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Thread: Freedom of information request?

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    Regular Member celticredneck's Avatar
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    Freedom of information request?

    A relative of mine applied for a CWP in Virginia. After several weeks a deputy called her regarding her application and a felony arrest as a 16 year old in the state of North Carolina during 1976. The case was Nolle Prossed in 1978, and she has heard nothing more about it since then. However, the deputy has put the burden for learning the final disposition of the case on her. She contacted the relevant courts records clerk, by phone, 2 to 3 weeks ago and was told that they would look up the case and send her a copy of the results for a fee (yet to be disclosed) Several other recent phone calls to this records clerk have yet to be returned. She is concerned about getting this information because the 45 day limit for CWP apps is next week. Are these records covered under the Frreedom of IInformation act and does anyone know how to file such a request in North Carolina?

    I know this isn't directly related to open carry, but is relevant to whether it is even legal for her to own a handgun.

  2. #2
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    First, there is no such thing as a CWP in Va.
    Second, why are you asking this on an Open Carry Board.
    AND
    third, tell your friend to call the Clerk of the court, not the Records Clerk.

    This post smells fishy!

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    Oh, I dunno Peter

    I went through the same exact crap because of some backwater poontang goobers in Pascagoula. I was charged with felony breaking and entering. When we got to court and my attorney provided recipt that showed that my rent was current at the time the land lord decided that I didn't live there any more and locked me out he (the judge) got quite ticked off about the whole thing and publicly chewed out the prosecuting attorney for even bringing the case before the court.

    The judge noll prossed the thing and I thought that was the end of it until I tried to buy a pistol and the police officer started cuffing me. I said whats going on and he replied that there is an outstanding felony warrent for me. Thank God the clerk of the court told him to just wait a minute and she called the ditzy broads in Pascagoula and they told her that they didn't have an outstanding warrant for me and that the case had been noll prossed. They said that they forgot to close out the case in the books.

    Its STILL like that down there. They want me to drive to MS to sign a sheet of paper for them so that they will close the record on it and take the outstanding status off the list. Thankfully Donna Tate notated my records here in VA so I don't get cuffed and stuffed again.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6L6GC View Post
    I went through the same exact crap because of some backwater poontang goobers in Pascagoula. I was charged with felony breaking and entering. When we got to court and my attorney provided recipt that showed that my rent was current at the time the land lord decided that I didn't live there any more and locked me out he (the judge) got quite ticked off about the whole thing and publicly chewed out the prosecuting attorney for even bringing the case before the court.

    The judge noll prossed the thing and I thought that was the end of it until I tried to buy a pistol and the police officer started cuffing me. I said whats going on and he replied that there is an outstanding felony warrent for me. Thank God the clerk of the court told him to just wait a minute and she called the ditzy broads in Pascagoula and they told her that they didn't have an outstanding warrant for me and that the case had been noll prossed. They said that they forgot to close out the case in the books.

    Its STILL like that down there. They want me to drive to MS to sign a sheet of paper for them so that they will close the record on it and take the outstanding status off the list. Thankfully Donna Tate notated my records here in VA so I don't get cuffed and stuffed again.
    Maybe so...I just hate these CHP questions.

    To the OP....NO it is not FOIAble because he/she was a juvenile. Those records are not open to the public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by celticredneck View Post
    A relative of mine applied for a CWP in Virginia. After several weeks a deputy called her regarding her application and a felony arrest as a 16 year old in the state of North Carolina during 1976. The case was Nolle Prossed in 1978, and she has heard nothing more about it since then. However, the deputy has put the burden for learning the final disposition of the case on her. She contacted the relevant courts records clerk, by phone, 2 to 3 weeks ago and was told that they would look up the case and send her a copy of the results for a fee (yet to be disclosed) Several other recent phone calls to this records clerk have yet to be returned. She is concerned about getting this information because the 45 day limit for CWP apps is next week. Are these records covered under the Frreedom of IInformation act and does anyone know how to file such a request in North Carolina?

    I know this isn't directly related to open carry, but is relevant to whether it is even legal for her to own a handgun.
    Wait for action on the application - denial or approval. The judge has 45 days to make the decision; the deputy has nothing to say about it.

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    Regular Member celticredneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    First, there is no such thing as a CWP in Va.
    Second, why are you asking this on an Open Carry Board.
    AND
    third, tell your friend to call the Clerk of the court, not the Records Clerk.

    This post smells fishy!

    It's not fishy, Peter, and it's not a friend, it's a relative. Secondly, if you read my entire post, I acknowledged that it is not strictly OC related, but it does effect her open carry status because if she still has a felony charge on the books somewhere, not only open carry is affected, but her entire second amendment rights to own a firearm. I did get he CWP wrong, as I know it is a CHP in Virginia. Thirdly, others have asked for for advice in similar situations in the past without being accused of making false posts. Lastly, she started with the Clerk of the court and was referred to the records clerk because records that are over 30 years old are not computerized and must be found in the old books.

  7. #7
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Fully admitting I know almost nothing about this case, it sure sounds to me like someone is trying to get your friend to do their job for them.

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticredneck View Post
    It's not fishy, Peter, and it's not a friend, it's a relative. Secondly, if you read my entire post, I acknowledged that it is not strictly OC related, but it does effect her open carry status because if she still has a felony charge on the books somewhere, not only open carry is affected, but her entire second amendment rights to own a firearm. I did get he CWP wrong, as I know it is a CHP in Virginia. Thirdly, others have asked for for advice in similar situations in the past without being accused of making false posts. Lastly, she started with the Clerk of the court and was referred to the records clerk because records that are over 30 years old are not computerized and must be found in the old books.
    I didn't mean to sound like it was a false post, I meant fishy as in something isn't right. Deputies don't usually call to have people prove there isn't a felony warrant outstanding. They just note it and send it to the Judge to decline.

    Yeah, others post CHP questions and I usually say something about it. It isn't my board though and others here don't seem to mind, including the owners.

    30 year old system or not, the Clerk is responsible and if his Deputy Clerks don't do their job, it's time to hold him/her accountable.

    Mike gave the best advice. Let the Judge order a copy of the warrant and disposal.

  9. #9
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Yeah, others post CHP questions and I usually say something about it. It isn't my board though and others here don't seem to mind, including the owners.
    Think of Concealed Carry as the first baby steps toward Open Carry. Who would have started out Open Carrying right out of the box?



    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Think of Concealed Carry as the first baby steps toward Open Carry. Who would have started out Open Carrying right out of the box?



    TFred
    Me. I open carried exclusively for a year and a half in Arizona after arriving in 2005 having never carried before in Ohio, although I did have firearms for home defense. Maybe you were being sarcastic.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Think of Concealed Carry as the first baby steps toward Open Carry. Who would have started out Open Carrying right out of the box?



    TFred
    Everybody under 21 that wishes to carry AND those that see permits as a violation of our fundamental right.

    I will concede that the process brings many to our door, but by a winding road.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Think of Concealed Carry as the first baby steps toward Open Carry. Who would have started out Open Carrying right out of the box?



    TFred
    I open carried for 20 years because you couldn't get a permit unless you played poker with the Judge and let him win.
    The baby steps statement sounds like the defense for Perks 4 Permits. That exact phrase is used every time a bill comes up that would create an exclusive branch of gun owners.

    A CHP is just that. A permit that grants one the PRIVILEGE of hiding your gun as opposed to a right to carry it
    .
    There's nothing wrong with concealing if you feel the need or even as a game many play as they grow up.

    There is a lot wrong with it when it sets CHiPpers on a pedistal above the rest of the gun community.

    This is going to be a BIG issue if it comes up in the General Assembly again this year and there won't be any question that the entire pro gun community does NOT support it.
    Last edited by peter nap; 10-26-2010 at 12:05 PM.

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    First, there is no such thing as a CWP in Va.
    Second, why are you asking this on an Open Carry Board.
    AND
    third, tell your friend to call the Clerk of the court, not the Records Clerk.

    This post smells fishy!
    Do you have an approved topic list that one might refer to in order to avoid becoming the recipient of an internet forum slap down? I see first hand how shame and humiliation can be an effective tool for gaining compliance towards personal preferences where topics are concerned. Lord knows, it has worked well among adolescent females on schoolyards for generations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Think of Concealed Carry as the first baby steps toward Open Carry. Who would have started out Open Carrying right out of the box?



    TFred
    Me.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Glad many felt good enough to start out with OC. All I can say for sure is that I know that there does exist a segment of the population who will only reach OC after gaining comfort with CC first.

    I don't think this makes them evil or second class, even here on a OC board. I think we're better than that.

    JMHO.

    TFred

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticredneck View Post
    A relative of mine applied for a CWP in Virginia. After several weeks a deputy called her regarding her application and a felony arrest as a 16 year old in the state of North Carolina during 1976. The case was Nolle Prossed in 1978, and she has heard nothing more about it since then. However, the deputy has put the burden for learning the final disposition of the case on her. She contacted the relevant courts records clerk, by phone, 2 to 3 weeks ago and was told that they would look up the case and send her a copy of the results for a fee (yet to be disclosed) Several other recent phone calls to this records clerk have yet to be returned. She is concerned about getting this information because the 45 day limit for CWP apps is next week. Are these records covered under the Frreedom of IInformation act and does anyone know how to file such a request in North Carolina?

    I know this isn't directly related to open carry, but is relevant to whether it is even legal for her to own a handgun.
    I follow topics like this one with great interest. There are "bumps in the road" for some folks where firearms, rights, law enforcement and law inter-tangle. I find it interesting how people get things un-tangled, and I add that information to my bag of references. Please keep the forum posted of the process and outcome. There may be just one step in the process that may help another un-muddy the water for themselves if they are caught in a similar situation. Sorry I have no answers for the OP, however, I do not want to see any potential information blocked because somebody didn't approve of the way the questions were presented.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    Do you have an approved topic list that one might refer to in order to avoid becoming the recipient of an internet forum slap down? I see first hand how shame and humiliation can be an effective tool for gaining compliance towards personal preferences where topics are concerned. Lord knows, it has worked well among adolescent females on schoolyards for generations.
    Good place to start is http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

    No need to be defensive - there was no slap down.

    Peter clarified earlier, for those that might have thought it necessary. Most here on the Va. sub-forum understand him quite well and do not take offense............very often.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    I for one did not know about open carry until after I had gotten my CHP. Not many open carry here on the Eastern Shore. I learned about it after finding this site. Personally I believe you should not need a permit to carry period (constitutional carry). However until that is passed in VA I'll keep the option to conceal available to me.
    .

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Glad many felt good enough to start out with OC. All I can say for sure is that I know that there does exist a segment of the population who will only reach OC after gaining comfort with CC first.

    I don't think this makes them evil or second class, even here on a OC board. I think we're better than that.

    JMHO.

    TFred
    No, it doesn't TFred and you know that isn't what I said.

    My concern is using CHP's to push legislation through because it's easier or allowing CHP's in when OC'ers are refused.

    I recall getting an Alert a week or so ago including an invitation from one of the Republican Committees, inviting VCDL and anyone legally carrying with a CHP, to attend.
    I didn't see VCDL declining the invitation either, although I did.

    Discussing CHP's here is like asking for the best muzzleloader loads on a traditional archery board.
    There are lots of sites that will be more than happy to answer all CHP questions.

  20. #20
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    No, it doesn't TFred and you know that isn't what I said.

    My concern is using CHP's to push legislation through because it's easier or allowing CHP's in when OC'ers are refused.

    I recall getting an Alert a week or so ago including an invitation from one of the Republican Committees, inviting VCDL and anyone legally carrying with a CHP, to attend.
    I didn't see VCDL declining the invitation either, although I did.

    Discussing CHP's here is like asking for the best muzzleloader loads on a traditional archery board.
    There are lots of sites that will be more than happy to answer all CHP questions.
    You didn't say that phrase (second class citizen) but your post was not exactly a welcome mat either.

    I know (as do we all) that P4P is your hot topic button, but I don't think that was at issue here at all.

    The point I'm trying to make is that for many people, especially those new to carrying guns, the distinction between OC and CC is fine at best, and for many I would suggest non-existent, at least until they have a chance to learn more.

    I also believe you hurt your own cause by referring concealed carry questions to other more concealed carry oriented boards, because we all know that they are likely to hear only pro-cc type rhetoric there, as opposed to what is usually a fairly balanced dialog here.

    Again, JMHO.

    TFred

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    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Think of Concealed Carry as the first baby steps toward Open Carry. Who would have started out Open Carrying right out of the box?
    I did, and still do.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    You didn't say that phrase (second class citizen) but your post was not exactly a welcome mat either.

    I know (as do we all) that P4P is your hot topic button, but I don't think that was at issue here at all.

    The point I'm trying to make is that for many people, especially those new to carrying guns, the distinction between OC and CC is fine at best, and for many I would suggest non-existent, at least until they have a chance to learn more.

    I also believe you hurt your own cause by referring concealed carry questions to other more concealed carry oriented boards, because we all know that they are likely to hear only pro-cc type rhetoric there, as opposed to what is usually a fairly balanced dialog here.

    Again, JMHO.

    TFred
    Your opinion is always welcome and highly regarded TFred.
    I really didn't hurt my case I don't think. Besides, it isn't my case. I just happen to be one of those that still talks about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf_shadow View Post
    I for one did not know about open carry until after I had gotten my CHP. Not many open carry here on the Eastern Shore. I learned about it after finding this site. Personally I believe you should not need a permit to carry period (constitutional carry). However until that is passed in VA I'll keep the option to conceal available to me.
    .
    This describes me and about five people I know. Sometimes I cover it up, sometimes I let 'er hang out there. Its mine, and I'll do with it as I please and the law allows.

    I don't feel I owe an explanation or an apology. I didn't sign up here to limit my options.

  24. #24
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Your opinion is always welcome and highly regarded TFred.
    I really didn't hurt my case I don't think. Besides, it isn't my case. I just happen to be one of those that still talks about it.
    Thanks.

    Cause, not case... I think some of those CC forums really take a dim view of OC, so I don't think it helps the OC cause to send someone to read over there. They might just get themselves 'doctrinated or something...

    TFred

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Thanks.

    Cause, not case... I think some of those CC forums really take a dim view of OC, so I don't think it helps the OC cause to send someone to read over there. They might just get themselves 'doctrinated or something...

    TFred
    I don't have a cause TFred. I've been on both sides of that fence. I carried long before shall issue, had a permit until I got tired of licensing myself and let it expire. Never looked back.

    I am simply a long time gun owner and activist that feels like many others. CHP is fine as long as it doesn't erode the basic right to carry.
    This site is full of CHPpers that also believe in the basic right. You can't ask for more than that.

    OTOH, you'd be amazed in the amount of diverse opinions from other gun owners in the state. I've talked to hundreds this year and some are downright scary. One had a fit last year because he didn't think anyone should carry in National Parks. He was a CHP BTW.

    VDOF is a good example. The number of CHP people that have been active in that fight is disappointing.

    There is a very disturbing dark side to the argument though. I don't want to discuss that on an open forum so PM me if you haven't figured it out already.

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