LAPD Still Hasn't Learned.

Mike Hawk · Oct 25, 2010

bigtoe416 said:
There are clear fourth amendment violations here. I always say this, and it always goes unheard, but the way to get this behavior to stop is to sue them. Utilize your right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

elsensei said:
A. as far as I'm concerned, you have enough to sue. they can't do that ****. if it happened to me like that, I'd take my old briefs and do a global find and replace for names and places and send it in.

2. This won't stop until someone gets sued and you have law and precedent on your side now. Call jason davis.

D. If you want to put together a big oc LA event, I am all over it. I might even come in a kilt.

-elsensei

Army said:
Sue for very large dollars. If they want to settle, settle for very large dollars.

I second another LA gathering, and I'll once again come on down for the festivities.

I hate suing, although I don't disagree with you guys totally. It may be the only thing that will ring their bell.:banghead:

Ca Patriot · Oct 25, 2010

Can you tell us where this occured ?

Mike Hawk · Oct 25, 2010

AyatollahGondola said:
I'm not going to kibitz on the lawsuit thing, but thanks for doing the American thing. I was in cuffs this month too, and although I am proud of my work, it does not reflect well on the state of our state. And by the way, the Mayor of LA is the one who should be in handcuffs.

Yeah I'm no fan of Mayor Vivalaraza either. He's an unapologetic anti-2A-er.

coolusername2007 · Oct 25, 2010

The lack of a recording may not be all that bad here. Seems like there were plenty of eyewitnesses. Suing sucks, but if I were you, I'd sue them, go after their (un)qualified immunity and sue them personally.

since9 · Oct 25, 2010

ConditionThree said:
When* the [LAPD] show up en masse to enforce their will up on the lowly citizens, the video cameras come out, and as many as are comfortable with it, decline to identify or provide photo ID. Either they treat everyone in the same manner, doing only what is authorized or waste their time and tax payer monies investigating a non-crime.

* They might need to be invited via an anonymous call by a concerned onlooker.

With plenty of pro-2A media present around the corner or having "their own" meeting next door.

Seriously, the LAPD isn't just out to luch when it comes to handling these issues. They're dehydrated and adrift on a raft half-way to the South Pacific while watching B&W reruns of Elliot Ness on a projector with the bulb long since burned out and the film made soggy by salt water.

Here's how they should be handling it.

And how about lawsuit for wasting taxpayer monies for investigating a non-crime? In this recession, that's a viable away to address is, as many Kalifornicans have long since thrown their civil rights out the window. They wouldn't recognize half their civil rights if they walking up and knocked on their door.

chewy352 · Oct 25, 2010

ConditionThree said:
The LAPD has, in their zeal to offend your rights and startle the onlookers, given you the remedy to their misappropriation of force.

While I do not wholly support large open carry demonstrations, I would say that the restaurant should be filled to capacity with open carry advocates and supporters (ie: paying customers). This could to some degree mitigate some of the owner's losses. When* the police show up en masse to enforce their will up on the lowly citizens, the video cameras come out, and as many as are comfortable with it, decline to identify or provide photo ID. Either they treat everyone in the same manner, doing only what is authorized or waste their time and tax payer monies investigating a non-crime.

* They might need to be invited via an anonymous call by a concerned onlooker.

I think CT is right. We need to fill that restaurant up with OCers. Set it up mike. We can print out LAPDs memo and post it on the doors. We have a good 10-15 regular OCers in San Diego that I know of and SBOC has a million lol so we could do it easily.

I also agree with contacting Jason Davis. This is nothing but harassement now as this is the third time they have done this this year. I still have my audio if you need it to give to JD.

KBCraig · Oct 25, 2010

oc4ever said:
I don't want to reveal the circumstances, but I have also won a "1983" case that was appealed to the California Supreme Court by the City I sued.

Clarify, please?

A "1983" case is brought under 42 USC 1983 in federal court, for a violation of federal civil rights laws. How did you case wind up in the California Supreme Court if it was a 1983 case?

Mike · Oct 25, 2010

Gundude said:
Probably not enough for a lawsuit, but I certainly would file an official complaint against the officers. It don't look good on their record.

Huh? Come on - unlawful seizure is actionable. Untill you sue them, this will continue.

hgreen · Oct 25, 2010

SBOC Full Support

Mike,
As I'm sure you know SBOC would love to help you hold a mass OC demonstration at this restaurant whenever we can work out a date.

Shoot me an email with details of where and when, and we'll make it happen!

email@southbayopencarry.org

Firemark · Oct 25, 2010

chewy352 said:
I think CT is right. We need to fill that restaurant up with OCers. Set it up mike. We can print out LAPDs memo and post it on the doors. We have a good 10-15 regular OCers in San Diego that I know of and SBOC has a million lol so we could do it easily.

I also agree with contacting Jason Davis. This is nothing but harassement now as this is the third time they have done this this year. I still have my audio if you need it to give to JD.

The problem as I see it is, im sure LAPD monitors this website, and already knows of this discussion, so in all likelyhood if you identify the restaurant, the time and date of a large gathering, they will not respond in the same manner as before. They will assign plain clothed officers to monitor and watch but show no police presence.

If you really want to do this right, do not discuss this on an open forum such as this, someone set up a private discussion with restricted access to "known" OC'rs and dont give any info to the PD... Then have 1 Person OC at the location designated, with everyone else standing by offsite. Draw the 911 call from a panic'd citizen, then get your 20+ officers to show up all gung ho and violate the lone OC'rs rights, then have the rest of the group join them in the area. Otherwise this exercise will be pointless cause LAPD will use a different tactic.

If the lone OC'r can be Jason Davis even better. Throw in a few covert, non carrying surveillence video people, then you will have what you need, PD caught with their pants down.

elsensei · Oct 25, 2010

+1

firemark knows of what he speaks. take it off public forum and set it up.

if you don't, I will, and it will be something pretty flamboyant.

DEFENSOR · Oct 25, 2010

We owe you lunch.

Hey buddy lets go back there as a group. I still owe you lunch and it would be a great reason to get OC'ers
together.

hgreen · Oct 25, 2010

Firemark said:
The problem as I see it is, im sure LAPD monitors this website, and already knows of this discussion, so in all likelyhood if you identify the restaurant, the time and date of a large gathering, they will not respond in the same manner as before. They will assign plain clothed officers to monitor and watch but show no police presence.

If you really want to do this right, do not discuss this on an open forum such as this, someone set up a private discussion with restricted access to "known" OC'rs and dont give any info to the PD... Then have 1 Person OC at the location designated, with everyone else standing by offsite. Draw the 911 call from a panic'd citizen, then get your 20+ officers to show up all gung ho and violate the lone OC'rs rights, then have the rest of the group join them in the area. Otherwise this exercise will be pointless cause LAPD will use a different tactic.

If the lone OC'r can be Jason Davis even better. Throw in a few covert, non carrying surveillence video people, then you will have what you need, PD caught with their pants down.

I can set up a private email discussion list on SBOC, would just need people to give me their emails through trusted channel.

Let me know if anyone is interested in such a list.

Firemark · Oct 25, 2010

hgreen said:
I can set up a private email discussion list on SBOC, would just need people to give me their emails through trusted channel.

Let me know if anyone is interested in such a list.

YES!!!! I vote for that, please everyone discuss the events of what happend here, generate interest amongst OC'rs, but DO NOT speak of any follow up events, or locations or times, all tactical discussions MUST be done on a secure location, and Harley make sure each person allowed access is vouched for and can be trusted to not leak info to outside sources.

hgreen · Oct 25, 2010

New private email list created:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?82361-New-Private-OC-List

Michigander · Oct 25, 2010

An agency as large and corrupt as this one will think very little of your complaints, typically doing exactly nothing with them. Nor is it likely that in a city that dangerous with that much corruption that any government agency with oversight will step in on the behalf of any open carrier, even if he or she gets the **** beat out of him or her. Showing up in large groups will similarly do nothing, other than probably ensure the safety of that group on that day.

The one and only option that will be taken seriously is law suits that are aimed not only at the agency, but individual criminal officers as well, and even their supervisors. I suggest federal law suits managed by the best attorneys you can find. File them often.

In order to do a good lawsuit, off the forums, and if possible even not involving any form of electronic communication, OCers in areas like this need to set up investigations utilizing hidden cameras, freedom of information requests, and "stunts" where you film people who go into areas knowing they will get abused by police, then getting them to run their mouthes and admit to crimes which is usually the easiest part. Most of these things should be kept as quiet as possible, only being shown to those who are involved, and to the excellent lawyers you'll need to help you. I would also suggest that only people who have known each other for years and are exceptionally sure that those involved are not government agents should work together. I also suggest never ever making this information public, until after it gets used in court, at which point it will become public anyway.

It takes years of hard work, dedication, and a lot of money or friendly to the cause legal council to remedy situations like this. And even if lawyers volunteer their services, they will likely not spend their own money to file the suit.

The only other option is getting intensive positive national media attention which shows you to be the freedom fighters taking on the abusive criminal cops. And that is about as likely as California adopting 10th amendment gun soveignty within a month.

Publius · Oct 25, 2010

So glad I live in Nor Cal, not that things are perfect here, but they do seem better than in So Cal : /

leoffensive · Oct 25, 2010

well i think i subscribed to that thing but its damn ass confusing.

if i cant figure it out ill just rely on someone else then.

kwikrnu · Oct 25, 2010

subscribe

hgreen · Oct 25, 2010

Hey Guys,
If I don't know you personally I need you to email me your involvement in OC and who can vouch for you.

Otherwise just join our general open carry discussion list:
http://lists.southbayopencarry.org/listinfo.cgi/southbayopencarry-southbayopencarry.org

LAPD Still Hasn't Learned.

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