  17. #17
    Regular Member leoffensive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    The LAPD has, in their zeal to offend your rights and startle the onlookers, given you the remedy to their misappropriation of force.

    While I do not wholly support large open carry demonstrations, I would say that the restaurant should be filled to capacity with open carry advocates and supporters (ie: paying customers). This could to some degree mitigate some of the owner's losses. When* the police show up en masse to enforce their will up on the lowly citizens, the video cameras come out, and as many as are comfortable with it, decline to identify or provide photo ID. Either they treat everyone in the same manner, doing only what is authorized or waste their time and tax payer monies investigating a non-crime.

    * They might need to be invited via an anonymous call by a concerned onlooker.
    haha thats a damn good idea you sneak sombitch haha its soo crazy it just might work!!!!

    id be down. it would be like one of those flashmobs haha

  18. #18
    Regular Member leoffensive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hunt View Post
    Hey man I PM'd you like a week ago! Check your messages and gimme a jingle!
    haha alright.

    sorry i have always had a real hard time with the pms on this site and even more so with the new set up.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    The LAPD has, in their zeal to offend your rights and startle the onlookers, given you the remedy to their misappropriation of force.

    While I do not wholly support large open carry demonstrations, I would say that the restaurant should be filled to capacity with open carry advocates and supporters (ie: paying customers). This could to some degree mitigate some of the owner's losses. When* the police show up en masse to enforce their will up on the lowly citizens, the video cameras come out, and as many as are comfortable with it, decline to identify or provide photo ID. Either they treat everyone in the same manner, doing only what is authorized or waste their time and tax payer monies investigating a non-crime.

    * They might need to be invited via an anonymous call by a concerned onlooker.
    Well I AM starting to see a pattern here.....
    I really am a fan of the "uneventful" carry that some on this board have advocated, but it seems that in some areas, going it alone is only emboldening the LAPD to violate us with impunity. In this case, I agree that larger numbers of carriers may truly be more beneficial.

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    1983 works

    I don't want to reveal the circumstances, but I have also won a "1983" case that was appealed to the California Supreme Court by the City I sued. Besides the jury award in my favor, that city was forced to pay all my legal fees, my attorneys fees pre and post appeal, interest, court cost, COURT transcribing of the trial, and all reimbursements for cost of the appeal they filed. All said and done, it nearly doubled the ultimate payout that the jury had awarded initially. Nobody said these city attorneys are very smart; they should have wisely cut their losses from the trial loss. I had the resources to self fund the legal cost upfront. It was a 2 plus year drama that was hard, but in the end justice did prevail, and a 6 figure check came from the offending city.

    If an attorney takes this case, he will win and get reimbursed for his cost. The civil rights violations are cut and dry. Mike might not get much, due to the low detainment time, but a payout from the personal checkbook of the offending officer, will cause all this 'cuffing and gun grabbing to grind to a QUICK stop in Los Angeles. The fastest place bad news travels quickly is in a police department when the LEO's have to pay the judge(ment) out of their paycheck.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    There are clear fourth amendment violations here. I always say this, and it always goes unheard, but the way to get this behavior to stop is to sue them. Utilize your right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
    Quote Originally Posted by elsensei View Post
    A. as far as I'm concerned, you have enough to sue. they can't do that ****. if it happened to me like that, I'd take my old briefs and do a global find and replace for names and places and send it in.

    2. This won't stop until someone gets sued and you have law and precedent on your side now. Call jason davis.

    D. If you want to put together a big oc LA event, I am all over it. I might even come in a kilt.

    -elsensei
    Quote Originally Posted by Army View Post
    Sue for very large dollars. If they want to settle, settle for very large dollars.


    I second another LA gathering, and I'll once again come on down for the festivities.
    I hate suing, although I don't disagree with you guys totally. It may be the only thing that will ring their bell.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AyatollahGondola View Post
    I'm not going to kibitz on the lawsuit thing, but thanks for doing the American thing. I was in cuffs this month too, and although I am proud of my work, it does not reflect well on the state of our state. And by the way, the Mayor of LA is the one who should be in handcuffs.
    Yeah I'm no fan of Mayor Vivalaraza either. He's an unapologetic anti-2A-er.

  23. #23
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    The lack of a recording may not be all that bad here. Seems like there were plenty of eyewitnesses. Suing sucks, but if I were you, I'd sue them, go after their (un)qualified immunity and sue them personally.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    When* the [LAPD] show[s] up en masse to enforce their will up on the lowly citizens, the video cameras come out, and as many as are comfortable with it, decline to identify or provide photo ID. Either they treat everyone in the same manner, doing only what is authorized or waste their time and tax payer monies investigating a non-crime.

    * They might need to be invited via an anonymous call by a concerned onlooker.
    With plenty of pro-2A media present around the corner or having "their own" meeting next door.

    Seriously, the LAPD isn't just out to luch when it comes to handling these issues. They're dehydrated and adrift on a raft half-way to the South Pacific while watching B&W reruns of Elliot Ness on a projector with the bulb long since burned out and the film made soggy by salt water.

    Here's how they should be handling it.

    And how about lawsuit for wasting taxpayer monies for investigating a non-crime? In this recession, that's a viable away to address is, as many Kalifornicans have long since thrown their civil rights out the window. They wouldn't recognize half their civil rights if they walking up and knocked on their door.
    Last edited by since9; 10-25-2010 at 01:50 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    The LAPD has, in their zeal to offend your rights and startle the onlookers, given you the remedy to their misappropriation of force.

    While I do not wholly support large open carry demonstrations, I would say that the restaurant should be filled to capacity with open carry advocates and supporters (ie: paying customers). This could to some degree mitigate some of the owner's losses. When* the police show up en masse to enforce their will up on the lowly citizens, the video cameras come out, and as many as are comfortable with it, decline to identify or provide photo ID. Either they treat everyone in the same manner, doing only what is authorized or waste their time and tax payer monies investigating a non-crime.

    * They might need to be invited via an anonymous call by a concerned onlooker.
    I think CT is right. We need to fill that restaurant up with OCers. Set it up mike. We can print out LAPDs memo and post it on the doors. We have a good 10-15 regular OCers in San Diego that I know of and SBOC has a million lol so we could do it easily.

    I also agree with contacting Jason Davis. This is nothing but harassement now as this is the third time they have done this this year. I still have my audio if you need it to give to JD.

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