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Thread: MSP Legal Update is Up!

  1. #1
    Regular Member Outdoorsman's Avatar
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    MSP Legal Update is Up!

    The new update is on the MSP website. http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7...6120--,00.html

  2. #2
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    BEAUTIFUL!!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    where? did they take it back down. the newest one on that link is 85.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricianLU58 View Post
    where? did they take it back down. the newest one on that link is 85.
    Maybe refresh your browser? I see 86 out there!

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...s_185809_7.pdf

  5. #5
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    that worked. printing now! thank you to all of you who helped make this happen. this will clarify so many details!

    it is getting better every day.

    we need to remember that there are still police out there who will look to harass open carriers, regardless of this update. a policeman tried to intimidate NHCGRPR45 only yesterday.

  6. #6
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    Edit: I had read it too quickly and thought that they failed to show how out of state people with non resident licenses can OC here, but thank you Bronson for showing me I was incorrect. Hats off to MSP and autosurgeon.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricianLU58 View Post
    We need to remember that there are still police out there who will look to harass open carriers, regardless of this update. a policeman tried to intimidate NHCGRPR45 only yesterday.
    That cop was as described acting like a *******, but it sounded like he did everything by the rules or close to it, and pretty much in accordance with the Bill of Rights. I don't support or condone the officers attitude, and having OC'd past thousands of kids getting out of and going to school in Arizona with plenty of cops watching, I believe that this form of interaction is completely needless, but I can't specifically demonize that particular cop. Much more serious issues still arise fairly regularly.
    Last edited by Michigander; 10-27-2010 at 10:40 AM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  7. #7
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    Overall looks good. This is something that should help clear up common misconceptions by police.

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    she forgot to put whatever it was that she was going to put in about casinos or casino parking lots.

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    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Yes thank you all! carry on!

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    Bookmarked and printed

  11. #11
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Covering Preemption in another issue would be nice.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  12. #12
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    How exciting! This update is extraordinarily valuable!

    I am happy it was posted so soon

    Can someone do me a favor and post a link to the actual update. I am unable to open the link from the msp main update page on my iPhone
    Last edited by lapeer20m; 10-26-2010 at 02:22 PM.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Regular Member oldbanger's Avatar
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    Outstanding

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    Very nice, I am a little concerned about this statement:

    There is no way to “open carry” a pistol in a vehicle. An individual, without a CPL or otherwise exempted (e.g., a police officer), who transports a pistol in a vehicle to an area where he or she intends to “open carry” may be in violation of MCL 750.227.

    we know we can transport a weapon, MCL 750.231A guides us on transportation of pistols in a vehicle for a "Lawful purpose" and it included 8 examples.

    But the update seems to indicate that someone who does not have a cpl and is transporting a weapon to an open carry event, even though they have it unloaded and properly stowed in the truck or out of direct access to occupants of the vehicle, that they may be in violation of MCL 720.227, which in parts says you can not carry a weapon without a cpl "concealed or otherwise" in a vehicle.

    Seems that the update may be giving an hint to LEO's that if someone is heading to "A Public Shoot Facility" they would be legal, but if everything was equal and they were heading to a "open carry" event, they could be in violation of MCL 720.227. We know that MCL 750.231a states examples of what lawful purposes included and by the word "include" leads one to believe that this is not the full list of LAWFUL exceptions to allow one to transport a pistol. But I also think the wording of the update suggests that if a NON CPL holder who may be stopped with a weapon in his vehicle admits to going to a "open carry" event even with the pistol properly stowed in his vehicle, he may just find himself with a weapons violation.

    IMO of course, only time will tell
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    And that brings us back to... DON"T TALK TO THE POLICE! And DON'T Consent to any searches.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  17. #17
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onnie View Post
    Very nice, I am a little concerned about this statement:

    There is no way to “open carry” a pistol in a vehicle. An individual, without a CPL or otherwise exempted (e.g., a police officer), who transports a pistol in a vehicle to an area where he or she intends to “open carry” may be in violation of MCL 750.227.

    we know we can transport a weapon, MCL 750.231A guides us on transportation of pistols in a vehicle for a "Lawful purpose" and it included 8 examples.

    But the update seems to indicate that someone who does not have a cpl and is transporting a weapon to an open carry event, even though they have it unloaded and properly stowed in the truck or out of direct access to occupants of the vehicle, that they may be in violation of MCL 720.227, which in parts says you can not carry a weapon without a cpl "concealed or otherwise" in a vehicle.

    Seems that the update may be giving an hint to LEO's that if someone is heading to "A Public Shoot Facility" they would be legal, but if everything was equal and they were heading to a "open carry" event, they could be in violation of MCL 720.227. We know that MCL 750.231a states examples of what lawful purposes included and by the word "include" leads one to believe that this is not the full list of LAWFUL exceptions to allow one to transport a pistol. But I also think the wording of the update suggests that if a NON CPL holder who may be stopped with a weapon in his vehicle admits to going to a "open carry" event even with the pistol properly stowed in his vehicle, he may just find himself with a weapons violation.

    IMO of course, only time will tell

    I made suggestions about these items (see #5 & #6 below):

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1383018

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onnie View Post
    Very nice, I am a little concerned about this statement:

    There is no way to “open carry” a pistol in a vehicle. An individual, without a CPL or otherwise exempted (e.g., a police officer), who transports a pistol in a vehicle to an area where he or she intends to “open carry” may be in violation of MCL 750.227.

    we know we can transport a weapon, MCL 750.231A guides us on transportation of pistols in a vehicle for a "Lawful purpose" and it included 8 examples.

    But the update seems to indicate that someone who does not have a cpl and is transporting a weapon to an open carry event, even though they have it unloaded and properly stowed in the truck or out of direct access to occupants of the vehicle, that they may be in violation of MCL 720.227, which in parts says you can not carry a weapon without a cpl "concealed or otherwise" in a vehicle.

    Seems that the update may be giving an hint to LEO's that if someone is heading to "A Public Shoot Facility" they would be legal, but if everything was equal and they were heading to a "open carry" event, they could be in violation of MCL 720.227. We know that MCL 750.231a states examples of what lawful purposes included and by the word "include" leads one to believe that this is not the full list of LAWFUL exceptions to allow one to transport a pistol. But I also think the wording of the update suggests that if a NON CPL holder who may be stopped with a weapon in his vehicle admits to going to a "open carry" event even with the pistol properly stowed in his vehicle, he may just find himself with a weapons violation.

    IMO of course, only time will tell
    I brought that up before also but they chose not the clarify this in the final version.

  19. #19
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    Yeah, I am concerned with this as well. This could be a very expensive and drawn out case law thing.

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    A suggestion: make multiple copies. One for each vehicle. And one for a friend.springerdave.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by springerdave View Post
    A suggestion: make multiple copies. One for each vehicle. And one for a friend.springerdave.
    Good idea.

    I will have one in my back pocket while I OC when Voting next week.

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    Well this is a very good thing for the MSP to address, however what
    everybody needs to keep in mind is it has... ZERO... legal value.
    It's a fine training aid for the MSP, but other departments can/will choose
    to ignore it if they wish.
    You can bet most judges will look at it and yawn..... and they are the ones
    who really count.
    Dave

  23. #23
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Man....

    I should have read that long ago. That would have cleared up ALOT of non-resident questions I had. THANKS!!!!

  24. #24
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    Beautiful! So how does the document print out...... compared to a trifold? Is it too cumbersome?
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine

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    three pages if you only print on one side. obviously one and a half if you print on two sides.

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