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Thread: The vision of our forefathers. Which country fits the description the closest?

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    The vision of our forefathers. Which country fits the description the closest?

    Obviously if our forefathers were to come back today, they'd throw up at the sight of what has happened to our country, compared to what they had visioned for it.

    My question is, of all countries, which ones most closely fit how the founding fathers viewed our nation back when the Constitution was written and signed?

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    Usa!usa!usa!

    As messed up as things are in this country, there is still no other even close!!
    Last edited by Hunterdave; 10-27-2010 at 07:39 PM.

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    Alaska.

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    The US.

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    We're the worlds last, best hope my friend.

    The British Empire is a police state, Europe for the most part has gone into a watered down form of socialism, there are still plenty of communist countries out there, Mexico seems to be run by the drug cartels and corrupt civil servants who work for the drug cartels, and the 3rd world places each seem to have their own warlords.

    If America fails there is no place left to run.
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    How about Switzerland? How's their politics?

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    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    How about Switzerland? How's their politics?
    Just google Switzerland and let us know.
    Last edited by frommycolddeadhands; 10-27-2010 at 10:34 PM. Reason: Edit for length
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

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    Regular Member ChiangShih's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    How about Switzerland? How's their politics?
    A multi-party federal parliamentary democratic republic. Switzerland's unique political system is today world's most stable democratic system, offering a maximum of participation to citizens.

    The system they have set up is actually pretty interesting if you're into political science, although I'm not sure it would be applicable here in the U.S. due to land mass, population, parties, etc.

    As for OP's question I would have to say the U.S. we have a unique take on democracy as well and it is probably closest to what the framers intended. I don't necessarily think the forefathers would be upset, as their system is still working, we just keep voting the wrong people in.
    Tiocfaidh Ar La

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    Regular Member ChiangShih's Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by frommycolddeadhands View Post
    We're the worlds last, best hope my friend.

    The British Empire is a police state, Europe for the most part has gone into a watered down form of socialism, there are still plenty of communist countries out there, Mexico seems to be run by the drug cartels and corrupt civil servants who work for the drug cartels, and the 3rd world places each seem to have their own warlords.

    If America fails there is no place left to run.
    I'd go to the Netherlands, it's pretty and I love the dutch.
    Tiocfaidh Ar La

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    I hate to rain on anybody's patriot parade, but the Founders did not have the idea that the US would endure as some wonderful place.

    First, it was considered an experiment, and sometimes still is. The implication being it might not turn out.

    Thomas Jefferson knew the natural progress was for government to grow and freedom to shrink. Consider also his liberty tree comment.

    Even within the first few years there was at least one little crisis where (New England, I think) was threatening secession over something or other.

    There were obvious violations of the 1st Amendment in the Alien and Sedition Acts.

    Consider that the Framers did not include a Bill of Rights. It took the actions George Mason, Patrick Henry, and others to get the Bill of Rights. Even Madison did not want it initially. Only after the ruckus over the lack of a Bill of Rights threatened to derail ratification of the Constitution itself, did we get a Bill of Rights.

    Ben Franklin gave the closing address to the Constitutional Convention. He was thought it wouldn't work. He lent his support to the Constitution because he felt nothing better could be achieved, and that the Constitution would provide some benefit while it lasted, and that he thought he might be wrong. Actually, Franklin was too ill to read it. He wrote it, and another read it to the convention for him. You can read it at the link below. Pretty amazing stuff.

    The Framers knew this was gonna be iffy. I'm pretty sure none were so unwise in the ways of the world and human nature as to hold some vision of enduring wonderfulness.

    http://www.thisnation.com/library/accepting.html

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    It's why it's good to look into the anti-federalist papers.

    Another good book to read is Indian Giver, so much of the U.S. government policies were borrowed from Iroquois form of government, which had been in place for centuries before europeans arrived.

    Jefferson even said something to the effect "if the savages can...."

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    There are plenty of countries that have aspects of the Founders' vision, perhaps even a trifle better than we do. But in most cases, those aspects are counter-balanced by aspects that they've gotten wrong. In England and Australia, of course, it's guns. Germany, from what I've read, seems to be fairly good with guns. On the other hand, they have massive free speech problems with various WWII-related issues. (Although given their history, that's somewhat understandable.)

    In general, Switzerland, Australia, Israel, and western Canada seem to be the closest overall.

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    Wow. I can't believe that any nation on Earth comes closer to our Founders' ideals than the US. (Although, we do fall short ourselves.) I know of no other nation on Earth that maintains in its source documents fundamental rights to the extent we do and still regularly looks back to them to try (not always successfully) to fully protect those rights.

    The sovereignty of the individual is so ingrained in our culture that those would take our rights constantly run afoul of massive general opinion, even when those who instinctively fight the usurpation of rights don't fully understand what they are or why they need defending.

    The greatest thing we can do to protect the Republic would be to encourage those who are fighting for individual Liberty to continue to do so, even if they are slightly misguided.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer22 View Post
    There are plenty of countries that have aspects of the Founders' vision, perhaps even a trifle better than we do. But in most cases, those aspects are counter-balanced by aspects that they've gotten wrong. In England and Australia, of course, it's guns. Germany, from what I've read, seems to be fairly good with guns. On the other hand, they have massive free speech problems with various WWII-related issues. (Although given their history, that's somewhat understandable.)

    In general, Switzerland, Australia, Israel, and western Canada seem to be the closest overall.
    Europe also has a bit of a problem with murdering or severely assaulting people for minor infractions. They seem to lack many protections like the 4th 5th, and a few other amendments.

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