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Thread: The AA-12: World's Best Excuse for A Class II License

  1. #1

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    The AA-12: World's Best Excuse for A Class II License

    http://gizmodo.com/324453/recoilless...-lube-required

    Today is my birthday, and I WANT ONE!

  2. #2
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I've never fired one, but I've seen them fired. Really kind of big and clunky, and when it comes down to it, not really useful in fully automatic. 300 RPM is also not much faster than you can fire a semi automatic. Some actions even allow semi auto faster than this.

    For the same amount of firepower with a gun you can get now over the counter, I suggest a Saiga 12 converted to conform with the dumb ass sporting purpose or US made ban I believe it was Bush sr signed.

    With the overall shape and action of a regular AK, they are just about the nicest defense shotgun available. If you use 20 or 30 round drums, and put a high efficiency muzzle brake or a shortened gas system and a suppressor on a Saiga, you will have a lightly recoiling weapon of among the highest devastation of firepower available in a shoulder fired small arm. About on par with LMG devastation out to 100 yards or so when using buckshot.
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    Yep, the Saiga 12 is going to be my next purchase. Just plain awesome!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gESLOmz-4sc

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    Regular Member Michigun's Avatar
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    yep, i would take a tromix over the AA12 any day

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Neat, but it's not the most powerful firearm in the world.

    This is.

    Carrying it around is a..., though.

    The Saiga 12 has massive recoil. The 200+ engineering refinements done to the AA12 since the 70s have turned it into a nearly recoilless, highly controllable weapon.
    Last edited by since9; 10-27-2010 at 02:55 AM.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    The AA-12 has been highly hyped by Mr Baber and company ever since about 1987, but it seems that no one who understands combat and the role of shotguns therein is much impressed.

    There are a few drawbacks to it, which one should be aware of
    1) It weighs between 13 and 15lbs depending on configuration. That's a lot to lug around, no matter if it's an 8-hr shift or a 72-hour patrol.
    2) It fires from an open bolt. It fires from an open bolt that weighs Three and a Half pounds. Machineguns fire from an open bolt because the high pressure of ammunition fired causes very high temperatures in the chamber which must be eliminated. Shotguns operate at about 15,000 instead of 50,000. That's a huge difference in terms of heat transfer. The open bolt slamming back and forth doesn't do much to improve accuracy of repeat shots either.
    3) Even though the AA-12 uses the 'constant recoil system' that's used by the Ultimax 100, AN-94 and USAS-12 it doesn't eliminate recoil. But it Does diminish felt recoil because the force is spread out over a much longer time.
    4) Ammunition. Shotguns are fine out to about 45-60 yards with buckshot, out to 100 with slugs and maybe out to 175 with the semi-mythical Frag-12 round. The drawback to all that is that a box magazine fed shotgun can't switch from one to the other anywhere as easily as a tube fed shotgun.
    5) Ammunition bulk. Take a length of 2x4 about 10 inches long and strap it to your chest. Now do the same with a couple more and see how much mobility you have. A 10-round stick magazine isn't something that just disappears. That means an AA-12 gunner is limited to about 50-round before needing resupply. Not likely to happen in a combat environment. Think it's any better with drums? They're 3.5 inches thick and about 7 inches in diameter. A gunner might get away with 3 drums, but he's not going to be crawling around in a Humvee much with that.

    Do I know much about AA-12's? Not specifically; but I do own a USAS-12 which has the same operating system, uses the same feeding device, weighs about the same and has the same bulk. I bought it based on a singular article in a magazine and haven't regretted it for a day.
    That said ......
    I've played with it, I've carried it in the woods a time or three and done a few competitions with it. It's NOT something I'd choose to carry every day when lighter shotguns can do the same thing and full-auto capability isn't all that it's cracked up to be in a shotgun.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 10-28-2010 at 11:52 PM.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    "never needs to be cleaned or lubed"

    Now where have I seen that before? Didn't they say the same thing about the M16 when it was first fielded and didn't that get a lot of young men unnecessarily dead?

    My choice of shotguns would be that perennial favorite, the pump gun. For home defense, I would want as short a legal barrel as I could get and I would most likely load with 00 buck.

    There is also a lot to be said for the deterrent factor of the noise that slide makes as it racks a round into the chamber. Been known to cause bladder and bowel evacuations in folk who are on the wrong end of it.

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    It would be a fun toy to mess around with but thats about all. Too big and bulky like others have said. Still would be fun tho

    Also as far as 12 ga slugs go, 100 yards is a thing of the past, Hornady sst's guarantee accuracy and killing power out to 200 and thats with a 2 3/4 shell, wtb 3.5 mag.

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    I can't own one anyone...

    Washington state has a ban on all automatic weapons, regardless of the tax stamp.

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    Campaign Veteran GlockMeisterG21's Avatar
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    I doubt you could get one anyway. Anything post-'86 is non-transferable to a normal person. You would need a FFL and SOT to get a post-'86 sample gun and even then you still need a letter from a local LE agency to obtain one.
    “The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.” — Col. Jeff Cooper, GUNS & AMMO, January 2002

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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockMeisterG21 View Post
    I doubt you could get one anyway. Anything post-'86 is non-transferable to a normal person. You would need a FFL and SOT to get a post-'86 sample gun and even then you still need a letter from a local LE agency to obtain one.
    So basically, once I get into the police department, I'll be able to own one, considering the law exempts Law Enforcement.

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    As a method of legally obtaining such weapons I've come up with an idea.

    1. find an area of like minded land owners or get together with such landowners and buy property in an unincorporated part of a county.

    2. form a municipality.

    3. have everyone enlist as a part time LEO of some sort as an unpaid position.

    4. have the municipality purchase the arms and issue them as service arms for daily use to LEOs (residents).

    While difficult to do I think this would pass legal muster and be possible.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    As a method of legally obtaining such weapons I've come up with an idea.

    1. find an area of like minded land owners or get together with such landowners and buy property in an unincorporated part of a county.

    2. form a municipality.

    3. have everyone enlist as a part time LEO of some sort as an unpaid position.

    4. have the municipality purchase the arms and issue them as service arms for daily use to LEOs (residents).

    While difficult to do I think this would pass legal muster and be possible.
    That's frackin brilliant. Sign me up.
    This site has been hijacked by leftists who attack opposition to further their own ends. Those who have never served this country and attack those who do are no longer worthy of my time or attention.

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    LOL Nice

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    Is there a semi auto version?
    This site has been hijacked by leftists who attack opposition to further their own ends. Those who have never served this country and attack those who do are no longer worthy of my time or attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NRAMARINE View Post
    That's frackin brilliant. Sign me up.
    I'll be trying for this in south MS.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    I'll be trying for this in south MS.
    Count me in. Dibs on dog catcher.
    This site has been hijacked by leftists who attack opposition to further their own ends. Those who have never served this country and attack those who do are no longer worthy of my time or attention.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran GlockMeisterG21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    So basically, once I get into the police department, I'll be able to own one, considering the law exempts Law Enforcement.
    It exempts agencies not individuals. A co-worker of mine's brother works for the County Sheriffs Department and he got his FA Uzi, MAC 10, and M4 carbine the same way we all have to.
    “The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.” — Col. Jeff Cooper, GUNS & AMMO, January 2002

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran GlockMeisterG21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRAMARINE View Post
    Is there a semi auto version?
    Not that I have heard of. Closest thing I can think of to it would be a USAS-12 or maybe a Saiga 12 conversion. The latter can be had without the Tax Stamp.
    Last edited by GlockMeisterG21; 11-03-2010 at 10:14 PM.
    “The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.” — Col. Jeff Cooper, GUNS & AMMO, January 2002

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockMeisterG21 View Post
    It exempts agencies not individuals. A co-worker of mine's brother works for the County Sheriffs Department and he got his FA Uzi, MAC 10, and M4 carbine the same way we all have to.
    Here in Washington, it applies to any police officer while on duty, or en route to being on duty. I was also mistaken when I said Washington bans them regardless. They have an exception "for those in compliance with federal law" as long as it was acquired before 1994, when the RCW took effect.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.190
    Last edited by Aaron1124; 11-04-2010 at 02:37 AM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRAMARINE View Post
    That's frackin brilliant. Sign me up.
    Me too.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    The Saiga 12 has massive recoil.
    You could argue that in terms of a side by side comparison to the AA12 or the USAS12. But for just about any other 12 gauge comparison, it isn't a fair or realistic viewpoint. Even with full power loads and no muzzle brake, they recoil like kittens compared to pumps, and still less than most semi autos I've fired. If you put a brake on them, even high brass loads feel insignificant.
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