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Thread: Open carry at my place of business

  1. #1
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    Open carry at my place of business

    A fayette County deputy showed up at my business today and say that one of my customers was intimidated because I was open carrying a gun and it scared him. The story goes that he contacted the one of my companies that I do business with and they called the sheriffs department. Officer asked for my Foid which i presented and he ran it to see it is was valid. It was of course, and he handed me back my card and sorry I bothered you. they think is I haven't open carried in three weeks.

  2. #2
    Regular Member TyGuy's Avatar
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    Do you own the business or have permission from the owner to OC?

  3. #3
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    Not critisizing, But If this is you shop/business what right does ANY COP have to ask for your "PAPERS" ? Sorry, but at this point That was me, I would have told him that it is my shop, I didn't call you, Now Screw! Yes I would have used those words. Now if the Officer came over and made small talk, short of asking for "PAPERS" , No problem. Just My rant, I am tired of COPS of any kind over stepping thier bounds. I am a retired COP and in 29+ years if there was no violation of law I never asked to check the Firearm, Unless it was during Waterfowl season and checking for magazine capacity and type of shot.

  4. #4
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Foid act requirement

    Illinois requires you to have in your possession an FOID card whenever you are in possession of a firearm or ammunition. Peace officers have the authority to demand you produce it if you are in possession of a firearm. The statute does not provide exemption if you are on your own land or business. In Illinois possession does not always require the firearm or FOID card to be on your person just under your immediate control.

    Your papers please!

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    The illinois Foid act says that you are required to present the card to any law enforcement officer when requested. The card requirement may be ruled unconstitutional one of these days but for right now you are required to pay 10 dollars for a 10 year permit to own, have on your person any firearm or to purchase ammo. Illinois also says that a pellet rifle over .18 caliber or over 700 fps is a firearm. Illinois cannot prohibit the purchase but can prevent procession.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    I emailed through the ISP website & have yet to hear back on this...:
    How does a non-IL resident get a FOID, or are we allowed to carry without one?
    If I can't have a FOID, and can't carry without one, then IL is denying my Constitutional RKBA.

    It sucks that they've managed to force that on residents (which is one reason I wouldn't live there), even on their own property or in their own business.

  7. #7
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    You havent carried in 3 weeks cause of this? A LEO already checked you out and your good. No need to stop carring now. You never know, next week you could be robbed. Better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogeater f6 View Post
    You havent carried in 3 weeks cause of this? A LEO already checked you out and your good. No need to stop carring now. You never know, next week you could be robbed. Better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.
    The OP never stated that he wasn't OCing because of this. The way I read it is that he hadn't OCd the 3 weeks prior to seeing the LEO.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  9. #9
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    File you suite

    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    I emailed through the ISP website & have yet to hear back on this...:
    How does a non-IL resident get a FOID, or are we allowed to carry without one?
    If I can't have a FOID, and can't carry without one, then IL is denying my Constitutional RKBA.

    It sucks that they've managed to force that on residents (which is one reason I wouldn't live there), even on their own property or in their own business.
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/35931100/M...nken-Complaint
    http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index...howtopic=23486
    http://www.mountainstateslegal.org/l...s.cfm?Value=78


    Issue: Whether the Second Amendment prohibits a State from denying the right to keep and bear arms to nonresidents?

    Plaintiff: Ellen Mishaga

    Defendant: Jonathon E. Monken, Director of the Illinois Department of State Police

    Court: U.S. District Court for the Central District of Illinois, Springfield Division

    Status: On July 27, 2010, Ms. Mishaga filed her complaint.

    Next Event: Responsive pleading by Defendant

    History: Ellen Mishaga is an Ohio woman who travels frequently to the State of Illinois to visit and to reside in the home of friends; however, under Illinois law she is barred from purchasing or possessing a firearm or ammunition because she does not possess a Firearms Owner Identification Card (FOID). On April 30, 2010, and again on June 14, 2010, Ms. Mishaga’s application for a FOID was denied because, “No Illinois driver’s license number or state identification number [was] provided.”

    Illinois requires that individuals obtain a FOID before purchasing or possessing a firearm or ammunition in Illinois. Among the requirements for a FOID is that anyone over the age of eighteen provide an Illinois driver’s license number or Illinois Identification Card number. Nonresidents are exempt from most FOID Act restrictions when hunting, target shooting, or if “licensed or registered to possess a firearm in their resident state”; however, a nonresident without a FOID cannot otherwise possess a functional firearm.

    The Illinois Department of State Police must either approve or deny a FOID application within thirty days from receipt and must issue a FOID to persons who qualify. A $10 fee is required to defray administrative costs; a FOID is valid for ten years.

    Possessing firearms or ammunition without a FOID or with an expired FOID is a misdemeanor, although a second or subsequent violation is a felony. It is also a felony to possess firearms or ammunition if a person is ineligible for a FOID, even if a person possessed a FOID issued before he became ineligible. The FOID Act contains no self-defense exceptions.
    Last edited by lockman; 10-31-2010 at 06:34 PM. Reason: Heading should be: File your lawsuit

  10. #10
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYT View Post
    A fayette County deputy showed up at my business today and say that one of my customers was intimidated because I was open carrying a gun and it scared him. The story goes that he contacted the one of my companies that I do business with and they called the sheriffs department. Officer asked for my Foid which i presented and he ran it to see it is was valid. It was of course, and he handed me back my card and sorry I bothered you. they think is I haven't open carried in three weeks.
    different state, different reality. but none the less, responding to the title of the thread: OC, and CC at my place of buisness every day. no complaints to this date, other than out of the criminals.

  11. #11
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    The officer wouldn't tell me who is was, but I figure it was either someone up to no good or the guy I am sueing for non payment. I hadn't carried the three weeks prior to contact with the LEO mainly due to archery season and you can't carry a firearm while archery hunting or it is a wildlife violation. I am carrying while i type this.

  12. #12
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    I emailed through the ISP website & have yet to hear back on this...:
    How does a non-IL resident get a FOID, or are we allowed to carry without one?
    If I can't have a FOID, and can't carry without one, then IL is denying my Constitutional RKBA.

    It sucks that they've managed to force that on residents (which is one reason I wouldn't live there), even on their own property or in their own business.
    Have to be a resident to get it. There are exceptions built into the law for non-residents... one being a permit from another state.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    (430 ILCS 65/2) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑2)
    Sec. 2. Firearm Owner's Identification Card required; exceptions.
    (a) (1) No person may acquire or possess any firearm,

    stun gun, or taser within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.
    (2) No person may acquire or possess firearm
    ammunition within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.

    The provisions of this Section regarding the possession of firearms, firearm ammunition, stun guns, and tasers do not apply to:
    (1) United States Marshals, while engaged in the

    operation of their official duties;
    (2) Members of the Armed Forces of the United States

    or the National Guard, while engaged in the operation of their official duties;
    (3) Federal officials required to carry firearms,

    while engaged in the operation of their official duties;
    (4) Members of bona fide veterans organizations

    which receive firearms directly from the armed forces of the United States, while using the firearms for ceremonial purposes with blank ammunition;
    (5) Nonresident hunters during hunting season, with

    valid nonresident hunting licenses and while in an area where hunting is permitted; however, at all other times and in all other places these persons must have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case;
    (6) Those hunters exempt from obtaining a hunting

    license who are required to submit their Firearm Owner's Identification Card when hunting on Department of Natural Resources owned or managed sites;
    (7) Nonresidents while on a firing or shooting range

    recognized by the Department of State Police; however, these persons must at all other times and in all other places have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case;
    (8) Nonresidents while at a firearm showing or

    display recognized by the Department of State Police; however, at all other times and in all other places these persons must have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case;
    (9) Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and

    enclosed in a case;
    (10) Nonresidents who are currently licensed or

    registered to possess a firearm in their resident state;
    (11) Unemancipated minors while in the custody and

    immediate control of their parent or legal guardian or other person in loco parentis to the minor if the parent or legal guardian or other person in loco parentis to the minor has a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card;
    (12) Color guards of bona fide veterans

    organizations or members of bona fide American Legion bands while using firearms for ceremonial purposes with blank ammunition;
    (13) Nonresident hunters whose state of residence

    does not require them to be licensed or registered to possess a firearm and only during hunting season, with valid hunting licenses, while accompanied by, and using a firearm owned by, a person who possesses a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card and while in an area within a commercial club licensed under the Wildlife Code where hunting is permitted and controlled, but in no instance upon sites owned or managed by the Department of Natural Resources;
    (14) Resident hunters who are properly authorized to

    hunt and, while accompanied by a person who possesses a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card, hunt in an area within a commercial club licensed under the Wildlife Code where hunting is permitted and controlled;
    (15) A person who is otherwise eligible to obtain a

    Firearm Owner's Identification Card under this Act and is under the direct supervision of a holder of a Firearm Owner's Identification Card who is 21 years of age or older while the person is on a firing or shooting range or is a participant in a firearms safety and training course recognized by a law enforcement agency or a national, statewide shooting sports organization; and
    (16) Competitive shooting athletes whose competition

    firearms are sanctioned by the International Olympic Committee, the International Paralympic Committee, the International Shooting Sport Federation, or USA Shooting in connection with such athletes' training for and participation in shooting competitions at the 2016 Olympic and Paralympic Games and sanctioned test events leading up to the 2016 Olympic and Paralympic Games.
    (c) The provisions of this Section regarding the acquisition and possession of firearms, firearm ammunition, stun guns, and tasers do not apply to law enforcement officials of this or any other jurisdiction, while engaged in the operation of their official duties.
    (Source: P.A. 96‑7, eff. 4‑3‑09.)
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  13. #13
    McX
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    you can open carry at my place of business, and i wont even ask you for your foid card.
    seems like they should rename that to a forbid card anyway. dont mean crap in wisconsin!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    Illinois requires you to have in your possession an FOID card whenever you are in possession of a firearm or ammunition. Peace officers have the authority to demand you produce it if you are in possession of a firearm. The statute does not provide exemption if you are on your own land or business. In Illinois possession does not always require the firearm or FOID card to be on your person just under your immediate control.

    Your papers please!

    Please keep in mind that HB 182 has changed some things. The language is written into the section NOT in the exemptions requiring "a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card"

    This means if a person is on their own land, place of business or an invitee of such they are not required to own, posses, or produce a FOID card. Yes this means that our friends from other states may do the same when visiting IL

    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publ...?Name=096-0742

    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...ith-permission

    I am a business owner that carries five or six days a week on my property. I have had several officers inquire about me carrying, and all I have ever done is inform them that I am the business owner or property owner. Not once have I ever been ask for a FOID card under these conditions.

    To the OP, this type of situation is entirely your call. Are you required to show your FOID card while at your own business? No! However, if I had several customers in my store and a LEO was questioning the firearm, pushing for the FOID card I may present the card as to not create a scene in front of my customers. If I was alone in the store, or just some friends around, then I may refuse and see how far they want to take it.

    IANAL and this is only my opinion.

  15. #15
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYT View Post
    A fayette County deputy showed up at my business today and say that one of my customers was intimidated because I was open carrying a gun and it scared him. The story goes that he contacted the one of my companies that I do business with and they called the sheriffs department. Officer asked for my Foid which i presented and he ran it to see it is was valid. It was of course, and he handed me back my card and sorry I bothered you. they think is I haven't open carried in three weeks.
    How rude, on your property, your business.never had that happen here, but then again this isnt illinois. carry on!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    How rude, on your property, your business.never had that happen here, but then again this isnt illinois. carry on!
    From what I read Racine is kind of anti-open carry. Do you open carry there when not in your business?

    I was born in Racine,BTW. Been a long time since I lived near there, almost 46 years to be exact.

    Glad to hear you are exercising what rights you have in your own business.
    Last edited by junglebob; 02-23-2011 at 10:24 AM. Reason: spelling

  17. #17
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    New idea for signage on your privately owned businesses:

    Any and all persons who possess AND carry firearms for self-defense are welcome on this property. Those who do not carry or are forced to carry by local department policy are not welcome.
    Works for me....
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

  18. #18
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by junglebob View Post
    From what I read Racine is kind of anti-open carry. Do you open carry there when not in your business?

    I was born in Racine,BTW. Been a long time since I lived near there, almost 46 years to be exact.

    Glad to here you are excercising what rights you have in your own business.
    if i had money to go anywhere, i would carry, but mostly it's just unloaded and encased to and from work, damn i live a booring life, carry at work, sometimes get to go to an Open Carry event, i would more if i had money. i hear mixed reports about how friendly racine is. i'd rather not do it alone, i dont have bail money, plus when i'm out, and on the look, and/or book, i aint in the mood to deal with unpleasantries- if you get my drift. i dont carry in caledonia, they're kinda 'inbred' out there, not the populace, the cops. but generally i work 6 days a week, and it's on the hip every moment i'm there. though i dont think that counts for much- in the open carry world..........if the laws ever relax i dream of being a free man, carrying to and fro, unhindered, and unstopped.

  19. #19
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    New idea for signage on your privately owned businesses:



    Works for me....
    we went with: Open Carry allowed in this facility.

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