Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 52

Thread: The 4 MSP Legal updates that explain the legality of Open Carry in MI

  1. #1
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lawrence, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    3,845

    The 4 MSP Legal updates that explain the legality of Open Carry in MI

    The first legal update that mentions open carry of a pistol.

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...7_198953_7.pdf


    The second legal update the mentions open carry of a pistol.

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...7_198956_7.pdf


    The third legal update to mention open carry….

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...6_238184_7.pdf



    The newest legal update specifically dealing with the carry open or concealed of a pistol.

    And this is the big one as the entire update is completely and totally focused on carry law!

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdf
    Last edited by Mike; 01-05-2011 at 10:22 PM.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  2. #2
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Sticky! Sticky!

    ...or incorporate into the Open Carry Guide project sticky thread.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Sticky! Sticky!

    ...or incorporate into the Open Carry Guide project sticky thread.
    Option #2

  4. #4
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lawrence, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    3,845
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Sticky! Sticky!

    ...or incorporate into the Open Carry Guide project sticky thread.
    That is what we are going to do Malig and I have already discussed doing just that!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Belleville, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    126

    Thumbs up

    This is fantastic news. These updates validate All OCrs have been stating and for which we have been fighting all along. This is maJor victory. Congratulations to all involved in directing Michigan to issue these updates.

    These documents rate right up there with Constitution and Bible with me, at least close third to them. But for OCr it is extremely important. Question is: When are all LEO agencies required to train on these updates?

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Montague, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    100
    This is a great step for sure. But I don't like the way they stuck banks and credit unions in with depositories. IMO banks and credit unions don't fit the legal discription of a depository.

  7. #7
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Warren, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,101
    I plan on adding these to the OCGP, and also plan on adding relevant carry laws. I gotta talk to SAC to see if I can incorporate his post in it too.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    77

    ...

    This does give the non col holder something to think about if they are asked why or how they got to said location open carrying. On the second page, it specifies that non col holders cannot transport a weapon to open carry said weapon to a location outside of the exempt locations.
    Non cpl holders must ALWAYS be going to or from one of the exempt locations

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    I think that it is imparative that this issue be immediately adressed with the author, and corrected. open carry does fall in line with 231a under (vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

    What is not illegal in Michigan, is by default, a lawful activity.

  10. #10
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Quote Originally Posted by mudvr1212 View Post
    This does give the non col holder something to think about if they are asked why or how they got to said location open carrying. On the second page, it specifies that non col holders cannot transport a weapon to open carry said weapon to a location outside of the exempt locations.
    Non cpl holders must ALWAYS be going to or from one of the exempt locations
    Don't talk to police. Wash/Rinse/Repeat.

    I believe the law says (?) "en route", which could have several stops in between. Also, the author underlined the word "include".

    I do agree it is a bit troubling, the paragraph she included about "may be violating..."

    Again, WRR, folks.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  11. #11
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lawrence, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    3,845
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I think that it is imparative that this issue be immediately adressed with the author, and corrected. open carry does fall in line with 231a under (vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

    What is not illegal in Michigan, is by default, a lawful activity.
    This was already brought up with the author. I too can read and comprehend... they chose not to change that spot.. however they did adjust several others.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Oh my, this could go very badly for someone.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    If any of you are following this thread, you might want to look at what has been said on the Waterford Schools thread.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Scooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Dundee, Michigan
    Posts
    283
    This is huge! What a great update to see!

  15. #15
    Regular Member Billy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Merritt, Missaukee County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    64
    Thanks kindly for the informative post, Mr. Auto Surgeon.

    Respectfully,
    Billy
    "Salvation is of the LORD." -Jonah ii. 9c [AV]

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and
    believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall
    not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

    ---Jesus Christ the LORD, sent by the Father to effectually & fully SAVE poor,
    needy, wretched sinners by His own sovereign free grace and by His perfect
    righteousness charged to our accounts! (John v. 24, KJV)

  16. #16
    Regular Member k_rasmussen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    grosse pointe,michigan
    Posts
    3
    Pleased to be able to celebrate this legal update of 10/26/2010 with my first post.

  17. #17
    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Allegan co Michigan, USA
    Posts
    345
    Quote Originally Posted by k_rasmussen View Post
    Pleased to be able to celebrate this legal update of 10/26/2010 with my first post.
    Welcome to OC k_ras! carry on!

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    343
    Went to the second part of my CCW class, a MSP trooper giving the class on the Laws of the State of Michigan.

    He DID have a copy of bulletin #86, and touched on it briefly during his discussion.

    Later, while discussing the PFZ's, he mentioned all the places you could NOT carry weapons into, at which point I asked for clarification, asking if that meant carrying CONCEALED into these PFZ's, he stated that meant you could NOT carry into these places period.

    I pointed out the paragraph that stated that with a CPL and OPEN carrying that this statute "does not apply". He then stated that this was a confusing statement and that he had an e-mail to Lansing, asking for further clarification.

    We breifly discussed Open Carry, and why HE as a LEO didn't think that it was a good idea, citing scaring the Public and causing MWAG calls which COULD, he stressed COULD, cause some embarrasing situations for you as the gun carrier.

    I gave him my card and asked that when he received any clarification from Lansing to contact me with the results. I hope that he does, as it could then also be added to his discussion at these classes.

    Thoughts?

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    That's the same line that the Waterford PD gave me about the Waterford schools thing.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,157
    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    I pointed out the paragraph that stated that with a CPL and OPEN carrying that this statute "does not apply". He then stated that this was a confusing statement and that he had an e-mail to Lansing, asking for further clarification.
    CRIPES MAN! What the hell is he talking about? It's not confusing, it's plain as day and anybody with a 6th grade reading level should be able to understand it. He just doesn't like it so he's looking for ways to go on teaching the same old BS that he's always spouted. I'd ask for my money back since he's teaching incorrect/false information.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Ė Thomas Paine

  21. #21
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by k_rasmussen View Post
    Pleased to be able to celebrate this legal update of 10/26/2010 with my first post.
    welcome! and welcome to OC, if you ever want to get together on a week end drop me a PM and we can grab coffee! shaun

    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    Went to the second part of my CCW class, a MSP trooper giving the class on the Laws of the State of Michigan.

    He DID have a copy of bulletin #86, and touched on it briefly during his discussion.

    Later, while discussing the PFZ's, he mentioned all the places you could NOT carry weapons into, at which point I asked for clarification, asking if that meant carrying CONCEALED into these PFZ's, he stated that meant you could NOT carry into these places period.

    I pointed out the paragraph that stated that with a CPL and OPEN carrying that this statute "does not apply". He then stated that this was a confusing statement and that he had an e-mail to Lansing, asking for further clarification.

    We breifly discussed Open Carry, and why HE as a LEO didn't think that it was a good idea, citing scaring the Public and causing MWAG calls which COULD, he stressed COULD, cause some embarrasing situations for you as the gun carrier.

    I gave him my card and asked that when he received any clarification from Lansing to contact me with the results. I hope that he does, as it could then also be added to his discussion at these classes.

    Thoughts?
    he was basing his argument off of his personal opinion. he might not agree with it or is worried about giving his opinion and haveing it used against him somehow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    CRIPES MAN! What the hell is he talking about? It's not confusing, it's plain as day and anybody with a 6th grade reading level should be able to understand it. He just doesn't like it so he's looking for ways to go on teaching the same old BS that he's always spouted. I'd ask for my money back since he's teaching incorrect/false information.

    Bronson
    yes it is, your 100% right, but he dosen't want to make a stand on the issue one way or the other. when he said he was going to "ask for clarification" that was a non-answer and a good way to CYA.
    he may not agree with the #86 update and just didn't want to give the info out, or anyother of many reasons.

    or he may have been trying to help in his own way, he may not agree that OC with a CPL give a person the abillity to OC in a PFZ, and was recomending that you not do it to try and keep you out of trouble.

    just something to think about,,,

    but i agree with the general concensus that OC + CPL = OC in PFZ's
    Last edited by NHCGRPR45; 11-14-2010 at 09:05 PM.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,169

    PFZ's are

    are restriction to the general ability to carry concealed pistols. It is permissible to OC in a PFZ without any permit/license unless the place in the PFZ is either (a) also enumerated on the firearms free zone (750.234d - in that case, a MI CPL, or any state permit will authorize OC) or (b) covered by another provision of law. For example, Bob is a resident of Maryland and has (only) a Florida CCW. Can Bob carry concealed in MI? No, because the permit is not issued by his state of residence. May Bob openly carry in a PFZ? Sure. Because even if the PFZ is listed in the firearms free zones, Bob's FL permit exempts him. (Again, this assumes there is no other provision of law that applies.) There is nothing in 28.425o that requires a permit for OC in a PFZ. It really is a CPFZ (with a couple of exceptions). Where is the hole in this analysis?

  23. #23
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Quote Originally Posted by apjonas View Post
    Where is the hole in this analysis?
    You made the assumption that cops, judges, and DAs give 2 sh*ts about what the law says
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Roseville, California, USA
    Posts
    486

    MSP does not know MCL law!

    Hello Michigan,

    I am a Kalifornia resident. My wife owns a house in L'Anse.

    I asked A Baraga County Deputy Sherriff about non-residents possessing handguns in MI. I also asked an MSP officer about it. The DNR website stated that I could not. I have now read the 2008 legal update and know why they said I could not. MSP was not competant enough to read MCL and interpret the law.

    Last summer, I wrote MSP an email citing MCL which states that I can possess. The clerk at the Prosecuting Attorney's office knew more about MCL then MSP did. She gave me pertinent MCL statutes.

    Now, I have read MSP Legal Update #86. I can possess a pistol in Michigan; it is official.

    Thank you to the posters on this site that helped me to understand the difference between a CPL and a License To Purchase.

    Unbelievable. MSP did not know their own law. Just like Kalifornia LEO.

    Government is not the answer, it is the problem (Ronald Reagan).

    markm

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,169

    Misleading

    Possession of pistols by non-residents

    MCL 28.432 makes it legal for non-residents of Michigan who hold valid CPLs issued by another state to possess a non-concealed pistol in Michigan without complying with Michiganís pistol registration requirements.

    Additionally, MCL 28.422 exempts residents of other states from Michiganís pistol registration requirements therefore, allowing them to possess a pistol in Michigan, if all of the following requirements are met:

    1. The person is licensed by his or her state of residence to purchase, transport, or carry a pistol,
    2. The person is in possession of the license while in Michigan,
    3. The person owns the pistol possessed in Michigan,
    4. The person possesses the pistol for a lawful purpose as defined in MCL 750.231a, and
    5. The person is in Michigan less than 180 days and does not intend to establish residency here.
    A non-resident must present the license issued by his or her state of residence to a police officer upon demand. Failure to do so is a 90-day misdemeanor. When transporting a firearm in Michigan, non-residents must transport pistols in compliance with MCL 750.231a (discussed above in the Transporting Firearms section), unless they have a concealed pistol license issued by their state of residence.

    This last part should specifically include reference concealed possession. A person with a home state permit can possess/open carry under MCL 28.432. OC does not require a home state permit.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •