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    Gun seized by police

    Hello, I have been lurking for a long time and have learned alot from this site. I finally decided to join and hope that someone has some advice for me. Awhile back I met a friend of a friend who is a gun collector. Times have been tough and two weeks ago I needed money to pay my rent. I borrowed money from the gun collector and put down one of my favorite pistols as collateral. He said he would keep my gun in his safe until I paid him back. All was fine until this morning when I got a call from his girlfriend...he was dealing drugs and his house was raided. All his guns and mine were seized by the police. I have already been to the jail and was told I have to wait till after the case is closed and they might destroy my gun. I have left a message with the detective who is working the case and I am still waiting for him to call. Is there anything else I can do?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistol packin momma View Post
    Hello, I have been lurking for a long time and have learned alot from this site. I finally decided to join and hope that someone has some advice for me. Awhile back I met a friend of a friend who is a gun collector. Times have been tough and two weeks ago I needed money to pay my rent. I borrowed money from the gun collector and put down one of my favorite pistols as collateral. He said he would keep my gun in his safe until I paid him back. All was fine until this morning when I got a call from his girlfriend...he was dealing drugs and his house was raided. All his guns and mine were seized by the police. I have already been to the jail and was told I have to wait till after the case is closed and they might destroy my gun. I have left a message with the detective who is working the case and I am still waiting for him to call. Is there anything else I can do?
    Welcome to the forum. Depending on what paperwork you have you might get your gun back after it's all over... if you dont have serial number and proof of the deal you might never see it again.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    You can file a motion in whatever court the case is to be heard in - at least you need to alert the court and the Commonwealth's Attorney that the guns are yours (identify them carefully), because you have due process rights as an innocent third party. If they destroy or keep the guns after having notice of that without having given you a full and fair hearing, you could file suit for damages. I'd do all that, but if it were me, I'd also file a suit in the Circuit Court in equity to enjoin any action likely to cause damage to the firearms, and for detinue (either give'em back or give me their value in cash). Be prepared to give competent evidence of the value of the guns. I'd put that one on the motions docket for an emergency injunction to keep them from doing anything bad to the guns pendente lite (pending a full trial). You might need a lawyer. I'd call Larry Dumville in Va. Beach. Tell him I told you.

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    Sorry to hear about your luck

    I see you're posting from VA Beach. Years ago when I lived there, I was in a similar situation. My POS brother-in-law stole my pistol. I didn't even notice it was missing until we learned that he had been arrested for public intoxication and carrying a concealed weapon without a permit.

    A friend of mine who was an officer with VBPD told me that unless I could document that the pistol was mine, it would be destroyed after the case was concluded. I realized at that time I didn't even know the serial number of the pistol.

    Lessons learned: Invest in a safe, record all serial numbers, take pictures of inventory, keep all sales / transfer receipts, and most of all - don't let dirt-bag relatives live with you!

    On the brighter side, I eventually came to own his pick-up truck after he could not repay money that we loaned him.

    [strike personal, non-qualified advice after reading "User's" professionally qualified advice :-) Thanks User! ]
    Last edited by Armed; 10-28-2010 at 07:14 PM.

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    Cool

    Luckily, I have everything in order. I have the box it came in with the serial # on it, two receipts, and pictures.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistol packin momma View Post
    Hello, I have been lurking for a long time and have learned alot from this site. I finally decided to join and hope that someone has some advice for me. Awhile back I met a friend of a friend who is a gun collector. Times have been tough and two weeks ago I needed money to pay my rent. I borrowed money from the gun collector and put down one of my favorite pistols as collateral. He said he would keep my gun in his safe until I paid him back. All was fine until this morning when I got a call from his girlfriend...he was dealing drugs and his house was raided. All his guns and mine were seized by the police. I have already been to the jail and was told I have to wait till after the case is closed and they might destroy my gun. I have left a message with the detective who is working the case and I am still waiting for him to call. Is there anything else I can do?
    IANAL, and you have seen some good advice here from those who are...

    Just curious, maybe they can answer this as well...

    What's the difference between borrowing money with the gun as collateral, and selling it to him for the money?

    I'm just thinking, if you don't repay the loan, then why would you be entitled to resume possession of the collateral for it?

    Again, not trying to wish your efforts ill-will, just wondering what the police might think and say from that angle.

    TFred

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    IANAL, and you have seen some good advice here from those who are...

    Just curious, maybe they can answer this as well...

    What's the difference between borrowing money with the gun as collateral, and selling it to him for the money?

    I'm just thinking, if you don't repay the loan, then why would you be entitled to resume possession of the collateral for it?

    Again, not trying to wish your efforts ill-will, just wondering what the police might think and say from that angle.

    TFred

    The difference between borrowing money with the gun as collateral and selling the gun? When you hock (or pawn) something, you don't necessarily get or even ask for close to the actual value of the collateral. You could pawn a gun for $600 cash even though the gun is worth $1,200. You then pay back the $600, plus interest, and get your collateral back. If you don't pay back the loan and the interest in the allotted time, then the pawnbroker can keep or sell it to recoup his $600 plus interest, plus any extra.

    I agree, TFred, she ought to remain obligated to repay the debt or forfeit the property.

    So the questions I'd ask "from that angle" are: Why pawn a gun to a drug dealer when there are pawn shops that do this on the up-and-up? Did he offer a better rate, or no interest rate at all? If he didn't stand to gain from the deal, what incentive did he have? Was this gun used as collateral to front drugs?

    I'm not making accusations; I don't know her from Adam and could not care any less even if it was a shady deal. My point is that someone that is standing between her and that gun right now is going to wonder these things and more.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Sure hope that the OP's acquaintance was not a disallowed person when the gun was transferred to his possession. If so, might there not be other problems?
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-29-2010 at 08:40 AM. Reason: fixed
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by virginiatuck View Post
    The difference between borrowing money with the gun as collateral and selling the gun? When you hock (or pawn) something, you don't necessarily get or even ask for close to the actual value of the collateral. You could pawn a gun for $600 cash even though the gun is worth $1,200. You then pay back the $600, plus interest, and get your collateral back. If you don't pay back the loan and the interest in the allotted time, then the pawnbroker can keep or sell it to recoup his $600 plus interest, plus any extra.

    I agree, TFred, she ought to remain obligated to repay the debt or forfeit the property.

    So the questions I'd ask "from that angle" are: Why pawn a gun to a drug dealer when there are pawn shops that do this on the up-and-up? Did he offer a better rate, or no interest rate at all? If he didn't stand to gain from the deal, what incentive did he have? Was this gun used as collateral to front drugs?

    I'm not making accusations; I don't know her from Adam and could not care any less even if it was a shady deal. My point is that someone that is standing between her and that gun right now is going to wonder these things and more.
    I agree, the debt will be repaid to his girlfriend, it looks like he will be away for a long time. I pawned the gun to him because there was no interest, got more cash than any pawn shop would have offered, and if I was'nt able to repay for awhile (I thought) I would not have to worry about losing it. If I knew he sold drugs I would have never parted with a gun I wanted back. I am sure the detective will ask all these questions and more whenever he calls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by virginiatuck View Post
    The difference between borrowing money with the gun as collateral and selling the gun? When you hock (or pawn) something, you don't necessarily get or even ask for close to the actual value of the collateral. You could pawn a gun for $600 cash even though the gun is worth $1,200. You then pay back the $600, plus interest, and get your collateral back. If you don't pay back the loan and the interest in the allotted time, then the pawnbroker can keep or sell it to recoup his $600 plus interest, plus any extra.
    I have pawned several other items recently, you are lucky if you can get a third of somethings value! These days pawn shops are hurting and cannot move most of the stuff they have so they have no incentive to even give you half.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Sure hope that the OP's acquaintance was not a disallowed person when the gun was transferred to his possession. If so, might there not be other problems?
    He WAS a legal gun owner, has his CHP and recently applied for a ATF license.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Sure hope that the OP's acquaintance was not a disallowed person when the gun was transferred to his possession. If so, might there not be other problems?
    Quote Originally Posted by pistol packin momma View Post
    He WAS a legal gun owner, has his CHP and recently applied for a ATF license.


    Presuming that he is guilty as charged, this just proves you can't cure stupidity.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post


    Presuming that he is guilty as charged,
    Exactly Grape.
    The OP has gotten great information, especially from User...but we need to remember that he is innocent until proven guilty.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post


    Presuming that he is guilty as charged, this just proves you can't cure stupidity.
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Exactly Grape.
    The OP has gotten great information, especially from User...but we need to remember that he is innocent until proven guilty.
    Quote Originally Posted by pistol packin momma View Post
    Slowly finding out more information, was told he also owned at least one sawed off shot gun, some hand grenades, and possibly a M16. Don't know how accurate my source is or how much time he would get for those, but if all that is true I do not think he will see daylight for a very long time.
    Just another normal day at the office - representing the typical CHP holder. <sarcasm off>

    Surprised that the media isn't running this into the ground.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    You can file a motion in whatever court the case is to be heard in - at least you need to alert the court and the Commonwealth's Attorney that the guns are yours (identify them carefully), because you have due process rights as an innocent third party. If they destroy or keep the guns after having notice of that without having given you a full and fair hearing, you could file suit for damages. I'd do all that, but if it were me, I'd also file a suit in the Circuit Court in equity to enjoin any action likely to cause damage to the firearms, and for detinue (either give'em back or give me their value in cash). Be prepared to give competent evidence of the value of the guns. I'd put that one on the motions docket for an emergency injunction to keep them from doing anything bad to the guns pendente lite (pending a full trial). You might need a lawyer. I'd call Larry Dumville in Va. Beach. Tell him I told you.
    Thank you, that is good information!

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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    I would follow users advice and seek out that attorney. ASAP.

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    I will have to see what I can do on my own. If I could afford a lawyer I would have never gotten myself into this situation. I have left three messages with the detective who is working the case. I have been calling once a day, on Monday I will start calling more often and see if I can go over his head if I have not heard back from him.
    A lawyer is not an option for me, I am too busy trying to keep a roof over my kids head. Everything that I owned of any value has been sold or pawned, except for my second vehicle. Now rent is about to be due again, anyone interested in a minivan?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistol packin momma View Post
    I will have to see what I can do on my own. If I could afford a lawyer I would have never gotten myself into this situation. I have left three messages with the detective who is working the case. I have been calling once a day, on Monday I will start calling more often and see if I can go over his head if I have not heard back from him.
    A lawyer is not an option for me, I am too busy trying to keep a roof over my kids head. Everything that I owned of any value has been sold or pawned, except for my second vehicle. Now rent is about to be due again, anyone interested in a minivan?
    You might be able to do some of User's suggestions (see post #3) yourself. Talking to an attorney, first consultation, is generally no charge. If you do nothing, that is likely what you will get.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You might be able to do some of User's suggestions (see post #3) yourself. Talking to an attorney, first consultation, is generally no charge. If you do nothing, that is likely what you will get.
    I never said I would do nothing, I just cannot afford a lawyer. I will do all the other things User suggested, that info will be very helpful. Thanks again User! Please don't bill me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pistol packin momma View Post
    I will have to see what I can do on my own. If I could afford a lawyer I would have never gotten myself into this situation. I have left three messages with the detective who is working the case. I have been calling once a day, on Monday I will start calling more often and see if I can go over his head if I have not heard back from him.
    A lawyer is not an option for me, I am too busy trying to keep a roof over my kids head. Everything that I owned of any value has been sold or pawned, except for my second vehicle. Now rent is about to be due again, anyone interested in a minivan?
    You may have better luck contacting the Commonwealth Attorney's office that is handling the case. The detective may have physically seized your weapon, but the C.A.'s office does the actual legal aspect regarding seizures. Although, the detective may be able to point you towards which attorney is handling the case. A lot of times, officers won't return calls regarding cases because it might jeopardize a case. My guess is that you might be able to get your gun back as long as you show overwhelming proof it is yours and only after the court's final disposition regarding the drug dealer's case. Also, they might attempt to sell it back to you, which is very common for seized property. Hope this helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NovaCop10 View Post
    You may have better luck contacting the Commonwealth Attorney's office that is handling the case. The detective may have physically seized your weapon, but the C.A.'s office does the actual legal aspect regarding seizures. Although, the detective may be able to point you towards which attorney is handling the case. A lot of times, officers won't return calls regarding cases because it might jeopardize a case. My guess is that you might be able to get your gun back as long as you show overwhelming proof it is yours and only after the court's final disposition regarding the drug dealer's case. Also, they might attempt to sell it back to you, which is very common for seized property. Hope this helps.
    Thank You, I will contact the CA.
    Sell it back to me? They can do that?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistol packin momma View Post
    Thank You, I will contact the CA.
    Sell it back to me? They can do that?
    I'm guessing the answer to that is going to come down to whether these particular LEOs are as upright and law-abiding as NovaCop like to think all LEOs are, or if they are as corrupt and mean-spirited as a few of the others who like to bash LEOs around here say they are.

    Perhaps this incident will be a referendum on LEO professional behavior...

    TFred

    ETA: Sadly, the fact that we even have to wonder about this speaks louder than many of us would like to admit.
    Last edited by TFred; 10-31-2010 at 10:39 AM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I'm guessing the answer to that is going to come down to whether these particular LEOs are as upright and law-abiding as NovaCop like to think all LEOs are, or if they are as corrupt and mean-spirited as a few of the others who like to bash LEOs around here say they are.

    Perhaps this incident will be a referendum on LEO professional behavior...

    TFred
    I really hate to agree with anything Novacop says but, I suppose it's possible that the court could consider the money owed, theirs as an asset forfeiture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I really hate to agree with anything Novacop says but, I suppose it's possible that the court could consider the money owed, theirs as an asset forfeiture.
    But if the OP's story is true, the gun was never the property of the accused. How can possession of someone else's property make it subject to forfeiture for the holder's crimes?

    TFred

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    But if the OP's story is true, the gun was never the property of the accused. How can possession of someone else's property make it subject to forfeiture for the holder's crimes?

    TFred
    The money he loaned was his property. The court could consider the cash Ill Gotten Gains and would have been seized as an asset if he still had it.

    Courts are very creative sometimes.

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