• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Battle Creek's "no weapons" sign....kind of

Bronson

Bronson

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,126
Location
Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
I stopped into the City Clerk's office for Battle Creek today to get an absentee ballot and I noticed their "No Weapons" sign. Interestingly I'm not sure it goes against pre-emption but I'm going to throw it up here and see who shoots at it.

I couldn't get a pic but the sign essentially asks people to not bring weapons including firearms, even concealed, into the building. Here's the odd part...it then goes on to say that if you are suspected or found to be in possession of a firearm you may be required to be accompanied by a police officer while in the building.

It doesn't prohibit you from entering, it asks you not to enter and it doesn't say you can't be in there with a firearm only that you may be required to have a baby-sitter while there.

I also checked and there are no court offices in the building.

I'm tempted to call them before I drop off my ballot and tell them I'll be carrying and to have an officer waiting there to escort me.

Bronson
 
B

boyscout399

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine
Bronson said:
I stopped into the City Clerk's office for Battle Creek today to get an absentee ballot and I noticed their "No Weapons" sign. Interestingly I'm not sure it goes against pre-emption but I'm going to throw it up here and see who shoots at it.

I couldn't get a pic but the sign essentially asks people to not bring weapons including firearms, even concealed, into the building. Here's the odd part...it then goes on to say that if you are suspected or found to be in possession of a firearm you may be required to be accompanied by a police officer while in the building.

It doesn't prohibit you from entering, it asks you not to enter and it doesn't say you can't be in there with a firearm only that you may be required to have a baby-sitter while there.

I also checked and there are no court offices in the building.

I'm tempted to call them before I drop off my ballot and tell them I'll be carrying and to have an officer waiting there to escort me.

Bronson
Click to expand...

123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
Sec. 2.

A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

They cannot impose any regulation pertaining to the transportation or possession of firearms. Requiring a police escort is an extra regulation not accounted for under state law and therefore they cannot require it. However, I suppose if they found out about the pistol and then a police officer followed you around without interference, then I would assume that's within the rights of that officer to do... I would think it would cross the line if they stopped you and made you wait for the officer and didn't allow you to go about your business until he arrived.
 
Last edited:
B

Bikenut

Guest
Don't know about the actual legality and all that but....

It seems to me that having a police officer "accompany" a citizen going about their legal business behaving in a legal manner, including the gun, would be nothing less than discriminatory harassment.
 
M

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Take 'em on - this policy is unlawful. You guys in Michigan need an attorney fee shifting provision in your preemption law - Ohio and Virginia now have these.
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
boyscout399 said:
123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
Sec. 2.

A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

They cannot impose any regulation pertaining to the transportation or possession of firearms. Requiring a police escort is an extra regulation not accounted for under state law and therefore they cannot require it. However, I suppose if they found out about the pistol and then a police officer followed you around without interference, then I would assume that's within the rights of that officer to do... I would think it would cross the line if they stopped you and made you wait for the officer and didn't allow you to go about your business until he arrived.
Click to expand...

Agreed, Preemption applies if there is no court related activities in the building.

Here is what I suggest (only go to the next step if it is not resolved, give them time at each step to respond):

1. Go to the City Manager with a copy of MCL 123.1102 in hand and discuss the situation in a professional manner.

2. Go to the City Attorney with a copy of MCL 123.1102 in hand and discuss the situation in a professional manner.

3. Go to the City Mayor with a copy of MCL 123.1102 in hand and discuss the situation in a professional manner.

4. Go to the City Council/Commission Meeting with a copy of MCL 123.1102 in hand and discuss the situation in a professional manner.

5. Go to the Local Media with the story.

While you can always file a court case for relief (injunction), you will spend $1000's you will likely not get back.
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
Mike said:
Take 'em on - this policy is unlawful. You guys in Michigan need an attorney fee shifting provision in your preemption law - Ohio and Virginia now have these.
Click to expand...

I started that effort, but have held off for 3 reasons:

1. People here and on other MI Firearm Sites have argued that no more laws are needed. I disagree, but there are changes to what I proposed that are needed prior to sending this off to MI Legislators.

2. I have been too busy in both personal and work life.

3. I have been waiting until the November Elections are done.

I will work on this during this week and "resurrect" the thread with the updated language.
 
Michigander

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
Ferndale has tried a similar strategy at their fire stations. Says something like "please no weapons should be brought into this building, even if with a concealed pistol license." Not those words exactly, but to that extent.

It's an interesting tactic, because it appears to me to be legal in both cases. As long as they don't disobey Michigan law, I can't blame them too much. I would however complain to the city council about the missapropriation of funds if a cop actually did follow me around.
 
Last edited:
stainless1911

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Bikenut said:
Don't know about the actual legality and all that but....

It seems to me that having a police officer "accompany" a citizen going about their legal business behaving in a legal manner, including the gun, would be nothing less than discriminatory harassment.
Click to expand...

Im with bikenut on this one. discriminatory harassment

Michigander has a good point about wasting taxpayer dollars.
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
NHCGRPR45 said:
sounds wierd to me but hey a cop bodygaurd?? why not?
Click to expand...

Q: Why do you carry a gun?

A: Because a cop is too heavy!

I got the answer I needed for this after seeing the article on that recent Detroit Police Officer Shooting 12-15 rounds (cannot remember how many, but in that range) when a dog got loose from animal control. The result: Missed the dog, hit 2 Animal Control Officers.

Yeah, I would feel REAL SAFE...
 
NHCGRPR45

NHCGRPR45

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
1,131
Location
Chesterfield Township, MI
PDinDetroit said:
Q: Why do you carry a gun?

A: Because a cop is too heavy!

I got the answer I needed for this after seeing the article on that recent Detroit Police Officer Shooting 12-15 rounds (cannot remember how many, but in that range) when a dog got loose from animal control. The result: Missed the dog, hit 2 Animal Control Officers.

Yeah, I would feel REAL SAFE...
Click to expand...

don't forget the bystander! it was a lady i believe! but if a cop wanted to follow me around all day as my personal copper, then after i had verified his shooting skills then why not right? some crazy guy gets upset cause i bumped his woman property:cuss:, all i would have to do is point the old thumb over the shoulder and say "tell it to the cop!" only this time THERE would be a cop there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:banana:

hell issue me 2 so long as i don't have to feed it water it or clean up its mess!:D
 
K

Kovernm

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
18
Location
Marshall, Michigan, USA
Have you seen the one on the door at city hall in BC? I think it was that one right next to the police station. I used to work for Fedex and I had a package for them once and the sign said something like no weapons allowed for the saftey of the public. I wish I would have got a pic of it but I left my phone in the truck that time.
 
Bronson

Bronson

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,126
Location
Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
Kovernm said:
Have you seen the one on the door at city hall in BC? I think it was that one right next to the police station. I used to work for Fedex and I had a package for them once and the sign said something like no weapons allowed for the saftey of the public. I wish I would have got a pic of it but I left my phone in the truck that time.
Click to expand...

That's the one I'm talking about. It doesn't say you CAN'T carry it ASKS you not to. It also doesn't say you'll be escorted out/asked to leave only that you may be required to be escorted by a LEO if you are carrying.

Bronson
 
eastmeyers

eastmeyers

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
1,363
Location
Hazel Park, Michigan, USA
I am sorry, I know some are taking this issue seriously, and possible rightfully so. That being said, I find this freakin hilarious! I kinda wish they had this at some particular Police Stations/City Halls, this way I could hang out with buddies while they got paid. LOL! And every time I go into a police station I OC, so (to steal a line) yata hey!

Rock Out With Your Glock Out!
 
Bronson

Bronson

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,126
Location
Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
Yeah yeah necropost....

Update:

I stopped in to the Battle Creek City Hall yesterday to pay them the $2.00 I owed in taxes and the sign is gone. I looked all around the entrance and the only thing there is a "no smoking" sign.

Bronson
 
NHCGRPR45

NHCGRPR45

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
1,131
Location
Chesterfield Township, MI
Bronson said:
Yeah yeah necropost....

Update:

I stopped in to the Battle Creek City Hall yesterday to pay them the $2.00 I owed in taxes and the sign is gone. I looked all around the entrance and the only thing there is a "no smoking" sign.

Bronson
Click to expand...

Ah, shucks that cop escort business might have taken off.
:lol:
Sarcasm off. Good job and its nice they got rid of that stupid sign.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top