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Thread: OT: Hello from Washington State!

  1. #1
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    OT: Hello from Washington State!

    Hi everyone, just wanted to introduce myself. I am looking to move out to NH about a year from now and would like to know what the law is for OCing and CCing. I've visited out there many times due to family being out there, and I gotta say, I LOVE the freedoms one have there. Anyways hope to talk on here some more when I am getting ready for the move.

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    Welcome. I'll be making the move from Texas, hopefully within the year.

    Here are the basics of NH gun law:
    -Unlicensed open carry on foot is legal.
    -To carry a handgun that is both loaded and concealed, you must have a license. The license costs $10 for 5 years, is must-issue, and is issued by your town government (usually the police department). They must issue within 14 days of the application.
    -To carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle, you must have a license. Open/concealed don't matter.
    -No loaded long guns in vehicles (this is a hunting law, and people are trying to change it).
    -There is total statewide preemption. Only the state legislature can regulate possession, carry and discharge.
    -Here's the list of places off limits to carry: courtrooms. That's it, just courtrooms. And they have to store your gun for you while you're inside.

    Of course, private property owners can tell you to leave. You can be charged with trespass if you refuse, but there's no enhanced penalty for carrying a gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Welcome. I'll be making the move from Texas, hopefully within the year.

    Here are the basics of NH gun law:
    -Unlicensed open carry on foot is legal.
    -To carry a handgun that is both loaded and concealed, you must have a license. The license costs $10 for 5 years, is must-issue, and is issued by your town government (usually the police department). They must issue within 14 days of the application.
    -To carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle, you must have a license. Open/concealed don't matter.
    -No loaded long guns in vehicles (this is a hunting law, and people are trying to change it).
    -There is total statewide preemption. Only the state legislature can regulate possession, carry and discharge.
    -Here's the list of places off limits to carry: courtrooms. That's it, just courtrooms. And they have to store your gun for you while you're inside.

    Of course, private property owners can tell you to leave. You can be charged with trespass if you refuse, but there's no enhanced penalty for carrying a gun.
    For the most part the information given is right but not all of it. A NH resident permit is only good for 4 years not 5 as stated! You can not carry your firearms in police irrigation rooms as well. The state has preemption on possession,usage,taxation and ammunition and a few other things. The state law still allows City's/Town's to pass zoning codes as to where gun stores can be. They also allow local City's/Town's to set their own ordinances pertaining to the discharging of firearms with in city/town limits. Most city's/town's will fine you and or arrest you for discharging a firearm with in city/town limits. You also can no longer carry open or concealed at the state house and surrounding buildings. As covered under court rooms you can not carry in the judges chambers or jury deliberation rooms. Your best bet would be to call the state police and ask them everything you want to know. Or ask a local who lives this everyday.
    Last edited by NewHampshireNative2005; 10-29-2010 at 06:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshireNative2005 View Post
    For the most part the information given is right but not all of it. A NH resident permit is only good for 4 years not 5 as stated!
    Correct, but if you apply right after your birthday, you'll get almost 5 years out of the initial license.


    You can not carry your firearms in police irrigation rooms as well.
    Irrigation? LOL

    It's not illegal to carry there. They just won't let you into the secure area with a gun. Unless you're under arrest, you can just decline to go past that point. It would be your choice to make that a line in the sand. Personally, I'd stand right there and let them sort out their own conundrum.


    The state has preemption on possession,usage,taxation and ammunition and a few other things. The state law still allows City's/Town's to pass zoning codes as to where gun stores can be. They also allow local City's/Town's to set their own ordinances pertaining to the discharging of firearms with in city/town limits.
    Zoning, yes. I don't think so on discharging, unless there's an RSA I've missed.

    159:26 Firearms and Ammunition; Authority of the State.
    I. To the extent consistent with federal law, the state of New Hampshire shall have authority and jurisdiction over the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearms components, ammunition, or firearms supplies in the state. Except as otherwise specifically provided by statute, no ordinance or regulation of a political subdivision may regulate the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearms components, ammunition, or firearms supplies in the state. Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting a political subdivision's right to adopt zoning ordinances for the purpose of regulating firearms businesses in the same manner as other businesses or to take any action allowed under RSA 207:59.
    II. Upon the effective date of this section, all municipal ordinances and regulations not authorized under paragraph I relative to the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearm components, ammunition, or firearms supplies shall be null and void.


    The state already regulates discharge of firearms in the compact portion of a town, in RSA 644:13. That statute allows police chiefs to give written permission to allowing shooting in the defined area. I don't see any authority to further restrict it.

    But please, if I'm wrong, I want to know, so I welcome a cite to the law allowing local ordinances of discharge.


    Most city's/town's will fine you and or arrest you for discharging a firearm with in city/town limits.
    With a couple of tiny exceptions (that are almost unreachable), all hunting and shooting takes place within city/town limits.


    You also can no longer carry open or concealed at the state house and surrounding buildings.
    That's a rule, not a law. It's only enforceable by a trespass citation (which would be questionable, since the GC has to be open to the public). You'll get noticed if you're OCing, but it's still legal to CC unless you're told to leave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Correct, but if you apply right after your birthday, you'll get almost 5 years out of the initial license.



    Irrigation? LOL

    It's not illegal to carry there. They just won't let you into the secure area with a gun. Unless you're under arrest, you can just decline to go past that point. It would be your choice to make that a line in the sand. Personally, I'd stand right there and let them sort out their own conundrum.



    Zoning, yes. I don't think so on discharging, unless there's an RSA I've missed.

    159:26 Firearms and Ammunition; Authority of the State. –
    I. To the extent consistent with federal law, the state of New Hampshire shall have authority and jurisdiction over the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearms components, ammunition, or firearms supplies in the state. Except as otherwise specifically provided by statute, no ordinance or regulation of a political subdivision may regulate the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearms components, ammunition, or firearms supplies in the state. Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting a political subdivision's right to adopt zoning ordinances for the purpose of regulating firearms businesses in the same manner as other businesses or to take any action allowed under RSA 207:59.
    II. Upon the effective date of this section, all municipal ordinances and regulations not authorized under paragraph I relative to the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearm components, ammunition, or firearms supplies shall be null and void.


    The state already regulates discharge of firearms in the compact portion of a town, in RSA 644:13. That statute allows police chiefs to give written permission to allowing shooting in the defined area. I don't see any authority to further restrict it.

    But please, if I'm wrong, I want to know, so I welcome a cite to the law allowing local ordinances of discharge.



    With a couple of tiny exceptions (that are almost unreachable), all hunting and shooting takes place within city/town limits.



    That's a rule, not a law. It's only enforceable by a trespass citation (which would be questionable, since the GC has to be open to the public). You'll get noticed if you're OCing, but it's still legal to CC unless you're told to leave.
    You can sit here and argue with me about this RSA and that RSA but in till you come to this state and live under the laws you really have no idea other then what you read. As i stated you can not discharge a firearm with in the urban compact areas of city's and town's. They also have noise ordinance's that they will enforce outside of the urban compact area's. Such was the case in my city the police had a outdoor shooting range and residents who lived close by complained to the city and they shut down the range. As for the integration room most police departments will place you in one to take your complaint that you wish to file.
    Last edited by NewHampshireNative2005; 10-30-2010 at 09:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshireNative2005 View Post
    You can sit here and argue with me about this RSA and that RSA but in till you come to this state and live under the laws you really have no idea other then what you read.
    I know the whole state is divided into towns and cities, so your contention about it being illegal to discharge firearms within town or city limits is plainly incorrect.

    As i stated you can not discharge a firearm with in the urban compact areas of city's and town's.
    No, that's not what you said, that's what I said. And I cited the state law that makes it illegal to shoot in compact areas; no local ordinance is needed, would be superfluous, and would violate preemption.

    What you said was:
    Most city's/town's will fine you and or arrest you for discharging a firearm with in city/town limits.
    Sure they will, in the compact portion, because that violates state law. But almost every deer, moose, turkey, bear, grouse, goose, rabbit, or any other game or nuisance animal that is killed by a hunter is shot inside city/town limits.

    We're answering a question from a guy coming from a rural western state, who has probably never seen a state with city/town boundaries drawn like NH. Outside New England, it's very unusual to have all towns directly border each other, with no such thing as "outside city limits". Almost everywhere else, there are miles of unincorporated land that is part of the county, but not part of any municipality.


    As for the integration room most police departments will place you in one to take your complaint that you wish to file.
    The word you're looking for is "interrogation". That auto-correction can be a bitch, eh?

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    tannerwaterbury, this should help illustrate what I'm talking about:



    That's NH, with a map of Merrimack County, and Concord highlighted. There are 27 cities and towns in Merrimack County, and there's no place in the county that isn't within the limits of one of those 27. But if you look at a road map or satellite view, you will see that most of the county is "in the country"... except legally, it's not. It's all inside city or town limits.

    The same is true of the whole state, with the exception of a few (25) unincorporated areas. Those are almost all in Cos County, and are mostly uninhabited and inaccessible. The 2000 census reported only 175 people living in unincorporated areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    I know the whole state is divided into towns and cities, so your contention about it being illegal to discharge firearms within town or city limits is plainly incorrect.


    No, that's not what you said, that's what I said. And I cited the state law that makes it illegal to shoot in compact areas; no local ordinance is needed, would be superfluous, and would violate preemption.

    What you said was:


    Sure they will, in the compact portion, because that violates state law. But almost every deer, moose, turkey, bear, grouse, goose, rabbit, or any other game or nuisance animal that is killed by a hunter is shot inside city/town limits.

    We're answering a question from a guy coming from a rural western state, who has probably never seen a state with city/town boundaries drawn like NH. Outside New England, it's very unusual to have all towns directly border each other, with no such thing as "outside city limits". Almost everywhere else, there are miles of unincorporated land that is part of the county, but not part of any municipality.



    The word you're looking for is "interrogation". That auto-correction can be a bitch, eh?


    LOL. Your OBVIOUSLY not from around here! Have you ever even BEEN to NH? To say that most game that is killed by hunter is done so inside town/city limits is absolutely ridiculous, and no where NEAR true. And besides here "town limits" to us is like the actual town, main st, houses, business etc. Compact part of town. There's a lot of woods up here that sure as hell ain't "town/city" lol.

    Now I'm not sure about discharging within town/city zones, I think that only really pertains to the big cities down south (Concord, Manchester, etc). Where I am you just need to be (for hunting purposes) 100 feet away from a house and not shooting in an unsafe direction.

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    Yes, I have been to NH, I have dozens of friends there (quite a few of them in Grafton County), and I've been planning to move for the last five years, and will be making the move in 2011.

    And, I apparently know more about NH geography and political boundaries than you do. Geeze, just look at a damn map, why dontcha? Then you tell me where you go hunting that is not inside town or city limits.

    I know what you mean about the compact portion, the village area, etc. (what it's called depends on what town you're in). But even outside the built-up part of town, you're still in the town. There are only about 1,700 people in the village of Enfield, but the other 3,000 all live in the town of Enfield too.

    Drive as far out of the village as you want, you're still in the Town of Enfield until you cross into the Town of Canaan, Town of Grafton, City of Lebanon, or the Town of Grantham. There's no such thing as "between towns"; you're either in one, or another.

    I thought NH had a better school system than that. Are you sure you're a native?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Yes, I have been to NH, I have dozens of friends there (quite a few of them in Grafton County), and I've been planning to move for the last five years, and will be making the move in 2011.

    And, I apparently know more about NH geography and political boundaries than you do. Geeze, just look at a damn map, why dontcha? Then you tell me where you go hunting that is not inside town or city limits.

    I know what you mean about the compact portion, the village area, etc. (what it's called depends on what town you're in). But even outside the built-up part of town, you're still in the town. There are only about 1,700 people in the village of Enfield, but the other 3,000 all live in the town of Enfield too.

    Drive as far out of the village as you want, you're still in the Town of Enfield until you cross into the Town of Canaan, Town of Grafton, City of Lebanon, or the Town of Grantham. There's no such thing as "between towns"; you're either in one, or another.

    I thought NH had a better school system than that. Are you sure you're a native?
    Now the insults come out you really like to show how much of a ***** you are don't you? All the information your basing stuff off is from the bloody internet enough said. Half the right information you can only get by calling the town/city as over half of them do not have websites. Read all you want off Wikipedia that still does not mean it's right as anyone can add/delete information. Till you come here and learn the ways of the state/local's you will never have any weight! Fact of the matter remains police can and will arrest you for anything they please! I love how you feel like some kind of expert on our state/our towns/city's while you sit in your state searching the internet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Yes, I have been to NH, I have dozens of friends there (quite a few of them in Grafton County), and I've been planning to move for the last five years, and will be making the move in 2011.

    And, I apparently know more about NH geography and political boundaries than you do. Geeze, just look at a damn map, why dontcha? Then you tell me where you go hunting that is not inside town or city limits.

    I know what you mean about the compact portion, the village area, etc. (what it's called depends on what town you're in). But even outside the built-up part of town, you're still in the town. There are only about 1,700 people in the village of Enfield, but the other 3,000 all live in the town of Enfield too.

    Drive as far out of the village as you want, you're still in the Town of Enfield until you cross into the Town of Canaan, Town of Grafton, City of Lebanon, or the Town of Grantham. There's no such thing as "between towns"; you're either in one, or another.

    I thought NH had a better school system than that. Are you sure you're a native?
    Lol wow. Now let's start smashing someones education! Woohoo! Get's us real far don't it? I have looked at a map, and if you read what I actually wrote *ahem wanna talk lacking of education* I stated that to us "Town" is the compact part. Jeez. Get a grip man, or rather, take your panties out of your ass crack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshireNative2005 View Post
    Now the insults come out you really like to show how much of a ***** you are don't you? All the information your basing stuff off is from the bloody internet enough said. Half the right information you can only get by calling the town/city as over half of them do not have websites. Read all you want off Wikipedia that still does not mean it's right as anyone can add/delete information. Till you come here and learn the ways of the state/local's you will never have any weight! Fact of the matter remains police can and will arrest you for anything they please! I love how you feel like some kind of expert on our state/our towns/city's while you sit in your state searching the internet.

    Well said man

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilRedMeanie View Post
    I stated that to us "Town" is the compact part. Jeez.
    But to the law, it's not just the compact part, it's the whole town.

    This started because I tried to clarify to a visitor from Washington that there's really no such thing as "outside town/city limits" in NH, except for a few unincorporated places in very remote areas. Then you tried to "school" me about the law without knowing the law yourself. And you don't even know where you town limits are, and claimed that shooting isn't allowed within town limits, and game isn't taken inside town limits. And you keep changing what you claim you said.

    Well, bubba, it's all right there in the thread above. You're giving bogus advice, and countering factual information (cites to the law, pictures of maps) with "logic" of, "You're not from around here, you don't know what it's like."

    BTW, Wikipedia is not my preferred source. I like the official website of the NH state government.

    http://www.nh.gov/nhes/elmi/htmlprof...fs/enfield.pdf

    See the yellow square? It's all Enfield. Doesn't matter if you're in the compact part or not, if you go out in the country miles from a house and shoot targets or shoot game, you're still in the town limits of Enfield.

    Now go ahead, tell me again how I'm wrong and nobody shoots or hunts in the town limits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshireNative2005 View Post
    All the information your basing stuff off is from the bloody internet enough said. Half the right information you can only get by calling the town/city as over half of them do not have websites.
    Okay, so tell me where I'm wrong. Point by point, cite the law. That's what I've already done. Feel free to point to what I said that is factually incorrect, and show why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    But to the law, it's not just the compact part, it's the whole town.

    This started because I tried to clarify to a visitor from Washington that there's really no such thing as "outside town/city limits" in NH, except for a few unincorporated places in very remote areas. Then you tried to "school" me about the law without knowing the law yourself. And you don't even know where you town limits are, and claimed that shooting isn't allowed within town limits, and game isn't taken inside town limits. And you keep changing what you claim you said.

    Well, bubba, it's all right there in the thread above. You're giving bogus advice, and countering factual information (cites to the law, pictures of maps) with "logic" of, "You're not from around here, you don't know what it's like."

    BTW, Wikipedia is not my preferred source. I like the official website of the NH state government.

    http://www.nh.gov/nhes/elmi/htmlprof...fs/enfield.pdf

    See the yellow square? It's all Enfield. Doesn't matter if you're in the compact part or not, if you go out in the country miles from a house and shoot targets or shoot game, you're still in the town limits of Enfield.

    Now go ahead, tell me again how I'm wrong and nobody shoots or hunts in the town limits.

    Well, smarty pants. Hate to tell you, but EVERYWHERE is like that. Not just NH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Okay, so tell me where I'm wrong. Point by point, cite the law. That's what I've already done. Feel free to point to what I said that is factually incorrect, and show why.
    Boy, with an attitude like that, if you plan on moving here, it isn't going to take long for you to get lost in the woods.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilRedMeanie View Post
    Well, smarty pants. Hate to tell you, but EVERYWHERE is like that. Not just NH.
    No it's not. Once you get out of the northeastern U.S., towns and cities are more like islands within the county. You can leave one town and drive for miles until the next one. Between towns is unincorporated territory that is part of the county, but isn't part of any municipality.

    Someone from Washington would be far more familiar with that system, than the way NH is divided up. In NH, towns are more like small counties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nhsig220 View Post
    Boy, with an attitude like that, if you plan on moving here, it isn't going to take long for you to get lost in the woods.
    Asking to be shown the truth leads to being lost? Okay...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    No it's not. Once you get out of the northeastern U.S., towns and cities are more like islands within the county. You can leave one town and drive for miles until the next one. Between towns is unincorporated territory that is part of the county, but isn't part of any municipality.

    Someone from Washington would be far more familiar with that system, than the way NH is divided up. In NH, towns are more like small counties.

    Um. Right. Now YOUR turn to CITE things. Your telling me there's places in the United States that are just "blank". No name of a town/city or anything? I call ********.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilRedMeanie View Post
    Um. Right. Now YOUR turn to CITE things. Your telling me there's places in the United States that are just "blank". No name of a town/city or anything? I call ********.
    Yes. And this is the way it is in the vast majority of the country. For people who live "outside of town", that doesn't just mean outside the compact area, it means completely outside the town limits. For most American who live "in the country", the county is their first level of government.

    Sorry if you don't like Wikipedia, but there's a good summary there.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unincor...#United_States

    I can cite for you the figures for my hometown in Polk County, Arkansas. There are six incorporated municipalities in the county. The total area within all six city limits (combined) is 21 square miles, versus 862 square miles for the entire county. And what's within city limits isn't just "compact"; some of it is pretty darn rural.

    The total population of the six municipalities is less than 8,000; the county population is over 20,000. Those 12,000 people don't live inside any city or town. Their first level of government is the county. They don't vote for a mayor or council or board, they vote for the sheriff, county judge, and justice of the peace. Those offices are the local government for them.

    Here's the map. The gray or red areas are city limits (every municipality in Arkansas is a "city", no matter how small). All that white? Yeah, that's the part of the county with no city/town/municipal government.




    Want another example from a completely different state? My wife is originally from Dubuque. Like all midwestern counties, Dubuque County is pretty large, with one metro area and a few small towns. The 21 municipalities take up 44.5 square miles of land, versus 617 square miles for the entire county. Total town population is 73,647, versus 92,359 for the county. Those 9,000 people who live "in the country" don't have any municipal government; they vote for sheriff, and the three at-large members of the county board of supervisors. That is their only local government.

    Here's another map, same as above, but for Dubuque County Iowa:


    This is how it is in the United States outside New England, New Jersey, and Delaware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Yes. And this is the way it is in the vast majority of the country. For people who live "outside of town", that doesn't just mean outside the compact area, it means completely outside the town limits. For most American who live "in the country", the county is their first level of government.

    Sorry if you don't like Wikipedia, but there's a good summary there.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unincor...#United_States

    I can cite for you the figures for my hometown in Polk County, Arkansas. There are six incorporated municipalities in the county. The total area within all six city limits (combined) is 21 square miles, versus 862 square miles for the entire county. And what's within city limits isn't just "compact"; some of it is pretty darn rural.

    The total population of the six municipalities is less than 8,000; the county population is over 20,000. Those 12,000 people don't live inside any city or town. Their first level of government is the county. They don't vote for a mayor or council or board, they vote for the sheriff, county judge, and justice of the peace. Those offices are the local government for them.

    Here's the map. The gray or red areas are city limits (every municipality in Arkansas is a "city", no matter how small). All that white? Yeah, that's the part of the county with no city/town/municipal government.




    Want another example from a completely different state? My wife is originally from Dubuque. Like all midwestern counties, Dubuque County is pretty large, with one metro area and a few small towns. The 21 municipalities take up 44.5 square miles of land, versus 617 square miles for the entire county. Total town population is 73,647, versus 92,359 for the county. Those 9,000 people who live "in the country" don't have any municipal government; they vote for sheriff, and the three at-large members of the county board of supervisors. That is their only local government.

    Here's another map, same as above, but for Dubuque County Iowa:


    This is how it is in the United States outside New England, New Jersey, and Delaware.



    So when those people call up 911 and the operator asks them where they are, what do they say? "In the middle of ******* nowhere"?????? Lol..

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilRedMeanie View Post
    So when those people call up 911 and the operator asks them where they are, what do they say? "In the middle of ******* nowhere"?????? Lol..
    Pretty much.

    Actually, there has been a massive effort to assign exact street addresses to rural homes over the last 20 years, with the advent of 911 and Enhanced 911. When I was a kid, my address was (no kidding), "by the tree in the middle of the street". The one time we had to call the fire department (no such thing as 911 in the '70s, not there anyway), that was the address we used. And this was inside the city limits. Everyone in town knew where that was; for those from a town or two away, it was "turn west by the rock store, then go to the tree in the middle of the road".

    We got our mail at a P.O. Box, obviously. There were street names, but no house numbers. It's only the last 15 years that the house where I grew up got a street address, and my parents started getting home mail delivery.

    When it comes to giving addresses, it used to be based on one of two things: school district, or mail delivery. With massive school consolidation, kids from two, three, or even more towns all go to the same school now, but the Post Office assigns addresses based on which town's post office handles the delivery. So, someone who doesn't live inside a town will still have an address of "123 County Road 456, Anytown, Arkansas". Before that, it was "Take the old highway, turn left at the old Parsons farm, turn right by the chicken house..."

    Living so close to the state line now, I have a co-worker whose physical residence in Arkansas, but his mailing address is Texas (because his mail box is across the road, in Texas). He has a phone number in one Arkansas town, but lives in a different town's school district. And because of his mailing address, his cell phone has a Texas area code. He has one helluva time getting the right agency to respond when he calls 911 about the meth lab down the road.

    This really is the way it is in most of America: you can have a mailing address from a town you don't live in. And that was my only point, trying to make it clear to someone from a western state that New England is very different in that regard.
    Last edited by KBCraig; 11-07-2010 at 11:41 PM.

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