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Thread: ATF agent murder trial

  1. #1
    Regular Member oldbanger's Avatar
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    ATF agent murder trial

    Special Agent William G. Clark ..was leaving his condo when he encountered Marcus Sukow and his girlfriend...Sukow was naked, intoxicated and shouting threats at his girlfriend...At one point, Sukow went into his condo and returned wearing gym shorts...After Duncan sought refuge in Clark's car, Sukow charged at Clark's open driver door, the flashlight -- a heavy-duty, 18-inch metal one -- raised "like a tomahawk," poised to strike Clark...Clark shot him five times...once in the back...!?

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/25/...tf.agent.case/

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...b8707f04e19edc
    Last edited by oldbanger; 10-25-2010 at 01:17 PM. Reason: update from AP story

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Looks justified with the information given.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    The man was clearly justified.

    Note to self: Don't visit the Virgin Islands... ever.
    Last edited by Jack House; 10-25-2010 at 02:49 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Note to self: Don't visit the Virgin Islands... ever.
    No kidding. Though it seems here that there was some ulterior motivation.

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    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    "It is well recognized that federal law enforcement officers are immune from state criminal liability for actions that are taken within the scope of their employment as federal officers," Sen. Charles Schumer, D-New York
    While I believe from the "facts" presented in the paper, that this officer should not have been charged with anything, I have a strong disagreement with sen. schumer.

    NO, they are not immune to state prosecution. IDIOT Schumer.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

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    The right to defend oneself and others also applies to LEOs. The questions to be answered are: "Did he have reasonable belief that he was in sufficient danger to warrant the use of force?" and, "Was the level of force used appropriate to the threat?"

    I don't have enough information to make this call. I am curious as to why one of the shots was in the back, although, in and of itself, the shot in the back is not damning.

    That he is a LEO does not lessen his right to self defense. It does, based on his training, provide unique insight to the answers to the above two questions.

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    If the facts are correct I hope he is found not guilty.

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    Based on the fact that not too many weeks ago an off-duty cop was killed in Philly by a thrown piece of sidewalk, rock, or concrete, I'd say the agent was justified, just like anyone of us would be.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Hidden benefit!

    Now how can we get that policy change here?

    "Federal authorities were so incensed by the Virgin Island's prosecution of Clark -- and so concerned other federal agents could similarly be prosecuted -- that they removed all ATF agents from the Virgin Islands in 2008, a policy that continues today, the agency said."
    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/25/...tf.agent.case/
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Judge Tosses Murder Case Against ATF Agent in Virgin Islands

    "A U.S. federal agent accused of killing his neighbor walked out of a U.S. Virgin Islands courtroom a free man Thursday after a judge threw out the case on a technicality that caught many by surprise."

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=11996421

    U.S. law enforcement officials, including the FBI, had requested the charges be dropped and warned that the case has had a chilling effect on federal agents in the U.S. territory worried about liability in responding to crimes. A U.S. federal investigation of the shooting found that it was justified.

    Judge Edgar Ross dismissed the case with prejudice, meaning his ruling cannot be appealed. The trial had begun Monday. Defense attorney Mark Schamel said the case was dismissed on a technicality: that proper procedure was not followed in identifying Sukow's body to the medical examiner.

    "Regardless of the basis for the decision, the outcome was the right one," Schamel said. The attorney general of the Virgin Islands owes William Clark and the people of the Virgin Islands an apology."

    If you want you blood to boil read the whole article.
    Last edited by zack991; 10-29-2010 at 11:13 PM.

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=11996421

    If you want you blood to boil read the whole article.
    I have I read it and been following this case. See nothing that would raise my temperature one iota. Sure there is conflicting testimony and hearsay, but see nothing of major purport.

    As a juror, I suspect that I would have had reasonable doubt as to the agent's guilt as charged. The fact that the trial was decided on a technicality, bothers me not. ymmv
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I have I read it and been following this case. See nothing that would raise my temperature one iota. Sure there is conflicting testimony and hearsay, but see nothing of major purport.

    As a juror, I suspect that I would have had reasonable doubt as to the agent's guilt as charged. The fact that the trial was decided on a technicality, bothers me not. ymmv
    What pisses me off is the women is willing to lie on the stand about how she was in no danger and she was just asking for a ride to get a paper from the agent and not the fact that she is seeking aid. I can not stand it when people like her plead and beg for help and when it comes to court she tosses the agent under the buss. I hate liers like her and hope she burns for it.
    Last edited by zack991; 10-30-2010 at 02:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    What pisses me off is the women is willing to lie on the stand about how she was in no danger and she was just asking for a ride to get a paper from the agent and not the fact that she is seeking aid. I can not stand it when people like her plead and beg for help and when it comes to court she tosses the agent under the buss. I hate liers like her and hope she burns for it.
    I don't think anyone lied. She was likely relating events as she remembers them through the prism of her hopes and fears. Some witnesses claim to have seen Sukow hit the agents car with his flashlight. Others claim that Sukow's hands were at his side the whole time. Someone has to be lying! Not really. Again, the testimony is likely the truth to the best of their recollections.

    That is why eyewitness testimony is not as compelling as physical evidence. It is not nearly as reliable. The defense would've no doubt entered into evidence the dent in Clark's car to establish that Sukow did strike the car. A simple analysis of the dents in Duncan's car should establish that they were caused by the flashlight, casting doubt on Duncan's denials and lending credibility to Clark.

    This story does not make my blood boil at all. There was a shooting. It was investigated and brought to trial. Either way the prosecutors went, they'd be seen as being unjust. So, they dropped the matter in the courts, where the case belonged!

    It would have been more accepted if it had been settled by the jury (a likely acquittal, IMO), however the judge had no choice. If the cops/medical examiners/DAs were unable to establish that the body was of the person Clark was accused of killing, the autopsy report of some random unidentified body becomes irrelevant.

    How incompetent must the cops/medical examiners/DAs be to not be able to prove the identity of the body on their hands??? I smell a Law & Order episode, ripped from the headlines.

  14. #14
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    "Federal authorities were so incensed by the Virgin Island's prosecution of Clark -- and so concerned other federal agents could similarly be prosecuted -- that they removed all ATF agents from the Virgin Islands in 2008, a policy that continues today, the agency said."
    Okay, so how do we go about removing all ATF agents from the 50 sovereign states?

  15. #15
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    Okay, so how do we go about removing all ATF agents from the 50 sovereign states?
    Get in line and take a number.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Get in line and take a number.
    Well too bad we cant sue to say that they are unconstitutional as well as the FBI and others.

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