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Thread: When UOC, empty mag in gun or no?

  1. #1
    Regular Member RockerFor2A's Avatar
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    When UOC, empty mag in gun or no?

    Just a question for OCers with semi autos. When carrying do you keep an empty mag in your weapon or have no mag? Which do you prefer?

    The reason I ask is that I instinctively like the idea of having an empty mag in the weapon because a BG can't be sure if it's loaded or not. (Although if he knows I'm not LE and knows the law, he might have a good idea it's empty.)

    The argument against this I imagine is that if you ever had to load your gun in a hurry you'd have to take an extra second to drop the empty mag before inserting a loaded one.

    I was wondering what others' preferences are on this? Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    It really doesn't take all that much more time to drop an empty mag. I would say the cons to walking around without an empty mag in the pistol would be particles getting into the handgun itself possibly causing some harm or damage. clips might start sticking with too much build up.....
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

  3. #3
    kittyhawk63
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    If you are concerned about the BGs enough to OC, then I would practice releasing the firearm's empty magazine while at the same time retrieving the magazine with the ammo. When the empty magazine drops, you should be ready to insert the loaded magazine immediately. Keep practicing until it becomes second nature for you.

    Practice makes imperfection less imperfect
    . (kh63)

    See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCDIfxHcJkw
    Last edited by kittyhawk63; 10-31-2010 at 05:40 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member RockerFor2A's Avatar
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    Thanks for the responses! I also agree it shouldn't be too hard to drop the empty mag quickly. Realistically it shouldn't be much of an issue and I'd rather keep an empty clip in it. I have an XD40 and it seems it would be fairly easy to hit the mag release button while unholstering and let it drop to the ground while readying a loaded clip. And the odds of being in a situation where the timing is that crucial are probably very slim.

  5. #5
    kittyhawk63
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockerFor2A View Post
    ...the odds of being in a situation where the timing is that crucial are probably very slim.
    I wouldn't want to bet on it.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    Either way, with proper training you can draw, load, and fire your weapon in about 2-3 seconds. There are plenty of youtube videos regarding this exact topic.

    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

  7. #7
    Regular Member RockerFor2A's Avatar
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    Yes-- thanks for the advice. I just went through some quick drills to get a feel for it and it's not too bad. I made sure to clear the gun and then used a clip loaded with some those red dummy rounds to practice. It's fairly easy to hit the mag release with my thumb immediately after gun is unholstered and let it drop to the floor while bringing the gun up. I'm pretty sure I was able to go from arms at my side to loaded and racked in 2-3 seconds.

    Now I'm a relative newbie, so please forgive me if I'm wrong on any of this, but from my brief practice it seems clear to me that most important factor is to internalize the idea that *because we are required by law to UNLOADED open carry* "drawing" becomes a TWO-ARMED movement-- the left hand (I'm right handed) goes immediately for the loaded mag *at the same time* the right hand goes for the gun. All because of UNLOADED open carry.

    Only other factor I may adjust is my Serpa CQC holster. I have it currently set so that you must press the lever on the side to release the gun. I at first liked this idea, but notice I might need to work on developing some muscle memory so that pressing the lever is second nature and fluid.

  8. #8
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Empty mag in. When drawing just hit the mag release. It's a real smooth motion with practice.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

  9. #9
    Regular Member leoffensive's Avatar
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    i carry with an empty mag and hammer cocked. of course it got attention from some uneducated security guards which led to an annoying police encounter but ill still always carry with an empty mag cause you got have it look loaded for the whole deterrence(sp?) factor to work.

  10. #10
    kittyhawk63
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    RockerFor2A,
    You will enjoy looking at these videos.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCDIf...ext=1&index=43

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCDIf...ext=1&index=43

    The first one really looks real and not speeded up. Watch his mouth movements. They are very natural. Remember...keep it empty while practicing at home. You can stand over a bed and not have to keep reaching all the way to the floor to pick up your magazine. You must remember to get this programmed into your brain ONLY for the bad guys meaning to do you harm.

    You do not want to reach for your loaded magazine if confronted by LEO...even if you do not make a move for your firearm. If confronted by LEO, let the LEO remove your gun from your holster. Do not do it yourself. You can read here what happens if a LEO makes a mistake: http://www.lvrj.com/news/slaying-of-...-98223884.html

    Personally, I think several Clint Eastwood, gun-happy cops met Erik that day.
    Last edited by kittyhawk63; 10-25-2010 at 08:41 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    +1 for an empty mag in the pistol.

    Additional time from UOC to Loaded - zero.

  12. #12
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    I choose to carry with empty mag well. Striker fired pistol so no cocked hammer look anyway. IMO deterrence is still real and effective. In a nutshell, I choose one less task to have to complete.

    The only way one could tell my pistol is not loaded is to stand behind me and actually see the empty mag well. I'm not convinced a bad guy will go out of their way to get close enough behind me to tell...while remaining calm and without me noticing I'm being surveilled.

  13. #13
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Sons of Liberty's Avatar
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    Empty mag in. Keeps debris out.
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

  14. #14
    Regular Member JJ's Avatar
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    If you want the mag to drop away more quickly, keep it loaded with snap caps (dummy rounds) The added weight and pressure against the slide will make it fall out faster. I only know one person that has been e checked with snap caps in and it was not an issue.


    Edit: On a side note, I have some friends who were not e checked because the officer could see their mag well was empty...... I prefer to have a mag in.
    Last edited by JJ; 10-25-2010 at 10:44 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    My reasons for carrying with empty mag in the well.

    1) It prevents foreign bodys from entering this includes dust, dirt, probing fingers, pointy objects. (kids are drawn to guns, if its open they will try to put something in it.
    2) Prevents the well from catching on to anything, like when sitting down or leaning against something or carrying something.
    3) For gun educated people it means "until proven otherwise, mag is loaded and ready to shoot" makes BG's think twice, not so good for LE, who now want to E check it. But gotta take good with bad. For non gun educated it looks loaded, and ready.
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

  16. #16
    Regular Member RockerFor2A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ View Post
    Edit: On a side note, I have some friends who were not e checked because the officer could see their mag well was empty...... I prefer to have a mag in.
    Yep.... I was wondering if that might be a possible upside.

  17. #17
    Regular Member leoffensive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockerFor2A View Post
    Yep.... I was wondering if that might be a possible upside.
    yea ultimately its your choice.

    but having it appear to be loaded is part of deterrence. kinda goes in part with self defense.

    its stupid enough that its unloaded
    Last edited by leoffensive; 10-26-2010 at 09:19 PM. Reason: added stuff

  18. #18
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ View Post

    Edit: On a side note, I have some friends who were not e checked because the officer could see their mag well was empty...... I prefer to have a mag in.
    This has happened to me in long beach. A cop approached saw no mag and decided not to E-check because of it.

    Try both and see what works.

    I am not into trying to look like my gun is (maybe, possibly, almost, could be, Umm,) loaded. Its NOT. But do you feel like finding out how fast it CAN be loaded? Feeling lucky PUNK?

    works for me LOL

  19. #19
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    I prefer an empty mag well for a simplified loading process.

  20. #20
    Regular Member JJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    I prefer an empty mag well for a simplified loading process.

    Aren't you allowed LOC in your state???

  21. #21
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    Yes, I always carry loaded in Nevada. I live right on the border with California so I visit sometimes and thus am subjected sometimes to stupid California gun laws.

    I live about 2 miles from the California border as the bird flies, and if I wanted to drive to California on the roads it'd be about 3 miles.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 10-30-2010 at 04:40 AM.

  22. #22
    kittyhawk63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coded-Dude View Post
    Either way, with proper training you can draw, load, and fire your weapon in about 2-3 seconds. There are plenty of youtube videos regarding this exact topic.

    In comparison with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCDIfxHcJkw, this young man is much imperfect. He needs more practice...probably as most of us do.

    Practice is what smooths out the rough edges of uncertainty. (kh63)
    Last edited by kittyhawk63; 10-31-2010 at 05:41 PM.

  23. #23
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leoffensive View Post
    yea ultimately its your choice.

    but having it appear to be loaded is part of deterrence. kinda goes in part with self defense.

    its stupid enough that its unloaded
    Yep, it's stupid. I gotta empathize with the California carriers. I don't know about the "part of deterrence" factor, though. I gotta think people are biased to perceive the GUN , not the parts. And every day, the info that the gun laws require the gun to be unloaded diffuses more widely.



    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    I prefer an empty mag well for a simplified loading process.
    Simple is the winner, seems to me. No part to remove. No button to hit.
    Simple wins . . .


    Quote Originally Posted by ryanburbridge View Post
    I am not into trying to look like my gun is (maybe, possibly, almost, could be, Umm,) loaded. Its NOT. But do you feel like finding out how fast it CAN be loaded? Feeling lucky PUNK?

    works for me LOL
    LOL.

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