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Thread: Handgun posession w/ CPL and nonCPL holders in vehicle in transortation ??

  1. #1
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    Handgun posession w/ CPL and nonCPL holders in vehicle in transortation ??

    Hey, Folks. I have questions about legal posession of handgun in transporting handguns in vehicle.

    Can a CPL holder claim posession of nonCPL holder's handgun in either his own vehicle or in the nonCPL holder's vehicle? If so, what constitutes posession in the vehicle? Some insight would be helpful. Thanks.

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    i don't have a cite handy, but the short answer is yes, a cpl holder may legally possess more than one pistol, including a pistol that is registered to someone else. that part is codified.

    the definition of possession is most likely not defined by a law but by the courts.

    I would think that a cpl holder could have a gun in a vehicle almost anywhere and claim possession as long as the non-cpl holder was not actually touching/wearing the pistol. Ie: I would be comfortable as a cpl holder transporting a pistol in a center console or glovebox even if a passenger in my vehicle did not have a cpl. however, I would not leave the passenger in the vehicle with the pistol when i got out as the person in the vehicle may be committing a felony at that point.
    Last edited by lapeer20m; 10-28-2010 at 11:27 PM.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    But what if you're the passenger in their vehicle and they don't have a CPL?
    Will that pile of handguns on the back seat be a problem?

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    You could claim to be in possession of them, but why put yourself in that position?
    Last edited by stainless1911; 10-28-2010 at 11:50 PM.

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    In Michigan, a person holding a CPL can borrow/possess a handgun as long it is lawfully registered.

    Anytime it's in a vehicle it is considered concealed and someone claiming possession will need a CPL, UNLESS unloaded, and in the trunk of the vehicle or in a case in the passenger compartment if no trunk is available.
    Last edited by budlight; 10-29-2010 at 01:06 AM.

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    close. W/O CPL, the gun must be in the trunk unloaded, and in a case designed for a gun. In a vehicle without a trunk, the gun must likewise be cased, unloaded, and in a place not easily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle, and must be transported for a lawful purpose, see MCL 750.231a. In a situation where the vehicle has no trunk, although not required, I would personally recommend that the case be locked, just to add the extra step. Could be helpful for your defense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    close. W/O CPL, the gun must be in the trunk unloaded, and in a case designed for a gun. In a vehicle without a trunk, the gun must likewise be cased, unloaded, and in a place not easily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle, and must be transported for a lawful purpose, see MCL 750.231a. In a situation where the vehicle has no trunk, although not required, I would personally recommend that the case be locked, just to add the extra step. Could be helpful for your defense.
    That is what I just said in the above......the lawful purpose I left out because I assumed that was the original intention. Notice I said you need a CPL, UNLESS unloaded, and in the trunk of the vehicle or in a case in the passenger compartment if no trunk is available.
    Last edited by budlight; 10-29-2010 at 01:51 AM.

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    I only brought u[p lawful purpose because of the mistake in the MSP update that puts innocent people at risk of unconstitutional prosecution.

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    Smile

    I hear you, but unless you tell an LEO that you are on the way to shoot somebody or trade it for drugs you are safe on that part of the law.

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    cool. Best policy w/o CPL is to use the tried and true WRR. AKA, ****.

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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    That is what I just said in the above......
    No it isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    UNLESS unloaded, and in the trunk of the vehicle orin a case in the passenger compartment if no trunk is available.
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    close. W/O CPL, the gun must be in the trunk unloaded, and in a case designed for a gun. .
    That is a small but very significant difference.

    MCL 750.231a

    (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.
    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    No it isn't.





    That is a small but very significant difference.

    MCL 750.231a



    Bronson
    I answered the BASICS of the question at hand. But as usual my opinion was wrong. The next question is are we staying on topic? I wouldn’t want the forum police to bust us.

    It amazes me how some people take an answer to the whole next level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    No it isn't.





    That is a small but very significant difference.

    MCL 750.231a



    Bronson
    Question for MR BRONSON? Are you an attorney on a power trip? I ask because you sure seemed to pick apart this post??? If you are an attorney, please post you P number so others can verify your status as an attorney.
    Last edited by budlight; 10-29-2010 at 04:10 AM.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Wee bit touchy tonight?

    I have been corrected on this forum more times than I can count...it's how we learn. Small slip-ups like the one pointed out above have the potential to bring large problems. Everybody on this website is on the lookout to make sure the info presented here is factual and correct and nobody is above being corrected.

    I believe the proper response when someone points out a legal error in one of our posts should be something along the lines of "thanks, can't believe I missed that."

    Bronson
    Last edited by Bronson; 10-29-2010 at 04:27 AM.
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Thumbs up

    Amen
    "Liberty's too precious a thing to be buried in books...Men should hold it up in front of them every single day of their lives and say: 'I'm free to think and to speak. My ancestors couldn't. I can. And my children will."
    ,,, So Mote Be


    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.-- JC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Wee bit touchy tonight?

    I have been corrected on this forum more times than I can count...it's how we learn. Small slip-ups like the one pointed out above have the potential to bring large problems. Everybody on this website is on the lookout to make sure the info presented here is factual and correct and nobody is above being corrected.

    I believe the proper response when someone points out a legal error in one of our posts should be something along the lines of "thanks, can't believe I missed that."

    Bronson
    No, I’m tired of being CONTRADICTED for correct info. There are too many people on this form that if the exact wording is left out of an issue, they make an issue out of it. Even though what I post COVERS the issue, some people have to twist it around because not every detail was covered. I’m not the cops trying to bust someone, but the people on here treat others like they are LEOs looking for a fight.

    I’m starting to see why my friends have some unpleasant things to say about OCers and how they are just looking to start problems. Based on how SOME people challenge EVERYTHING on this forum tells me that maybe some of the OCers are just looking for problems??? I don’t know…..you tell me what the answer is.

    Please note that my response was an OVER ALL general answer to the original posters question, I didn't know I had to give a full legal brief on the matter.
    Last edited by budlight; 10-29-2010 at 04:56 AM.

  17. #17
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    Please don't take offense to this. Its just that one word does make all the difference in law. Sucks, but its the way of it. One word can mean the difference between freedom and a felony.

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    Smile it's the little things that count

    That is a small but very significant difference. (heres a example)

    Good Morning;
    I too am a downriver rat, just the other side of Outer Drive & Fort.
    That area is very well known for profiling, old habits have not died.
    LPD still sits in that party store parking lot as well as the hospital & clinic
    parking lots on the border looking into Detroit, I could only imagine
    LPD watching me open carry as I usally do, then noticing me put
    something in the trunk. I would bet you by the time I cross I-75 at
    Outer Drive I would be swarmed by not only LPD but MPD & APPD.
    Now imagine my firearm NOT being in the approved case per MCL 750.231a
    (end example)
    I dont think anyone is picking on you, it's just the small but very significant
    differences that could/would change someones life. Is it possible that this 2A
    group is proactively on the lookout to make sure the info presented here is factual and correct in it's entirety?

    it's too bad that your friends have some unpleasant things to say about OCers, IMO I dont think we are trying to start problems just the contrary.
    "Liberty's too precious a thing to be buried in books...Men should hold it up in front of them every single day of their lives and say: 'I'm free to think and to speak. My ancestors couldn't. I can. And my children will."
    ,,, So Mote Be


    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.-- JC

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Please don't take offense to this. Its just that one word does make all the difference in law. Sucks, but its the way of it. One word can mean the difference between freedom and a felony.
    yes sir
    "Liberty's too precious a thing to be buried in books...Men should hold it up in front of them every single day of their lives and say: 'I'm free to think and to speak. My ancestors couldn't. I can. And my children will."
    ,,, So Mote Be


    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.-- JC

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    close. W/O CPL, the gun must be in the trunk unloaded, and in a case designed for a gun.
    Would a range bag suffice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Please don't take offense to this. Its just that one word does make all the difference in law. Sucks, but its the way of it. One word can mean the difference between freedom and a felony.
    No one likes to be corrected, it points to our deficiencies, but the truth is ...words mean stuff. We need to be correct or be corrected. When someone points out an error with respect and civility, the good guys win.JMO.springerdave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wglide90 View Post
    Can a CPL holder claim posession of nonCPL holder's handgun in either his own vehicle or in the nonCPL holder's vehicle? If so, what constitutes posession in the vehicle? Some insight would be helpful. Thanks.
    I would also say to the first question that it wouldn't mater if the CPL holder is the driver or passenger as long as the nonCPL holder is never left alone in the vehicle.

    I suggest that the person without a CPL remove their holster so that if there is a traffic stop the LEO would have a harder time accusing them of unholstering during the stop. Not a law just a good idea.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    An instructor of mine used to like to say "You got it half right...and half right is all wrong."

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    An instructor of mine used to like to say "You got it half right...and half right is all wrong."

    Bronson
    Agreed.....excellent point!

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    I agree that the “approved case” is an important element that I failed to state in my original post. At the time I thought it was trivial, but after further consideration I realize its importance.

    What happened here was I took one of the replies not as a personal attack, but nit picking. After rereading these posts several times, I realize that it wasn’t the case, it was simply how I perceived it at the time.

    Unfortunately with email and internet forums things can be taken totally out of context when it never was an issue to begin with. This was my bad for not taking the time to think about it before I responded.

    To Bronson and anybody else I snapped at, I apologize.

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