Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Battle Creek's "no weapons" sign....kind of

  1. #1
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,157

    Battle Creek's "no weapons" sign....kind of

    I stopped into the City Clerk's office for Battle Creek today to get an absentee ballot and I noticed their "No Weapons" sign. Interestingly I'm not sure it goes against pre-emption but I'm going to throw it up here and see who shoots at it.

    I couldn't get a pic but the sign essentially asks people to not bring weapons including firearms, even concealed, into the building. Here's the odd part...it then goes on to say that if you are suspected or found to be in possession of a firearm you may be required to be accompanied by a police officer while in the building.

    It doesn't prohibit you from entering, it asks you not to enter and it doesn't say you can't be in there with a firearm only that you may be required to have a baby-sitter while there.

    I also checked and there are no court offices in the building.

    I'm tempted to call them before I drop off my ballot and tell them I'll be carrying and to have an officer waiting there to escort me.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lyman, Maine
    Posts
    905
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    I stopped into the City Clerk's office for Battle Creek today to get an absentee ballot and I noticed their "No Weapons" sign. Interestingly I'm not sure it goes against pre-emption but I'm going to throw it up here and see who shoots at it.

    I couldn't get a pic but the sign essentially asks people to not bring weapons including firearms, even concealed, into the building. Here's the odd part...it then goes on to say that if you are suspected or found to be in possession of a firearm you may be required to be accompanied by a police officer while in the building.

    It doesn't prohibit you from entering, it asks you not to enter and it doesn't say you can't be in there with a firearm only that you may be required to have a baby-sitter while there.

    I also checked and there are no court offices in the building.

    I'm tempted to call them before I drop off my ballot and tell them I'll be carrying and to have an officer waiting there to escort me.

    Bronson
    123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
    Sec. 2.

    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.


    They cannot impose any regulation pertaining to the transportation or possession of firearms. Requiring a police escort is an extra regulation not accounted for under state law and therefore they cannot require it. However, I suppose if they found out about the pistol and then a police officer followed you around without interference, then I would assume that's within the rights of that officer to do... I would think it would cross the line if they stopped you and made you wait for the officer and didn't allow you to go about your business until he arrived.
    Last edited by boyscout399; 10-27-2010 at 04:23 AM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Saginaw, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,756
    Don't know about the actual legality and all that but....

    It seems to me that having a police officer "accompany" a citizen going about their legal business behaving in a legal manner, including the gun, would be nothing less than discriminatory harassment.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711
    Take 'em on - this policy is unlawful. You guys in Michigan need an attorney fee shifting provision in your preemption law - Ohio and Virginia now have these.

  5. #5
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    I wouldn't call to warn, but I would have my voice recorder with me! ( I always do).
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  6. #6
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336
    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
    Sec. 2.

    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.


    They cannot impose any regulation pertaining to the transportation or possession of firearms. Requiring a police escort is an extra regulation not accounted for under state law and therefore they cannot require it. However, I suppose if they found out about the pistol and then a police officer followed you around without interference, then I would assume that's within the rights of that officer to do... I would think it would cross the line if they stopped you and made you wait for the officer and didn't allow you to go about your business until he arrived.
    Agreed, Preemption applies if there is no court related activities in the building.

    Here is what I suggest (only go to the next step if it is not resolved, give them time at each step to respond):

    1. Go to the City Manager with a copy of MCL 123.1102 in hand and discuss the situation in a professional manner.

    2. Go to the City Attorney with a copy of MCL 123.1102 in hand and discuss the situation in a professional manner.

    3. Go to the City Mayor with a copy of MCL 123.1102 in hand and discuss the situation in a professional manner.

    4. Go to the City Council/Commission Meeting with a copy of MCL 123.1102 in hand and discuss the situation in a professional manner.

    5. Go to the Local Media with the story.

    While you can always file a court case for relief (injunction), you will spend $1000's you will likely not get back.

  7. #7
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Take 'em on - this policy is unlawful. You guys in Michigan need an attorney fee shifting provision in your preemption law - Ohio and Virginia now have these.
    I started that effort, but have held off for 3 reasons:

    1. People here and on other MI Firearm Sites have argued that no more laws are needed. I disagree, but there are changes to what I proposed that are needed prior to sending this off to MI Legislators.

    2. I have been too busy in both personal and work life.

    3. I have been waiting until the November Elections are done.

    I will work on this during this week and "resurrect" the thread with the updated language.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    Ferndale has tried a similar strategy at their fire stations. Says something like "please no weapons should be brought into this building, even if with a concealed pistol license." Not those words exactly, but to that extent.

    It's an interesting tactic, because it appears to me to be legal in both cases. As long as they don't disobey Michigan law, I can't blame them too much. I would however complain to the city council about the missapropriation of funds if a cop actually did follow me around.
    Last edited by Michigander; 10-27-2010 at 04:50 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Don't know about the actual legality and all that but....

    It seems to me that having a police officer "accompany" a citizen going about their legal business behaving in a legal manner, including the gun, would be nothing less than discriminatory harassment.
    Im with bikenut on this one. discriminatory harassment

    Michigander has a good point about wasting taxpayer dollars.

  10. #10
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    sounds wierd to me but hey a cop bodygaurd?? why not?

  11. #11
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336
    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    sounds wierd to me but hey a cop bodygaurd?? why not?
    Q: Why do you carry a gun?

    A: Because a cop is too heavy!

    I got the answer I needed for this after seeing the article on that recent Detroit Police Officer Shooting 12-15 rounds (cannot remember how many, but in that range) when a dog got loose from animal control. The result: Missed the dog, hit 2 Animal Control Officers.

    Yeah, I would feel REAL SAFE...

  12. #12
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Q: Why do you carry a gun?

    A: Because a cop is too heavy!

    I got the answer I needed for this after seeing the article on that recent Detroit Police Officer Shooting 12-15 rounds (cannot remember how many, but in that range) when a dog got loose from animal control. The result: Missed the dog, hit 2 Animal Control Officers.

    Yeah, I would feel REAL SAFE...
    don't forget the bystander! it was a lady i believe! but if a cop wanted to follow me around all day as my personal copper, then after i had verified his shooting skills then why not right? some crazy guy gets upset cause i bumped his woman property, all i would have to do is point the old thumb over the shoulder and say "tell it to the cop!" only this time THERE would be a cop there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    hell issue me 2 so long as i don't have to feed it water it or clean up its mess!
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Marshall, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    18
    Have you seen the one on the door at city hall in BC? I think it was that one right next to the police station. I used to work for Fedex and I had a package for them once and the sign said something like no weapons allowed for the saftey of the public. I wish I would have got a pic of it but I left my phone in the truck that time.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,157
    Quote Originally Posted by Kovernm View Post
    Have you seen the one on the door at city hall in BC? I think it was that one right next to the police station. I used to work for Fedex and I had a package for them once and the sign said something like no weapons allowed for the saftey of the public. I wish I would have got a pic of it but I left my phone in the truck that time.
    That's the one I'm talking about. It doesn't say you CAN'T carry it ASKS you not to. It also doesn't say you'll be escorted out/asked to leave only that you may be required to be escorted by a LEO if you are carrying.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  15. #15
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Hazel Park, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,383
    I am sorry, I know some are taking this issue seriously, and possible rightfully so. That being said, I find this freakin hilarious! I kinda wish they had this at some particular Police Stations/City Halls, this way I could hang out with buddies while they got paid. LOL! And every time I go into a police station I OC, so (to steal a line) yata hey!

    Rock Out With Your Glock Out!
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  16. #16
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,157
    Yeah yeah necropost....

    Update:

    I stopped in to the Battle Creek City Hall yesterday to pay them the $2.00 I owed in taxes and the sign is gone. I looked all around the entrance and the only thing there is a "no smoking" sign.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  17. #17
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Yeah yeah necropost....

    Update:

    I stopped in to the Battle Creek City Hall yesterday to pay them the $2.00 I owed in taxes and the sign is gone. I looked all around the entrance and the only thing there is a "no smoking" sign.

    Bronson
    Ah, shucks that cop escort business might have taken off.

    Sarcasm off. Good job and its nice they got rid of that stupid sign.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  18. #18
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Police State, USA
    Posts
    1,270
    I wonder if its because they read this thread.... lol

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •