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1st time in a year, I have to be unarmed

kenzmad

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
96
Location
Kent, ,
So how did it go? You take the bus and go unarmed, or did you meet them there?
I just realized that you're in Kent. My wife just happens to be a dispatcher for Kent school district transportation. She drove a bus for about 7 years.

went unarmed. not happy about it but what do you do? zoo was empty. like 10 cars in the parking lot. next time i'll be meeting them there as I almost feel naked without my firearm. damn, my pants fit funny without the holster. where are you spyder? I am just south of KK off 124th. I have a septic cleaning service that I have put on friendorfoe if you want to see where I am at exactly.

kenzmad
 

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Just remember you are around kids.....who may be close contact.....hugs, grabs etc. Concealed means concealed from view......

It is possible to carry and having these "hugs, grabs, etc" from revealing your firearm. If one insists on carrying in those circumstances a full sized pistol like a 1911, Sig, HK, etc, then perhaps you might have to go "unarmed".

For those that don't mind "downsizing" when the occasion demands, small sub-compact pistols like the Kel-Tec provide some real good solutions. Ankle holsters can accommodate the larger options like "baby Glocks" or J-Frames while a Kel-Tec can be hung around your neck, inside your shirt, on a lanyard. It can also fit in the top of a western styled boot with a clip installed (tip: a loop of twine or heavy yarn in the clip can provide for a quick draw from a boot top.) Both locations are well concealed and are also outside the "grab/hug" zone. Naturally, carrying in this manner requires a CPL which won't help if discovered on a School Bus. Deep concealment like this works for undercover officers in circumstances that provide far worse consequences if discovered than being on a School Bus. If your concern is being "unarmed" and it is a valid concern due to the areas to be visited, these are options. There is always the old axiom "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6".

The keys are good concealment with a weapon that conceals well and most important keep it a secret!
 

killchain

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
788
Location
Richland, Washington, USA
Well it is time for the first field trip of the year for my 4th grader. I am going as a chaperone. We are headed out tomorrow for Woodland Park Zoo. As per school rules, I cannot possess any weapons. This is gonna feel weird as have not been unarmed since last year. Wish there was some consideration by the schools to their policy as they have no control over who is at the school "function" as they do on the school grounds.

kenzmad

I quote various people here and elsewhere...

"Concealed means concealed." The school can shove it later after you've protected your child.
 

dizzle2

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2010
Messages
189
Location
Lacey
wow, the one place with a bunch of people and you cant carry a weapon? i would at least take a taser or a little "pea shooter" pistol concealed in my sock! lol
 

kenzmad

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
96
Location
Kent, ,
I quote various people here and elsewhere...

"Concealed means concealed." The school can shove it later after you've protected your child.

my main concern with this is that schools are on the list of prohibited places for carrying and I believe the bus is an extention of the school while going to and from the zoo. we have another outing on wednesday that takes us out to a park and I will be meeting them there.

kenzmad
 

BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
my main concern with this is that schools are on the list of prohibited places for carrying and I believe the bus is an extention of the school while going to and from the zoo. we have another outing on wednesday that takes us out to a park and I will be meeting them there.

kenzmad

You are doing the right thing not to carry this week and to meet up when you can in future field trips.
The consequences are more then just a slap on the hand if detected carrying while on the school grounds (not picking up or dropping off a student) or the school bus. Not to mention what you kids will face and any future outings you will likely be restricted from.

On the other side of the coin do we pick and choose what laws we are willing to break in the name of self defense, I mean that is what the anti's accuse the law abiding of doing but by your approach you are working with in the law.

By all means in these events go concealed as you are legal to when you meet them at the event.

The next twist to this would be, if you were providing transportation for an school trip, can you still carry?
RCW 9.41.280
Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.
(2) Any such person violating subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1)(a) of this section, the person shall have his or her concealed pistol license, if any revoked for a period of three years. Anyone convicted under this subsection is prohibited from applying for a concealed pistol license for a period of three years. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.


 
Last edited:

jarhead1911A

New member
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
539
Location
, ,
thats a good idea, I hadn't thought about just being "there" and willing to take a few kids around. I am going to have to think on this one. what do you think the ramifications are since I already agreed to chaperone and did the fingerprints and the disclosure form if I said "I cant meet you at the school for the bus ride but can meet you at the zoo" and was discovered to be CCing. I CC in a crossbreed holster with a g26 so the odds of me being "made" are zero.

kenzmad


I am not sure what the school would do but personally i pick my kid of from school 2 x a week and i CC, i had the principal directly ask me if i was carrying a gun, I told him yes i was and he pointed to the sign that said no weapons.

I told him point blank to look at the RCW it listed and that until he has a highly armed security team swat trained or better escort my little girl from there front door to my truck door i would be carrying....

He looked at me and said "ok" and thats the last i have heard about it and that was about 2 years ago..

i dont know if that helps but i hope it does....

Out of site out of mind would probably work......
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
I was the PTA president. A very active parent in my daughters school lives when they were in elementary school. I was confronted with the field trip scenario several times. The reason I suggested the 'meet them there' is that it is well within the legalities of the issue and my principal at the time I was PTA president suggested it. He is very liberal, anti gun, but respected me enough to understand the issue. Traveling to Portland from Vancouver made him nervous. Having me there made him feel better.
 

kenzmad

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
96
Location
Kent, ,
I am not sure what the school would do but personally i pick my kid of from school 2 x a week and i CC, i had the principal directly ask me if i was carrying a gun, I told him yes i was and he pointed to the sign that said no weapons.

I told him point blank to look at the RCW it listed and that until he has a highly armed security team swat trained or better escort my little girl from there front door to my truck door i would be carrying....

He looked at me and said "ok" and thats the last i have heard about it and that was about 2 years ago..

i dont know if that helps but i hope it does....

Out of site out of mind would probably work......

I toocarry concealed to the school when picking up my girls. haven't had to explain myself to anyone as of yet but I don't try too hard to prevent printing so I am sure it is just a matter of time.

kenzmad
 

.45ACPaddy

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Messages
999
Location
Lakewood, WA
Last spring I regularly picked up my neighbor's kids from school, and I CC'd every time, knowing full and well about the exception. Gotta love RCW 9.41.280 (3) (e)
 

Trigger Dr

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
2,760
Location
Wa, ,
I OC'd in the school

To pick up my Grand daughter. My daughter is a single mother and due to her work schedule there were times that I or my wife had to pick up the grand daughter. School policy was that if not a parent, your name must be on the list as authorized to pick up, and you had to sign in. The principal told me that I "Cannot carry that in here".
I explained that the RCW specifically allows the carry of a firearm while picking up or dropping off a student. No reference is made to relationship to the student. With that, and the fact that I have to sign in to pick her up, I am in compliance with RCW.
The next time that I picked her up, I was OC again and the principal came out and said " I checked with an attorney, and you are correct. But it would be appreciated if you covered it up" I never had a problem after that. and I did not "cover it up"
 

tombrewster421

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,326
Location
Roy, WA
To pick up my Grand daughter. My daughter is a single mother and due to her work schedule there were times that I or my wife had to pick up the grand daughter. School policy was that if not a parent, your name must be on the list as authorized to pick up, and you had to sign in. The principal told me that I "Cannot carry that in here".
I explained that the RCW specifically allows the carry of a firearm while picking up or dropping off a student. No reference is made to relationship to the student. With that, and the fact that I have to sign in to pick her up, I am in compliance with RCW.
The next time that I picked her up, I was OC again and the principal came out and said " I checked with an attorney, and you are correct. But it would be appreciated if you covered it up" I never had a problem after that. and I did not "cover it up"

Well we can't have all the little children thinking that good people have guns now, can we? Good for you.
 

kenzmad

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
96
Location
Kent, ,
To pick up my Grand daughter. My daughter is a single mother and due to her work schedule there were times that I or my wife had to pick up the grand daughter. School policy was that if not a parent, your name must be on the list as authorized to pick up, and you had to sign in. The principal told me that I "Cannot carry that in here".
I explained that the RCW specifically allows the carry of a firearm while picking up or dropping off a student. No reference is made to relationship to the student. With that, and the fact that I have to sign in to pick her up, I am in compliance with RCW.
The next time that I picked her up, I was OC again and the principal came out and said " I checked with an attorney, and you are correct. But it would be appreciated if you covered it up" I never had a problem after that. and I did not "cover it up"

I will go back and reread the rcw when I get home but I thought we weren't allowed IN the school while OC or CCing but we were allowed ONTO school grounds to drop off or pick up our kids. can anyone clarify?

kenzmad
 

xxx.jakk.xxx

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
467
RCW 9.41.280

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

(f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school;

(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.


Looks like (e) isn't covered in the exemptions for INSIDE of the building. Though if you leave your weapon in your vehicle, you can carry it in the school...
 

kenzmad

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
96
Location
Kent, ,
RCW 9.41.280

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

(f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school;

(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.


Looks like (e) isn't covered in the exemptions for INSIDE of the building. Though if you leave your weapon in your vehicle, you can carry it in the school...

Thats the way I read it as well. I will stay right outside the door and wait for my girls to come out. I have not OC'd there yet but will do it the next opportunity I get. The principle and I do not see eye to eye on the way the school is run and I would love to have her approach me to tell me I "can't have that here". would be great letting her know that I can and will. A little education 101 on the constitution.

kenzmad
 
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