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Thread: Open carry with a In the waist band holster with out a concealed carry permit?

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    Open carry with a In the waist band holster with out a concealed carry permit?

    anybody here open carry with a IWB holster without a concealed carry permit?

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    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    I don't, but I have met someone who does.

    The key is to make sure that the firearm is easily recognizable as a firearm - i.e., make sure at least the grip is sticking out.

    Other than that, go for it.
    Taurus PT1911 .45 ACP. Carried in condition 1, with a total of 25 rounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elixin77 View Post
    I don't, but I have met someone who does.

    The key is to make sure that the firearm is easily recognizable as a firearm - i.e., make sure at least the grip is sticking out.

    Other than that, go for it.

    I thought about trying it out, But wanted to get another opinion. Everyone I have talked to (Off forum) Say its a tricky situation and not to try it.

    I'll tuck in my shirt that way, The weapon is less likely to get concealed.
    I'm gonna get a different IWB holster (With some type of retention ) Before I start carrying in more populated areas.

    I got a uncle mikes holster right now (No retention)

    Just looking for something different than my serpa, I'll still use it though.

    I have to wait another 11 months before I can take the Concealed carry class, Can't wait.

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    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    The key question you need to ask yourself is:

    -does this look like a gun?

    if someone else (apart from you) says 'yes' your good to go.
    Taurus PT1911 .45 ACP. Carried in condition 1, with a total of 25 rounds.

    Vice President of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, ECU Chapter

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    Regular Member OSOK's Avatar
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    hotrod8812

    I don't carry with an IWB holster, but my friend does. I personally dont like this type of holster while OC'ing because of the shirt issue. If you are at all active it seems that most shirts become untucked some what. That combined with most IWB holsters that are more than likley designed for CC can become more of a nusence than an asset. I guess what I would say is just be aware of the fact that you may inadvertantly cover you weapon without even realizing it. Good luck

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod8812 View Post
    I thought about trying it out, But wanted to get another opinion. Everyone I have talked to (Off forum) Say its a tricky situation and not to try it.

    I'll tuck in my shirt that way, The weapon is less likely to get concealed.
    I'm gonna get a different IWB holster (With some type of retention ) Before I start carrying in more populated areas.

    I got a uncle mikes holster right now (No retention)

    Just looking for something different than my serpa, I'll still use it though.

    I have to wait another 11 months before I can take the Concealed carry class, Can't wait.
    On a side note, don't be in such a hurry for the class and permit. Legally, it opens you up to a higher standard, sort of a "you should have known better" premise. Much like an off-post pass (for those of us that have been stationed overseas in the military), it's the first thing they want to take away from you for even minor issues.

    Personally, I find it somewhat offensive that the permit is something we have to get in the first place. However, I may break down this year and get one due to not wanting to be involved with arguments with LEO's concerning OC/ CC during winter months where I'm more apt to wear coats and jackets.

    In your case where you may be using a holster that could have you inadvertently causing your weapon to be "concealed" with clothing, it may be something you want to pursue, but on the other hand, the permit comes with a myriad of regulations which can be confusing and cause all sorts of headaches.

    Even with a permit, I'll still be mostly OCing. I'll only have it for two reasons: to cover my ass when longer, heavier clothing is worn, and to be legal when I'm forced to disarm before going into areas where guns are not allowed. The permit allows you to hide your weapon in your car instead of leaving it in full view (thereby enticing thieves to steal it) as law currently dictates.

    As with almost anything, most of the situations you'll find yourself in will be up to the individual interpretation of the specific LEO's you'll encounter. Some lean one way and others lean the opposite. Sadly, I guess there's no standard when it comes to training and enforcing statutes related to guns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elixin77 View Post
    The key question you need to ask yourself is:

    -does this look like a gun?

    if someone else (apart from you) says 'yes' your good to go.

    Yes, I had a guy the other day that didnt know I carried and He seen that it was a gun (And my shirt wasn't even tucked in) BUT was tucked behind the holster.

    I was at my uncles and just got the holster and I wanted to try it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OSOK View Post
    hotrod8812

    I don't carry with an IWB holster, but my friend does. I personally dont like this type of holster while OC'ing because of the shirt issue. If you are at all active it seems that most shirts become untucked some what. That combined with most IWB holsters that are more than likley designed for CC can become more of a nusence than an asset. I guess what I would say is just be aware of the fact that you may inadvertantly cover you weapon without even realizing it. Good luck

    I understand, I will keep an eye on it, If I decide to use it, Thanks
    Last edited by hotrod8812; 10-28-2010 at 07:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    On a side note, don't be in such a hurry for the class and permit. Legally, it opens you up to a higher standard, sort of a "you should have known better" premise. Much like an off-post pass (for those of us that have been stationed overseas in the military), it's the first thing they want to take away from you for even minor issues.

    Personally, I find it somewhat offensive that the permit is something we have to get in the first place. However, I may break down this year and get one due to not wanting to be involved with arguments with LEO's concerning OC/ CC during winter months where I'm more apt to wear coats and jackets.

    In your case where you may be using a holster that could have you inadvertently causing your weapon to be "concealed" with clothing, it may be something you want to pursue, but on the other hand, the permit comes with a myriad of regulations which can be confusing and cause all sorts of headaches.

    Even with a permit, I'll still be mostly OCing. I'll only have it for two reasons: to cover my ass when longer, heavier clothing is worn, and to be legal when I'm forced to disarm before going into areas where guns are not allowed. The permit allows you to hide your weapon in your car instead of leaving it in full view (thereby enticing thieves to steal it) as law currently dictates.

    As with almost anything, most of the situations you'll find yourself in will be up to the individual interpretation of the specific LEO's you'll encounter. Some lean one way and others lean the opposite. Sadly, I guess there's no standard when it comes to training and enforcing statutes related to guns.


    My main reason for wanting my CHP is it makes it easier for vehicular carry.
    When I get my Permit I will still OC in fact maybe OC more.


    My thought was if stopped, LE could say that holster was for CC thus thinking I was trying to CC and it just happen to show ETC.
    As long as I don't anything illegal, A leo shouldn't stop me just for having the weapon in my waistband, And if people can see that its there how can a CC charge stick.




    The United States Supreme Court
    (see Terry V. Ohio) and the North Carolina courts
    (see State V. Huntley) have ruled that peacably
    carrying an unconcealed weapon is not in itself
    grounds for a police officer to stop or question you.
    A police officer has to have a reasonable suspicion
    that the person “has committed, is committing, or is
    about to commit a crime” before questioning or
    detaining you.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    I finally broke down on the CHP. I've applied for it, should get it sometime in November or December.

    I still intend to OC, but I want to be able to carry in SC, have concealed as an option, be able to throw on a coat without having to worry about it, etc.

    I still don't like the idea that I have to have a permit for it.

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    Regular Member Northerner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod8812 View Post
    I have to wait another 11 months before I can take the Concealed carry class, Can't wait.
    ??? What would make you wait, if you don't mind me asking?

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northerner View Post
    ??? What would make you wait, if you don't mind me asking?
    My guess is that he's waiting to turn 21.

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    Regular Member Northerner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod8812 View Post
    anybody here open carry with a IWB holster without a concealed carry permit?
    I OC because I generally wear polos and button down shirts tucked in my pants. It's just easier. I do have a CHP to make it easier for me to have my firearm inside my car/truck. But, a few times I haven't been able to strap on my SERPA II retention holster, so I'll tuck my G23 in my waist band using my Uncle Mikes IWB. My expeirence has shown I get more "looks" and "stares" from people when the butt of my G23 is protruding from my waist band than I do with my retention holster (OCing). In my opinion, most see the SERPA II holster "looking like LEO" vs. a "criminal/thug" with the butt hanging out of my waist band. My point...OCing with IWB (although legal but open to the LEO's opinion) may present an unwanted perception by those around you, bringing unwanted attention. I would continue to get the CHP to at least get by the LEO opinion of OC vs. Concealed.
    Last edited by Northerner; 10-28-2010 at 05:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northerner View Post
    I OC because I generally wear polos and button down shirts tucked in my pants. It's just easier. I do have a CHP to make it easier for me to have my firearm inside my car/truck. But, a few times I haven't been able to strap on my SERPA II retention holster, so I'll tuck my G23 in my waist band using my Uncle Mikes IWB. My expeirence has shown I get more "looks" and "stares" from people when the butt of my G23 is protruding from my waist band than I do with my retention holster (OCing). In my opinion, most see the SERPA II holster "looking like LEO" vs. a "criminal/thug" with the butt hanging out of my waist band. My point...OCing with IWB (although legal but open to the LEO's opinion) may present an unwanted perception by those around you, bringing unwanted attention. I'd get continue to get the CHP to at least get by the LEO opinion of OC vs. Concealed.

    That kinda answers my ? as to if I want to try out using a IWB holster.

    I have a SERPA holster I use also.
    I thought if I went with a IWB holster maybe the weapon would be less Noticed.
    (For more than one reason)

    I'm not 21 yet but as soon as I turn 21 I'll be getting my CHP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    My guess is that he's waiting to turn 21.
    Dead on LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod8812 View Post
    Dead on LOL
    This was a hint.

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    [QUOTE=rotorhead;1388274]On a side note, don't be in such a hurry for the class and permit. Legally, it opens you up to a higher standard, sort of a "you should have known better" premise. Much like an off-post pass (for those of us that have been stationed overseas in the military), it's the first thing they want to take away from you for even minor issues.

    Well I have to agree it sets you up to be held to a higher standard, But like I was told a few years back by a DA and the captain of detectives Not knowing the law isn't a defense.
    Meaning Even without a CHP If you gonna do something Know the limits Understand whats what And if you don't, that isn't a defense
    Last edited by hotrod8812; 10-28-2010 at 09:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod8812 View Post
    I'm not 21 yet but as soon as I turn 21 I'll be getting my CHP.
    FYI, you do not have to be 21 to take the class. And the certificate does not expire. So take the class early. Then walk in on your Bday to turn in the paperwork. Might save a bit of time.

    If you get hounded for "trying to conceal", you could ask them how they knew you had a gun. If they see it, it's open. Right? Personally, I just go all out with a SERPA.

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    [QUOTE=rotorhead;1388274]On a side note, don't be in such a hurry for the class and permit. Legally, it opens you up to a higher standard, sort of a "you should have known better" premise. Much like an off-post pass (for those of us that have been stationed overseas in the military), it's the first thing they want to take away from you for even minor issues.

    I hear this higher standard brought up often. Is there case law to prove that or is it just an assumption?
    Last edited by cricketdad; 10-29-2010 at 05:11 AM.

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    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    Thats just an assumption, IMO.

    People think that you 'should know better' because you've been taught laws pertaining to CC'ing. As someone else said though - 'I didn't know' isn't a valid defense when charged with manslaughter.
    Taurus PT1911 .45 ACP. Carried in condition 1, with a total of 25 rounds.

    Vice President of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, ECU Chapter

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    FYI, you do not have to be 21 to take the class. And the certificate does not expire. So take the class early. Then walk in on your Bday to turn in the paperwork. Might save a bit of time.

    If you get hounded for "trying to conceal", you could ask them how they knew you had a gun. If they see it, it's open. Right? Personally, I just go all out with a SERPA.
    Thats what Im gonna do, I should have made it clear I have to wait 11 months to fill out the CHP form but me and my brother in law are going together in January sometime to take the class.


    Right on, THat was my thought, I just hope no one says anything, THough if need be ill confront the issue.


    Yeah I LOVE my serpa the only reason I was looking for something less noticeable is I have to go out alot at night (Not because I want too) ANd most times Its not the best area, ANd when I am carrying in those areas people ask why I am carrying and sometimes make a big deal out of it.

    I have been told (By more than one person while i was carrying) I must have a Small D*** because I have to carry a gun to defend my self, I want tell you my reply.

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=cricketdad;1388959]
    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    On a side note, don't be in such a hurry for the class and permit. Legally, it opens you up to a higher standard, sort of a "you should have known better" premise. Much like an off-post pass (for those of us that have been stationed overseas in the military), it's the first thing they want to take away from you for even minor issues.

    I hear this higher standard brought up often. Is there case law to prove that or is it just an assumption?
    I'll attempt to clarify myself in response to this and hotrod's post.

    I do not believe there is case law or anything spelled out in any NC or federal statute which legally sets a CHP holder to a higher legal standard than one without a permit as it pertains to carrying a handgun. In that sense, I misspoke (or better yet, simply messed up) and did not mean to imply there is a higher "legal" standard.

    Given that, I will say it's an assumption on my part based on conversations I've had with both LEOs and friends who have a CHP in this state. Based on these conversations I have been very hesitant to apply for a CHP as it seems to be the first thing the state wants to take away if there's any appearance of wrong doing on my part. Even if found not guilty it's still subject to being suspended until after a matter is resolved in court- as was the case involving one of my friends a year ago.

    Personally, I just don't want any part of the CHP. I may end up getting one for reasons I stated earlier, but other than that, I'm not big on "hall pass" policies being attached to my rights.

    To each his own though, I reckon.

    Sorry about the confusion, btw

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    Quote Originally Posted by elixin77 View Post
    Thats just an assumption, IMO.

    People think that you 'should know better' because you've been taught laws pertaining to CC'ing. As someone else said though - 'I didn't know' isn't a valid defense when charged with manslaughter.

    I'm not sure the state (I don't think it was NC) SO it doesn't really count here.
    But in one state, If you were caught carrying concealed in a place that served alcohol without a CHP it was a misdemeanor and if you were caught carrying Concealed with a permit it was a felony.

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    Regular Member Resto Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    .....Even with a permit, I'll still be mostly OCing. I'll only have it for two reasons: to cover my ass when longer, heavier clothing is worn, and to be legal when I'm forced to disarm before going into areas where guns are not allowed. The permit allows you to hide your weapon in your car instead of leaving it in full view (thereby enticing thieves to steal it) as law currently dictates.
    I may be reading too much into your comment, but just in case I'm not let me say this. If you are not in your vehicle, you legally can (and should) hide and lock your handgun from view if it has to be left behind. Having a permit to conceal in this instance does not matter if your vehicle is unoccupied, only if it is occupied. Now, if you were to leave your weapon hidden in your car and others occupy it (NOT minors or "permitted" adults, of course), they would be in possession of a concealed weapon, even if unknowingly. In that event, it should be left in the open to prevent the occupants from being in violation.
    Whenever re-entering your vehicle if alone, you can retrieve the weapon and place it in view before doing anything else.
    Last edited by Resto Guy; 10-29-2010 at 07:01 PM.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resto Guy View Post
    I may be reading too much into your comment, but just in case I'm not let me say this. If you are not in your vehicle, you legally can (and should) hide and lock your handgun from view if it has to be left behind. Having a permit to conceal in this instance does not matter if your vehicle is unoccupied, only if it is occupied. Now, if you were to leave your weapon hidden in your car and others occupy it (NOT minors or "permitted" adults, of course), they would be in possession of a concealed weapon, even if unknowingly. In that event, it should be left in the open to prevent the occupants from being in violation.
    Whenever re-entering your vehicle if alone, you can retrieve the weapon and place it in view before doing anything else.
    +1, I read that comment the same way.

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