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Thread: All the cop anti's together

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    All the cop anti's together

    Tax dollars at work restricting rights.

    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...105694743.html
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    Representatives of the founding organizations were on hand to speak to the devastating impact of firearms, which kill and injure 100,000 Americans each year.
    I wonder if those are all civilian caused injuries/murders.
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    The Wisconsin Police Chiefs Association has worked closely with WAVE to defeat right to carry in Wisconsin. Here is the current WPCA board of members:

    http://www.wichiefs.org/committee/co...of%20Directors

    Pro or anti? And where does your local chief stand?
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    One of the few things I retained from a higher education was in regards to statistics. Actually, it was two things. One, statistics don't lie. Two, statisticians do.

    "In 2008, 34 officers were killed in the line of duty with firearms. So far this year, we've lost 43 officers to firearms," said Chief Katherine Perez, president of the National Association of Women Law Enforcement Executives. "The trend is worsening, and we need to take immediate action."

    Fatality #1: Officer Tommy Bishop succumbed to complications of a gunshot wound sustained 16 years earlier while responding to a domestic disturbance.

    Fatality #6 of 2010: Sergeant Noel Cordero-Guzmán was shot and killed with his own weapon after intervening in a disturbance while off duty.

    He was at a local fast food restaurant with friends when he observed a group of people creating a disturbance. Sergeant Cordero-Guzmán had a previous encounter with one of the men causing the disturbance.

    Fatality #8: Sergeant Ira Essoe succumbed to complications of gunshot wounds sustained on November 6, 1980.

    Fatality #10: Officer Bob Heinle succumbed to complications from a gunshot wound suffered 11 years earlier, on October 21, 1998.

    Fatality #12 : Officer Chris Upton was shot and killed by a hunter who mistook him for game at the Ocmulgee Bluff Equestrian Recreation Area in Jasper County, Georgia.

    He was on patrol at 11:00 pm when he was struck by a shot fired by the hunter. The shooter was in a two-person hunting party hunting coyotes with a high-powered rifle equipped with night vision. After realizing they had shot an officer, the hunters called 911 and reported the incident.

    Fatality #23: Officer Thomas Wortham was shot and killed after identifying himself as a police officer when four subjects attempted to rob him while he was off duty at 11:25 pm.

    Officer Wortham was visiting his parents' home to show them pictures from the previous week's Police Week activities that he attended in Washington. As he was leaving, four men approached and attempted to rob him of his motorcycle.

    Fatality #26: Officer Jimmy Johnson succumbed to a gunshot wound sustained almost 30 years earlier as he and two other officers questioned an armed man, November 11, 1980.

    Fatality #28: Trooper Wesley Brown was shot and killed at approximately 12:40 am while working an off duty security detail at a bar in Forestville, Maryland.
    Earlier in the evening Trooper Brown had escorted a patron out of the bar who had refused to pay a bill. Trooper Brown was standing in the parking lot talking on his cell phone when the man returned and fatally shot him.

    Fatality #33: Officer Thor Soderberg was shot and killed in an apparent robbery attempt at about 3:45 pm near 61st Street and Racine Avenue.

    Officer Soderberg was returning to his vehicle at the end of his shift when he struggled with a male subject who approached from behind and was able to gain control of his service weapon.

    Fatality #34: Officer Michael Bailey was shot and killed while in front of his South Side home at approximately 6:20 am.

    Officer Bailey had just returned home from his shift on a mayoral protection detail, when as many as three male subjects approached and attempted to rob him of his vehicle.

    Fatality #37: Police Officer Carlos Ledesma was shot and killed while conducting an undercover 'reverse' bust operation in Phoenix.

    Officer Ledesma was working an undercover operation with two other officers. They were attempting to sell 500 pounds of marijuana. They had just arrived to complete the deal when the suspects came out firing at them.

    Not to trivialize any loss of life, but to bring proper perspective to the statistics given, eleven of those officers lost were shot years prior to 2010, shot off duty, or under situations where violence was expected. Darwin does not exempt blue uniforms.

  5. #5
    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    One of the few things I retained from a higher education was in regards to statistics. Actually, it was two things. One, statistics don't lie. Two, statisticians do.

    "In 2008, 34 officers were killed in the line of duty with firearms. So far this year, we've lost 43 officers to firearms," said Chief Katherine Perez, president of the National Association of Women Law Enforcement Executives. "The trend is worsening, and we need to take immediate action."

    Fatality #1: Officer Tommy Bishop succumbed to complications of a gunshot wound sustained 16 years earlier while responding to a domestic disturbance.

    Fatality #6 of 2010: Sergeant Noel Cordero-Guzmán was shot and killed with his own weapon after intervening in a disturbance while off duty.

    He was at a local fast food restaurant with friends when he observed a group of people creating a disturbance. Sergeant Cordero-Guzmán had a previous encounter with one of the men causing the disturbance.

    Fatality #8: Sergeant Ira Essoe succumbed to complications of gunshot wounds sustained on November 6, 1980.

    Fatality #10: Officer Bob Heinle succumbed to complications from a gunshot wound suffered 11 years earlier, on October 21, 1998.

    Fatality #12 : Officer Chris Upton was shot and killed by a hunter who mistook him for game at the Ocmulgee Bluff Equestrian Recreation Area in Jasper County, Georgia.

    He was on patrol at 11:00 pm when he was struck by a shot fired by the hunter. The shooter was in a two-person hunting party hunting coyotes with a high-powered rifle equipped with night vision. After realizing they had shot an officer, the hunters called 911 and reported the incident.

    Fatality #23: Officer Thomas Wortham was shot and killed after identifying himself as a police officer when four subjects attempted to rob him while he was off duty at 11:25 pm.

    Officer Wortham was visiting his parents' home to show them pictures from the previous week's Police Week activities that he attended in Washington. As he was leaving, four men approached and attempted to rob him of his motorcycle.

    Fatality #26: Officer Jimmy Johnson succumbed to a gunshot wound sustained almost 30 years earlier as he and two other officers questioned an armed man, November 11, 1980.

    Fatality #28: Trooper Wesley Brown was shot and killed at approximately 12:40 am while working an off duty security detail at a bar in Forestville, Maryland.
    Earlier in the evening Trooper Brown had escorted a patron out of the bar who had refused to pay a bill. Trooper Brown was standing in the parking lot talking on his cell phone when the man returned and fatally shot him.

    Fatality #33: Officer Thor Soderberg was shot and killed in an apparent robbery attempt at about 3:45 pm near 61st Street and Racine Avenue.

    Officer Soderberg was returning to his vehicle at the end of his shift when he struggled with a male subject who approached from behind and was able to gain control of his service weapon.

    Fatality #34: Officer Michael Bailey was shot and killed while in front of his South Side home at approximately 6:20 am.

    Officer Bailey had just returned home from his shift on a mayoral protection detail, when as many as three male subjects approached and attempted to rob him of his vehicle.

    Fatality #37: Police Officer Carlos Ledesma was shot and killed while conducting an undercover 'reverse' bust operation in Phoenix.

    Officer Ledesma was working an undercover operation with two other officers. They were attempting to sell 500 pounds of marijuana. They had just arrived to complete the deal when the suspects came out firing at them.

    Not to trivialize any loss of life, but to bring proper perspective to the statistics given, eleven of those officers lost were shot years prior to 2010, shot off duty, or under situations where violence was expected. Darwin does not exempt blue uniforms.
    Well done. When you break things down this way they don't sound so scary and that would'nt serve their adjenda very well.
    "To sin by silence, when we should protest makes cowards out of men."
    Ella Wheeler Cox


    We must contact our lawmakers today, tomorrow and the next day to remind them of Constitutional Carry.
    Laws are not written because of the actions of many, they are wrtiten because of the inactions of many.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipper View Post
    Tax dollars at work restricting rights.

    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...105694743.html
    Quote from the above link:
    "Every day, gun violence threatens the safety and well-being of citizens and law enforcement officers throughout this country," said Chief Michael J. Carroll, president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police.

    Using the data on this link:

    http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2009/...llykilled.html

    he could have said:

    "Every day, bad driving threatens the safety and well-being of citizens and law enforcement officers throughout this country,"

    But what do you expect from the head of an organization that is a recipient of Joyce Foundation funding:

    http://www.theiacp.org/PublicationsG...8/Default.aspx
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

  7. #7
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    2009 leok

    I did not look up 2008 to see whether a large number were off duty and accidents. I did read all of 2009 on the FBI LEOKA report. In 2009, it appears that 4 officers were killed while off duty. Three in WA in a coffee shop getting ready for work and one in PA when he went, on his way home from work, to assist other officers who had been shot at a domestic disturbnace. "well done, it doesnt sound scarry" Really, the hate that some of the open carry proponents express for law enforcement is disturbing. Some people choose to OC, some do not, but you do not choose to go to domestic incidents, shootings, and serve high risk warrants. To say the deaths of officers "doesn't sound scarry" is about as disturbed as I can imagine a person to be.

  8. #8
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    I think the point here is that statistics can be manipulated. When you read the statistic, you would think that 43 officers were killed this year. Then when you read the actual facts, they are using deaths of officers shot 30 years ago...

    Any shooting deaths are terrible, officers or not. But deaths shouldn't be used to try to justify robbing people of their freedoms and rights. Organizations that do such things frequently "dance in the blood" of victims. Here you have some police organizations dancing in the blood of police officers for political ends. Sickening.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by running in circles View Post
    I did not look up 2008 to see whether a large number were off duty and accidents. I did read all of 2009 on the FBI LEOKA report. In 2009, it appears that 4 officers were killed while off duty. Three in WA in a coffee shop getting ready for work and one in PA when he went, on his way home from work, to assist other officers who had been shot at a domestic disturbnace. "well done, it doesnt sound scarry" Really, the hate that some of the open carry proponents express for law enforcement is disturbing. Some people choose to OC, some do not, but you do not choose to go to domestic incidents, shootings, and serve high risk warrants. To say the deaths of officers "doesn't sound scarry" is about as disturbed as I can imagine a person to be.
    I don't think anyone is making light of the loss and risk that comes with the job of law enforcement. I was attempting to sort the wheat from the chafe as far as the statistics the cooperative of police agencies where presenting. I can compile statistics to support anything. Whether they are accurate or not is another matter. In many cases here statistics are presented, they are used to sell a point, not present truth. In this instance, I am concerned that the joined forces of these agencies is to launch new and re-vitalized attempts at gun control, including more stringent restrictions on citizens rights to carry.

    The point is, this particular police contingency has an agenda, and it is obvious that they are not above distorting the truth to achieve their goals. Even at the expense of their fallen comrades. If the foundation of the organization is built on part truths, what will the finished product be? I think this is as good of a place as any to demand accountability, and demanding the truth from the onset is a fair start.

  10. #10
    bhancock
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    Firearms also SAVE lives

    Now the kicker would be to put up the opposing statistics. How many lives were saved or injuries minimized by the proper use of a firearm. How many rapes, robberies and assaults were averted by having a firearm available or in use. And my personal favorite which is immeasurable, how many crimes were abandoned by the criminal when in the preparation or casing of the job they found the risk too high because the proposed victim was armed. I would reckon that it would be at least a hundred to 1. If you just counted officers alone that used their weapons to save a life I think it would still be a hundred to one. The only thing you might be able to count is the measurable drop in homicides in a place that previously had a ban on weapons like D.C.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhancock View Post
    Now the kicker would be to put up the opposing statistics. How many lives were saved or injuries minimized by the proper use of a firearm. How many rapes, robberies and assaults were averted by having a firearm available or in use. And my personal favorite which is immeasurable, how many crimes were abandoned by the criminal when in the preparation or casing of the job they found the risk too high because the proposed victim was armed. I would reckon that it would be at least a hundred to 1. If you just counted officers alone that used their weapons to save a life I think it would still be a hundred to one. The only thing you might be able to count is the measurable drop in homicides in a place that previously had a ban on weapons like D.C.
    Just armed citizens is estimated to be 2.5 million times a year.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    If you are in a food service or sales occupation, you have a higher risk of death from homicide compared to other means of death than a cop has. See Table 3, page 8.

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf

    Cops don't make the "Top Ten" must dangerous job list. (this is an interesting graphic, especially in light of businesses that prohibit firearms "for the safety of our employees and customers").

    http://www.focus.com/images/view/30423/
    Last edited by Flipper; 10-28-2010 at 12:02 PM.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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