Handgun posession w/ CPL and nonCPL holders in vehicle in transortation ??

Wglide90 · Oct 28, 2010

Hey, Folks. I have questions about legal posession of handgun in transporting handguns in vehicle.

Can a CPL holder claim posession of nonCPL holder's handgun in either his own vehicle or in the nonCPL holder's vehicle? If so, what constitutes posession in the vehicle? Some insight would be helpful. Thanks.

lapeer20m · Oct 28, 2010

i don't have a cite handy, but the short answer is yes, a cpl holder may legally possess more than one pistol, including a pistol that is registered to someone else. that part is codified.

the definition of possession is most likely not defined by a law but by the courts.

I would think that a cpl holder could have a gun in a vehicle almost anywhere and claim possession as long as the non-cpl holder was not actually touching/wearing the pistol. Ie: I would be comfortable as a cpl holder transporting a pistol in a center console or glovebox even if a passenger in my vehicle did not have a cpl. however, I would not leave the passenger in the vehicle with the pistol when i got out as the person in the vehicle may be committing a felony at that point.

DaveP · Oct 28, 2010

But what if you're the passenger in their vehicle and they don't have a CPL?
Will that pile of handguns on the back seat be a problem?

stainless1911 · Oct 28, 2010

You could claim to be in possession of them, but why put yourself in that position?

budlight · Oct 29, 2010

In Michigan, a person holding a CPL can borrow/possess a handgun as long it is lawfully registered.

Anytime it's in a vehicle it is considered concealed and someone claiming possession will need a CPL, UNLESS unloaded, and in the trunk of the vehicle or in a case in the passenger compartment if no trunk is available.

stainless1911 · Oct 29, 2010

close. W/O CPL, the gun must be in the trunk unloaded, and in a case designed for a gun. In a vehicle without a trunk, the gun must likewise be cased, unloaded, and in a place not easily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle, and must be transported for a lawful purpose, see MCL 750.231a. In a situation where the vehicle has no trunk, although not required, I would personally recommend that the case be locked, just to add the extra step. Could be helpful for your defense.

budlight · Oct 29, 2010

stainless1911 said:
close. W/O CPL, the gun must be in the trunk unloaded, and in a case designed for a gun. In a vehicle without a trunk, the gun must likewise be cased, unloaded, and in a place not easily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle, and must be transported for a lawful purpose, see MCL 750.231a. In a situation where the vehicle has no trunk, although not required, I would personally recommend that the case be locked, just to add the extra step. Could be helpful for your defense.

That is what I just said in the above......the lawful purpose I left out because I assumed that was the original intention. Notice I said you need a CPL, UNLESS unloaded, and in the trunk of the vehicle or in a case in the passenger compartment if no trunk is available.

stainless1911 · Oct 29, 2010

I only brought u[p lawful purpose because of the mistake in the MSP update that puts innocent people at risk of unconstitutional prosecution.

budlight · Oct 29, 2010

I hear you, but unless you tell an LEO that you are on the way to shoot somebody or trade it for drugs you are safe on that part of the law.

stainless1911 · Oct 29, 2010

cool. Best policy w/o CPL is to use the tried and true WRR. AKA, STFU.

Bronson · Oct 29, 2010

budlight said:
That is what I just said in the above......

No it isn't.

budlight said:
UNLESS unloaded, and in the trunk of the vehicle orin a case in the passenger compartment if no trunk is available.

stainless1911 said:
close. W/O CPL, the gun must be in the trunk unloaded, and in a case designed for a gun. .

That is a small but very significant difference.

MCL 750.231a

(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

(d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

Bronson

budlight · Oct 29, 2010

Bronson said:
No it isn't.

That is a small but very significant difference.

MCL 750.231a

Bronson

I answered the BASICS of the question at hand. But as usual my opinion was wrong. The next question is are we staying on topic? I wouldn’t want the forum police to bust us.

It amazes me how some people take an answer to the whole next level.

budlight · Oct 29, 2010

Bronson said:
No it isn't.

That is a small but very significant difference.

MCL 750.231a

Bronson

Question for MR BRONSON? Are you an attorney on a power trip? I ask because you sure seemed to pick apart this post??? If you are an attorney, please post you P number so others can verify your status as an attorney.

Bronson · Oct 29, 2010

Wee bit touchy tonight?

I have been corrected on this forum more times than I can count...it's how we learn. Small slip-ups like the one pointed out above have the potential to bring large problems. Everybody on this website is on the lookout to make sure the info presented here is factual and correct and nobody is above being corrected.

I believe the proper response when someone points out a legal error in one of our posts should be something along the lines of "thanks, can't believe I missed that."

Bronson

Master Control · Oct 29, 2010

budlight · Oct 29, 2010

Bronson said:
Wee bit touchy tonight?

I have been corrected on this forum more times than I can count...it's how we learn. Small slip-ups like the one pointed out above have the potential to bring large problems. Everybody on this website is on the lookout to make sure the info presented here is factual and correct and nobody is above being corrected.

I believe the proper response when someone points out a legal error in one of our posts should be something along the lines of "thanks, can't believe I missed that."

Bronson

No, I’m tired of being CONTRADICTED for correct info. There are too many people on this form that if the exact wording is left out of an issue, they make an issue out of it. Even though what I post COVERS the issue, some people have to twist it around because not every detail was covered. I’m not the cops trying to bust someone, but the people on here treat others like they are LEOs looking for a fight.

I’m starting to see why my friends have some unpleasant things to say about OCers and how they are just looking to start problems. Based on how SOME people challenge EVERYTHING on this forum tells me that maybe some of the OCers are just looking for problems??? I don’t know…..you tell me what the answer is.

Please note that my response was an OVER ALL general answer to the original posters question, I didn't know I had to give a full legal brief on the matter.

stainless1911 · Oct 29, 2010

Please don't take offense to this. Its just that one word does make all the difference in law. Sucks, but its the way of it. One word can mean the difference between freedom and a felony.

Master Control · Oct 29, 2010

it's the little things that count

That is a small but very significant difference. (heres a example)

Good Morning;
I too am a downriver rat, just the other side of Outer Drive & Fort.
That area is very well known for profiling, old habits have not died.
LPD still sits in that party store parking lot as well as the hospital & clinic
parking lots on the border looking into Detroit, I could only imagine
LPD watching me open carry as I usally do, then noticing me put
something in the trunk. I would bet you by the time I cross I-75 at
Outer Drive I would be swarmed by not only LPD but MPD & APPD.
Now imagine my firearm NOT being in the approved case per MCL 750.231a
(end example)
I dont think anyone is picking on you, it's just the small but very significant
differences that could/would change someones life. Is it possible that this 2A
group is proactively on the lookout to make sure the info presented here is factual and correct in it's entirety?

it's too bad that your friends have some unpleasant things to say about OCers, IMO I dont think we are trying to start problems just the contrary.

Master Control · Oct 29, 2010

stainless1911 said:
Please don't take offense to this. Its just that one word does make all the difference in law. Sucks, but its the way of it. One word can mean the difference between freedom and a felony.

yes sir

mrjam2jab · Oct 29, 2010

stainless1911 said:
close. W/O CPL, the gun must be in the trunk unloaded, and in a case designed for a gun.

Would a range bag suffice?

Handgun posession w/ CPL and nonCPL holders in vehicle in transortation ??

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