AZ open carry

azcdlfred said:

Your sources are incorrect. Don't believe what you are told (even here!) without an Arizona statute or case law to back it up. Arizona statutes and case law should be your only sources.

ARS 13-3102 are the statutes dealing with "weapons misconduct."

ARS 13-3102.A.2 says that under 21 "concealed" carry (ONLY) is against the law.

ARS 13-3102.B.3 defines methods of carry that don't violate ARS 13-3102.A.2.

Paraphrasing the law - If you are under 21 you may not carry "concealed" and may only carry using the methods in ARS 13-3102.B.3 which means "open carry" if you are wearing a "weapon."

Nowhere in ARS 13-3102 does it say you need to have a note from an adult and nowhere does it say you can't carry in plublic. I think someone else quoted another law requiring notes from mommy and daddy for the under 18 crowd? Like I said earlier, it's best to read the law.

Fred

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Thanks for the feedback, and my friend appreciates it as well. What I was concerned about was FEDERAL law, not state law. But the Federal statutes I found said that handguns cannot be transferred or owned by anyone under 18. Nothing was said about possession and could be interpreted to include carry depending on who you talk to -- like what I was told for over 18 and under 21. So by the legal convention that nothing specified as illegal is therefore legal and the statutes referenced, I can reasonable conclude that in Arizona someone between 18 and 21 can carry a handgun -- just not concealed.

acmariner99 said:

I have seen repeatedly that someone over 18 and under 21 can carry a handgun openly in Arizona. I was told yesterday that someone in that age bracket cannot have a handgun in their POSSESSION without written authorization from someone over 21 (particularly a parent), let alone carry it in public. This does not apply to me directly, but rather a friend of mine who wants to be able to carry. The federal statutes only say that a dealer cannot sell a handgun to someone under 21 (that I can see anyway). I have seen a lot of stories and examples from individuals here carrying below 21 years old, but I got told from a retired LEO and gun shop owner that someone under 21 cannot have a handgun .. period unless they are under direct supervision of someone who is over 21 and in a place where they could be allowed to have it -- like a range. Could you clarify this for me and provide statutes (federal and state) and/or court cases which back up your statements. Thanks.

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Under 18 needs direct supervision with a handgun. 18-21 OC only. 21-up... Concealed or open... no permit within' the state. You're looking for a law that tells you what you 'can do'. Laws don't do that. Cops really don't know 'the law'... for the most part. There's a few on here that do tho. (AZKOPPER for one) Quit bein' such a doubting Thomas with all these 'court cases 'n 'link' crap. You sound like an Easterner.


OK... Fred gave ya the ARS stuff. Don't concern yourself with what the Feds do... nobody cares.

Thank you for the compliment, Sonora!! I try my best.

Sonora Rebel said:

Under 18 needs direct supervision with a handgun. 18-21 OC only. 21-up... Concealed or open... no permit within' the state. You're looking for a law that tells you what you 'can do'. Laws don't do that. Cops really don't know 'the law'... for the most part. There's a few on here that do tho. (AZKOPPER for one) Quit bein' such a doubting Thomas with all these 'court cases 'n 'link' crap. You sound like an Easterner.


OK... Fred gave ya the ARS stuff. Don't concern yourself with what the Feds do... nobody cares.

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Excuse me, but I am covering my own @$$ and making sure that the information I am being given is proper and accurate. I have been given contradictory information - so I need legal precedent and law NOT anyone's opinion in particular to tell me that my friend can carry. And I do concern myself with what the Feds do -- wouldn't you care about Sec 926A if you were travelling through a restrictive Eastern state? If the Feds say that someone under 21 cannot own a handgun, then I really wouldn't care what the states say. BUT, from what I have read it only says that a firearm cannot be transferred to anyone UNDER 18. And FYI, I have never lived east of the Mississippi and I am NOT from Kali either.

acmariner99 said:

Excuse me, but I am covering my own @$$ and making sure that the information I am being given is proper and accurate. I have been given contradictory information - so I need legal precedent and law NOT anyone's opinion in particular to tell me that my friend can carry. And I do concern myself with what the Feds do -- wouldn't you care about Sec 926A if you were travelling through a restrictive Eastern state? If the Feds say that someone under 21 cannot own a handgun, then I really wouldn't care what the states say. BUT, from what I have read it only says that a firearm cannot be transferred to anyone UNDER 18. And FYI, I have never lived east of the Mississippi and I am NOT from Kali either.

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I'm not sure how the feds got dragged into what's legal in the State of Arizona, but there isn't an AZ statute that prohibits the open carry of firearms by people 18 years and older.

The contradictory information you have received, were the laws referenced Federal or State?
If State, what was their citation for the denial of open carry by persons under the age of 21 but over 18?
I would be interested in seeing that.

I can't speak to the enforcement of Federal statutes in Arizona, perhaps someone here can. I haven't heard of anyone being arrested for one, such as the GFSZ.

As for needing legal precedent, the ARS for concealed carry and weapons misconduct have been posted here, they are not opinion, they are law.
The ARS doesn't deny open carry to persons over the age of 18, if that was the case, it would be in the section that references Weapons Misconduct.

Weapons misconduct: http://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03102.htm
Minors: http://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03111.htm

INAL - YMMV

-MH

March Hare said:

I'm not sure how the feds got dragged into what's legal in the State of Arizona, but there isn't an AZ statute that prohibits the open carry of firearms by people 18 years and older.

The contradictory information you have received, were the laws referenced Federal or State?
If State, what was their citation for the denial of open carry by persons under the age of 21 but over 18?
I would be interested in seeing that.

As for needing legal precedent, the ARS for concealed carry and weapons misconduct have been posted here, they are not opinion, they are law.
The ARS doesn't deny open carry to persons over the age of 18, if that was the case, it would be in the section that references Weapons Misconduct.

INAL - YMMV

-MH

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The laws being referenced were FEDERAL. I was told that NO ONE under 21 years old may have a handgun in their possession unless under supervision of someone 21 or older by FEDERAL statute. Since my friend and I were at the range at the time of this discussion, it didn't matter at the time, but they said it would be illegal for my friend to carry in public. I mentioned the relevant state statutes, but they said it doesn't matter what Arizona or any other state says, the FEDS say no handguns if under 21 .. period. I know what the ARS says, and I make sure to understand those relevant statutes and those of any state I am in. I checked the relevant federal law and http://www.lcav.org/content/minimum_age_purchase_possess.pdf provides a good summary of both Federal and State possession requirements. (USC Title 18 Section 922). Now, those statutes prohibit licensed transfer of a handgun to someone under 21, but not UN-licensed transfer. Unlicensed transfer of a handgun is prohibited to persons UNDER 18. The individuals at the gun store said that it is illegal for someone under 21 to be in possession of a handgun unless under supervision. The Federal law says that that is NOT TRUE. It was the Federal law that concerned me, not Arizona's. But since the Federal Statutes confirmed what I believed initially (that someone under 21 CAN be in possession of a handgun provided the transfer was between the person in question and an unlicensed individual -- therefore allowing state statute to determine eligibility for carry), the argument of state vs federal law is a moot point.

And not to shoot myself in the foot, I did just notice the source of the summary --> the LCAV-- that is what google came up with.

acmariner99 said:

I checked the relevant federal law and http://www.lcav.org/content/minimum_age_purchase_possess.pdf

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You are citing an anti-rights (Legal Community Against Violence) web site as a source?

Hmmm.......

You got some 'splaining to do

Fred

Laws are laws regardless of who is citing them. When I googled for the relevant federal/state laws, that was what came up. And for the record, I wanted to make sure that my friend COULD carry whilst a few people said it was illegal for the person just to have it in their possession. I debunked that with the 'anti-rights' cite, so I guess I can laugh at them, their gun control antics backfired because i can claim with statutory support that my friend can possess a handgun under 21 -- thanks LCAV!

acmariner99 said:

Laws are laws regardless of who is citing them. When I googled for the relevant federal/state laws, that was what came up. And for the record, I wanted to make sure that my friend COULD carry whilst a few people said it was illegal for the person just to have it in their possession. I debunked that with the 'anti-rights' cite, so I guess I can laugh at them, their gun control antics backfired because i can claim with statutory support that my friend can possess a handgun under 21 -- thanks LCAV!

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Good going. Tell the ignorant morons who told you he couldn't in the first place to take a long walk off of a short pier.

mkspllmn said:

Are we sure about the one in the barrel law?

How many rounds are we allowed with an open/consealed carry in AZ?

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By law your only allowed to have one round in the chamber at a time, but you can carry as many as your physically able to.

NavyLCDR said:

Well, that's a pretty dumb law....

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I believe it's a particle physics law

No two objects can occupy the space at the same time

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:banana:

Further clarification.

I was looking into AZ law and was reading the Statutes, specifically "13-3102. Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions" Which states;

A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly:

1. Carrying a deadly weapon except a pocket knife concealed on his person or within his immediate control in or on a means of transportation:

The part I am concerned about is the "..or within his immediate control..". Does that mean I, who will be 19 by the time I move to AZ, can NOT have my pistol in a holster openly displayed on my side since it will be "within my immediate control"?

I just want to be 100% sure before I get out there and start carrying. I don't want to run in to any problems with LE my first week out there..

Also, I just spoke with my father on the phone, who is already living in AZ, and he mentioned something about having to be a resident for at least 6 months before one can carry. I'm thinking that is for a CWP... but I just need more info.

Thanks,

a strong supporter of MY Second Amendment rights.

NavyLCDR said:

First, you need to keep reading the statute, you stopped too soon:


13-3102. Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions
A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly:
1. Carrying a deadly weapon except a pocket knife concealed on his person or within his immediate control in or on a means of transportation:
(a) In the furtherance of a serious offense as defined in section 13-706, a violent crime as defined in section 13-901.03 or any other felony offense; or
(b) When contacted by a law enforcement officer and failing to accurately answer the officer if the officer asks whether the person is carrying a concealed deadly weapon; or
2. Carrying a deadly weapon except a pocket knife concealed on his person or concealed within his immediate control in or on a means of transportation if the person is under twenty-one years of age;

Are you going to carry the gun in order to commit a serious offense? No. Are you going to fail to answer an officer truthfully if he asks you whether you are carrying a gun or not? No. Those are the actions that are illegal when carrying a gun in holster in or on a means of transportation.

HOWEVER, paragraph 2. applies to you: you have to be 21 to carry in or on a means of transportation.

HOWEVER, Read further in the statute:


B. Subsection A, paragraph 2 of this section shall not apply to:
3. A firearm that is carried in:
(a) A manner where any portion of the firearm or holster in which the firearm is carried is visible.
(b) A holster that is wholly or partially visible.
(c) A scabbard or case designed for carrying weapons that is wholly or partially visible.
(d) Luggage.
(e) A case, holster, scabbard, pack or luggage that is carried within a means of transportation or within a storage compartment, map pocket, trunk or glove compartment of a means of transportation.

Handguns in holsters are exempt from the 21 years old age limit.

There is no 6 month residency requirement to open carry. Even non-resident visitors to AZ can open carry.

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So as long as I have my firearm in my holster, I can take it my vehicle?

NavyLCDR said:

Yes. Or any of the other containers that are listed in B.3.(a) through (e)

and public transportation as well.

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Thank you so much. I appreciate the information.

Feds in AZ

One should not worry too much regarding "federal officers" in AZ ! Yes, they're here, but in such small numbers and so overworked that your liklihood of encountering one is quite small, generally !! They're usually aquainted enough w/ AZ gun laws and our gun culture out here that
they would only mess w/ you if they saw you breaking a federal gun law !! Rest easy !!

NavyLCDR said:

Carrying within 1000' of a school without a permit from the state the school is in is a Federal gun law.

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I've been here (AZ) a long time... it's never been an issue. 'Least that I've heard of.


The only fed guys here are Border Patrol, and Park Rangers. The Park Rangers never had any heartburn when people carried in/thru the park territory when the law against it was still in effect. Often as not... there's no way to get from point to point w/o passing thru a Fed Park 'n most of us who have to do that are armed in some fashion or other. Border Patrol doesn't care.

feds & guns in AZ

Firearms are prohibited within 1000' of any primary or secondary school as per title 18 USC (don't have the exact citation) and I suppose if
some federal officer were to see you packing OC, it could be a problem. Of course the federal statutes don't address CC, except that you are
exempt from the GFSZ act if you have a valid CCW issued from any of the 48 states that issue them. Also, if you're concealing your weapon
properly, I doubt if anyone, fed or otherwise, will notice. The ccw requirement applies whether carrying OC or CC as far as the GFSZ act is
applied. AZ recognizes ALL out of state ccw permits, if I'm not mistaken ! I used to live across the street from an elementary school, and I OC'd
frequently. No one, from neighbors to THE RESOURCE OFFICERS PARKED IN THE SCHOOL PARKING LOT, cared much, as nothing ever happened
to me. BTW, if you're new to AZ, we have CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY, no permit rerquired (except as above) ! Enjoy & be safe & responsible !!

Thanks for the clarification, Navy. It may be a stupid law, but that's no excuse for me not to know the citation.

To the OP,

I just joined this forum a couple of days ago, and I can tell that it only took one post to determine that this site is controlled by a bunch of a$$ Holes. All smug, self centered, judgmental, self righteous so called gun supporting citizens. Ya bunch of Nazi's! Wolves in sheep clothing.

If you want accurate interpretations of Arizona gun laws, go to armedpersonaldefense.com. Doug Little is a certified expert in Arizona gun laws, all of them. I sure wouldn't trust any of these morons here, they'll probably give you inaccurate information just to get you in trouble, and then insult you just for the fun of it.

I should have trusted my nose, cause I thought I smelled something when I joined this site.:uhoh:

S&W357mag out!