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Thread: Do not play with guns

  1. #1
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Exclamation Do not play with guns

    http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_n...fant%27s-death


    Just a reminder, and if you are cleaning your gun triple check its empty!

    Marine gets 1 year in infant's death
    Accidentally shot daughter
    Updated: Monday, 25 Oct 2010, 1:39 PM EDT
    Published : Monday, 25 Oct 2010, 12:44 PM EDT

    CHESAPEAKE, Va. (AP) - A Marine security officer who was practicing drawing his handgun and accidentally shot his 9-month-old daughter to death has been sentenced to a year in jail.

    Twenty-six-year-old Colton Jack Luman pleaded guilty in June to involuntary manslaughter in Chesapeake Circuit Court and was sentenced Monday.

    The Virginian-Pilot reports court records show the infant was in a high chair at Luman's home on Naval Support Activity Norfolk, Northwest Annex, when the shooting occurred in February.
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 10-25-2010 at 03:19 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    Not very many details, but a good lesson nonetheless. why anyone would practice drawing a firearm in front of their child is beyond me.....
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

  3. #3
    Regular Member RockerFor2A's Avatar
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    My God! Could you even imagine being that Marine and having to live with that for the rest of your life?

  4. #4
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    Just a reminder, and if you are cleaning your gun triple check its empty!
    I agree, I can't imagine having to live with knowing you killed your kid. His marriage will probably end too.

    On a lighter note, I was up late last night, watched a rerun of The Unit where the daughter of the Master Sergeant (Don't remember his name, the actor is Dennis Haysburt) wants to enlist, & tries to take a gun from their desk.

    At some point daddy takes the girl to the shooting range for a father-daughter talk, and before they go he hands her the gun. She properly locks it open, looks & sticks her finger in the chamber to confirm it's empty, and keeps her finger off the trigger. Good girl!

    As I've become better educated about gun safety, I've started noticing when shows do things right, or make outrageous errors. (An FBI agent's pistol falling out because he falls to the ground tussling with a suspect.)

  5. #5
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coded-Dude View Post
    Not very many details, but a good lesson nonetheless. why anyone would practice drawing a firearm in front of their child is beyond me.....
    I would imagine he was in another room and the round went through the wall... as a guess. I don't have a problem with him practicing in front of his daughter, but I do have a problem that he was doing so in an occupied building with a ROUND IN THE CHAMBER?!

    I practice my draw all the time, I even have homemade rubber bullet rounds with just primers and no powder for indoor draw and fire practice. But to practice with a live round in the chamber is just not thinking too well.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    agreed 100%. if your going to practice draw.....first practice safety!
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

  7. #7
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    A man who worked on the same project as did I in my last job was supposedly cleaning his gun one day last June and it discharged, resulting in his death. All of us know that it is a physical impossibility to clean a loaded gun. Have to wonder how this came about.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  8. #8
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    A man who worked on the same project as did I in my last job was supposedly cleaning his gun one day last June and it discharged, resulting in his death. All of us know that it is a physical impossibility to clean a loaded gun. Have to wonder how this came about.
    Well several manufacturers require that you pull the trigger to take the slide off. I for one check that it is empty first but still am going to point it in a safe direction when I pull the trigger to break it down.

    **** happens and we all make mistakes. This story reminds me of the person that left their infant in a car seat (all day) on a hot summer day and will have to live with that stupidity the rest of their lives. I have been lucky in that the bonehead mistakes I have made in my life haven't resulted in injury to anyone else.
    Last edited by 45acpForMe; 10-25-2010 at 08:12 PM.

  9. #9
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    Well several manufacturers require that you pull the trigger to take the slide off. I for one check that it is empty first but still am going to point it in a safe direction when I pull the trigger to break it down.

    **** happens and we all make mistakes. This story reminds me of the person that left their infant in a car seat (all day) on a hot summer day and will have to live with that stupidity the rest of their lives. I have been lucky in that the bonehead mistakes I have made in my life haven't resulted in injury to anyone else.
    I have zero sympathy for him!
    I practice different draws every day....OUTSIDE at my range and usually with an unloaded gun so I don't shoot myself.

    When I do practice inside, it's with my Airsoft 1911 which is an exact duplicate of my Para.

    We all have accidents from time to time but the idea is to be in a place that your FU won't hurt loved ones.

  10. #10
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    Well several manufacturers require that you pull the trigger to take the slide off. I for one check that it is empty first but still am going to point it in a safe direction when I pull the trigger to break it down.

    **** happens and we all make mistakes. This story reminds me of the person that left their infant in a car seat (all day) on a hot summer day and will have to live with that stupidity the rest of their lives. I have been lucky in that the bonehead mistakes I have made in my life haven't resulted in injury to anyone else.
    I think I should have clarified that by cleaning, I meant the actual act of cleaning the gun; not the preparation. Yes, you're correct with your statements. And I expect that is most likely what occurred to the man with whom I worked. Although, there is speculation that it may not have been totally an accident in his case. I'd like to think that is just speculation as he was a nice person to have known at work.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  11. #11
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I have zero sympathy for him!
    I practice different draws every day....OUTSIDE at my range and usually with an unloaded gun so I don't shoot myself.

    When I do practice inside, it's with my Airsoft 1911 which is an exact duplicate of my Para.

    We all have accidents from time to time but the idea is to be in a place that your FU won't hurt loved ones.
    When I practice draw-and-fire, I do so when no one is home. No TV or radio is on and nothing to disturb me. My attention is geared to what I am about to do and will be doing. Clearing my primary carry Glock 23 is a simple task and there is nothing special or mystical about it. The gun's state is easily determined and simple to unload. Hard to imagine anyone making a mistake with this design. (I know, sh-- happens to the best of us). I do a lot of "trigger discipline" with this gun as well and the same applies with those actions. Common sense, awareness of what you're doing, and the basic firearm safety rules will go a very long way to avoid any bad surprises.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  12. #12
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    If people would just follow that fricken rule of not pointing it at people, things like this wouldn't happen. And yes that includes people you can't see who are in another room.

  13. #13
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    If people would just follow that fricken rule of not pointing it at people, things like this wouldn't happen. And yes that includes people you can't see who are in another room.
    Amen to that. The simplest concept to commit to memory is always know the state of your firearm. This is both for the safety of yourself and others and for that extreme moment when you may really need it. Every time I pick up my carry gun, actually any gun for that matter, I ALWAYS check its state... no exceptions, no lapses, and no cavalier disregard of the basics.

    The other thing to commit to memory is this. When a bullet leaves the barrel, it cannot be recalled and you are responsible for where it winds up. Doesn't matter whether it is a paper target on a range or an individual trying to do very bad things to your body.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 10-26-2010 at 08:27 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  14. #14
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Takes 2-3 seconds....Its a habit that people need to get into. Developing that muscle memory and good gun handling procedure. I beat that into my students and cringe when I hear stories like this one. No need for something like that to happen......sad.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Regular Member Hunting Mama's Avatar
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    Okay, it is one thing to practice in front of your children. They can learn a lot from being taught, if it is done correctly. It is completely another thing to aim at them when you are practicing. That is utterly unacceptable!

    I feel for what this man has to live with, but do believe that he deserves his punishment. When it comes to kids and owning guns our responsibilities are GREAT and must be respected!

  16. #16
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    I do feel for this guy...but, what I feel isn't sympathy. I feel outrage, disgust, and anger. I feel sympathy, obviously, for the child that was killed, and the mother that will have to live the rest of her life knowing she married (and hopefully divorces) a careless bonehead. I tend to prescribe to the theory that he must have shot through a wall...I can't imagine him knowingly aiming at the child, without him being charged with murder.

    I do practice drawing in my home, with a full magazine to accurately approximate the weight ...after checking 3 times to make sure there is no round in the chamber (so obviously the weight is less one round), and only when I am home alone...and I never touch the trigger, even knowing the gun cannot fire.

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    After all is said and done, adherence to 2 rules would have prevented this.

    1) Treat all guns as if they loaded - always!

    2) Know your backstop - make it safe one.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fully_armed_biker View Post
    I tend to prescribe to the theory that he must have shot through a wall...I can't imagine him knowingly aiming at the child, without him being charged with murder.
    This is what I was getting at. I can't imagine anyone, idiots included, that would practice drawing with a loaded (or even unloaded) gun on their child....... It must be, I sincerely hope, that he was drawing on the wall and fired through it striking his kid.

    When I first bought my .45 I was handling it loaded in my townhouse and this exact scenario came into my mind and it frightened me a bit. Being I lived in a townhouse with roommates and neighbors only two layers of sheet rock away, there were few safe directions to point the weapon while chambering before holstering.

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    So it seems that apparently, killing a baby only rates 1 year in jail in Chesapeake. That's the absolute minimum sentence he could have received.

    Note to baby-killers: The City of Chesapeake welcomes you.

    Something tells me they hand out equally light sentences to other "accidental" murderers, such as drunk drivers.

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virginian683 View Post
    So it seems that apparently, killing a baby only rates 1 year in jail in Chesapeake. That's the absolute minimum sentence he could have received.

    Note to baby-killers: The City of Chesapeake welcomes you.

    Something tells me they hand out equally light sentences to other "accidental" murderers, such as drunk drivers.
    He will be serving his own "life sentence" to which there is no parole.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    He will be serving his own "life sentence" to which there is no parole.
    Yeah that's terrible for him; doesn't help the baby much though.

  22. #22
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virginian683 View Post
    Yeah that's terrible for him; doesn't help the baby much though.
    As a father and grandfather, I cannot even begin to imagine the mental anguish this man is experiencing and will experience. Just one microsecond of sheer stupidity and he basically ended three lives; the child's, his, and the child's mother's.

    I included her in there because, as a man, I cannot imagine carrying another human under your heart for nine months, going through the birth process, and then having that child snatched away like this.

    Even with all of that, I hope someone has the compassion to reach out to both of them and try to comfort them. These are, after all two of our fellow humans who are hurting in a way that most of us cannot even imagine. I pray that none of us ever experiences this.

  23. #23
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    As a father and grandfather, I cannot even begin to imagine the mental anguish this man is experiencing and will experience. Just one microsecond of sheer stupidity and he basically ended three lives; the child's, his, and the child's mother's.

    I included her in there because, as a man, I cannot imagine carrying another human under your heart for nine months, going through the birth process, and then having that child snatched away like this.

    Even with all of that, I hope someone has the compassion to reach out to both of them and try to comfort them. These are, after all two of our fellow humans who are hurting in a way that most of us cannot even imagine. I pray that none of us ever experiences this.
    You, sir, are a gentleman.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 10-27-2010 at 07:37 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  24. #24
    Regular Member 230therapy's Avatar
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    This is exactly why I use Snap-Caps. It has everything to do with gun safety and nothing to do with protecting the gun. Snap-Caps force the user to open the action and empty the gun.
    Does anyone here actually believe that the Founders were sitting around in John Adams' tavern UNARMED because they believed a bar should be a gun free zone?

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 230therapy View Post
    This is exactly why I use Snap-Caps. It has everything to do with gun safety and nothing to do with protecting the gun. Snap-Caps force the user to open the action and empty the gun.
    Fail/fool proof way to go.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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