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Thread: Will Fimian defend self-defense?

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Will Fimian defend self-defense?


  2. #2
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    All that backpeddling might make him a year younger

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    Will a politician act and talk like a politician...

    Yes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    All that backpeddling might make him a year younger
    Speaking of heat, it seems he can't take the heat.

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    I was thinking about all that stuff this morning after having heard it on the news. The question is whom he has to avoid alienating. Conservative gun people will vote for him anyway. Liberal leaning independents are scared of guns because they can only think about "guns kill people" and can't get past their emotional reaction to an understanding of the notion of doing what's necessary to preserve one's life. So, if I were his campaign advisor, I'd have told him, first, don't use the kind of language he did ("students packing heat" ought to have been "responsible adult lawfully carrying a firearm"), and second, "don't worry about the gun people, they'll vote for you anyway" (would they really vote for Connolly under any circumstances?).

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    "Students definitely shouldn't have guns." You just lost my vote (luckily I'm not in your district, Mr. Fimian).

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter45 View Post
    "Students definitely shouldn't have guns." You just lost my vote (luckily I'm not in your district, Mr. Fimian).
    I just sent him an note regarding his statement.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I LOVE when people like this say "students should't have guns"...

    My answer, is "What about me?. I'm 45 years old, I've worked for DOJ contractors for 15 years, I'm an Eagle Scout, I have held security clearances, I have a spotless legal record, I'm a competitive shooter, I have concealed carry permits issued from 3 states, and I'm working on becoming an NRA-certified instructor. Should I not be allowed to carry for self defense?"

    They usually say something like, "well, we're not trying to keep people like YOU from owning firearms..."

    Ad I'll respond, "yes you are, because I'm also a graduate student..."

    Then the cognitive dissonance starts to set in their tiny little hoplophobic brains...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I don't live in the 11th District, I can't vote or not vote for either of these gentlemen.

    If you want to, you can imagine that you live in a mythical utopia, where your votes only go for perfect candidates. Or... you can understand that you actually live in a very real world, populated by human beings, none of which are perfect.

    You get to pick between Fimian and Connolly. Not voting, is a vote for Connolly. Nobody seriously tries to figure out why voters don't vote, and even fewer than that "get a message" from people who stay at home. The only number that matters is who has the most votes at 7 PM on Tuesday.

    Voltaire said "the perfect is the enemy of the good", and I would add "and the friend of the bad!"

    It would be hard to imagine a better description of this particular race.

    TFred

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Ok, now that's a disappointment. First, the host made a comment about the "gun show loophole" and the guy on the left said (paraphased), "You mean where people can buy guys at gun shows and not have to go through a background check". That statement is more than just misleading as we all know. It's an outright lie and an erroneous attempt to set the stage. Fimian should have immediately corrected this before continuing. But he didn't which shows he is not well informed about the subject and how to respond to rhetorical errors.

    Next, he made his statement that students definitely should not have guns (on campus). Once again, this shows ignorance. But worse, it raises the idea that perhaps this guy is a centrist or worse.. a RINO. While he still appears to be better than Connolly, can he be depended upon to be America's friend and a supporter of the Bill of Rights... as in all of it?
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 10-30-2010 at 10:38 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  11. #11
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Voltaire said "the perfect is the enemy of the good", and I would add "and the friend of the bad!"

    It would be hard to imagine a better description of this particular race.
    TFred
    +1

    I guess the quote by Sir Edmund Burke applies hear (to voting):

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

  12. #12
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I can't help but be reminded of this now-famous quote. This is the playing field we are on. Byrd may have been a schmuck, but he won, he kept winning, and he imposed his ideology on West Virginia and The United States for decades.

    “He once had a fleeting association with the Ku Klux Klan, what does that mean? I’ll tell you what it means. He was a country boy from the hills and hollows from West Virginia. He was trying to get elected,” former President Bill Clinton said of Sen. Robert Byrd.

    “And maybe he did something he shouldn’t have done come and he spent the rest of his life making it up. And that’s what a good person does. There are no perfect people. There are certainly no perfect politicians,” he added.
    Whose ideology do you want in Washington, Fimian's or Connolly's? It's going to be one or the other. The "Sit at home" candidate doesn't even get a voice in Washington, much less a vote.

    Fimian is not the perfect candidate. There is no doubt he is better than his opponent. Next election, run a better one in his place.

    TFred

  13. #13
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    It's CAPITULATION that is the problem

    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    I was thinking about all that stuff this morning after having heard it on the news. The question is whom he has to avoid alienating.
    The real problem is how quickly Fimian capitulated to the gun-haters.

    First, Keith speaks freely and without coaching from his handlers.

    Then, gun-control groups immediately push back.

    Then they run a TV ad.

    Then, Fimian's handler responds with a strong statement: Keith's "Packing heat" remark was "EXTREMELY inappropriate ..."

    Finally, Keith appears with Joe on a radio show and runs away from his original position like a scared little boy.

    If he is willing to betray good, sound reason in order to appease the Statists, then what other issues would he capitulate?

    Because it is clear he is a coward, he cannot be trusted now.

    That is what is relevant.

  14. #14
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    GOA did not rate Fiminan

    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    I just sent him an note regarding his statement.
    Good for you!

    GOA did not rate Fimian.

    Connolly got an F.

    David Dotson, the Libertarian candidate for the 11th, rates an A.

    His attitude is refreshing for the district:

    I believe in the ideals of individual freedom that the Founding Fathers claimed in the Declaration of Independence, and confirmed in the Constitution. And I believe the primary responsibility, the most important duty, of our representatives in Congress is to protect - or, perhaps more accurately, to restore - our constitutional Republic, and to fight that most noble fight, the never-ending battle to "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity."

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    The real problem is how quickly Fimian capitulated to the gun-haters.

    First, Keith speaks freely and without coaching from his handlers.

    Then, gun-control groups immediately push back.

    Then they run a TV ad.

    Then, Fimian's handler responds with a strong statement: Keith's "Packing heat" remark was "EXTREMELY inappropriate ..."

    Finally, Keith appears with Joe on a radio show and runs away from his original position like a scared little boy.

    If he is willing to betray good, sound reason in order to appease the Statists, then what other issues would he capitulate?

    Because it is clear he is a coward, he cannot be trusted now.

    That is what is relevant.
    And this what scares me the most. Republicans for years have tucked tail and turned around whenever democrats have raised the "racist" flag, which they seemed to be obsessed with doing. The late Samuel Francis called Republican Party the Stupid Party, not because they were stupid but because he was trying to build a fire under their butts and tell them to stand up for that which you believe.

    The way to fight political fire is with a hotter fire. This is what is making the Tea Party such a powerful constituency. They are the core constituents of the dead Republican Party.. the RINOs that left them in favor of trying to do more than the democrats. What the Tea Party is really trying get across is party-neutral in that its basic platform is the Constitution.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  16. #16
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    A Cell Phone or a gun?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    And this what scares me the most. Republicans for years have tucked tail and turned around whenever democrats have raised the "racist" flag, which they seemed to be obsessed with doing. The late Samuel Francis called Republican Party the Stupid Party, not because they were stupid but because he was trying to build a fire under their butts and tell them to stand up for that which you believe.

    The way to fight political fire is with a hotter fire. This is what is making the Tea Party such a powerful constituency. They are the core constituents of the dead Republican Party.. the RINOs that left them in favor of trying to do more than the democrats. What the Tea Party is really trying get across is party-neutral in that its basic platform is the Constitution.
    -------------------------------------------
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?
    A cell phone or a gun? Funny you should ask:

    Never Bring A Cell Phone To A Gun Fight

    As any security expert will tell you, the only way to ensure your safety when confronted by a gun-toting homicidal maniac on a murdering spree is to call the proper authorities and wait patiently for them to arrive as only they have the training and skills necessary to handle these situations. Among those proper authorities would be the police, the medical examiner, the mortician, the grief counselor and the obituary editor of your local paper.

    But you can’t stop there. To be really safe, you have to take that extra step and make sure you advertise that fact as widely as possible, since the more people who know that a given area is populated by hundreds of defenseless pre-victims, the safer they’ll all be.

    You can try this strategy yourself. The next time you’re going away for a few days, leave your house unlocked and make sure you update your facebook page, tweet your followers, and post your plans on Craig’s List, so as many people know as possible being sure to note in very stern language that burglary is illegal.

    And then sit back and enjoy your worry-free trip.

    Mr. Fimian’s opponent, current incumbent Congressman Gerry Connolly, had his campaign manager, James Walkinshaw, respond in the measured tones that have marked this campaign season, calling Fimian’s comments, “extreme,” “outrageous,” “way out of the mainstream," showing a “lack of regard for the victims of the tragedy,” and “too extreme.”

    There was no word on whether Mr. Walkinshaw required oxygen afterwards.

  17. #17
    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    I'm going to phone bank for Fimian while OCing. Why am I supporting Fimian and not the Libertarian? Because I'm not a one issue person and I'm not a 3rd Party person. I don't WANT Connolly getting re-elected. You don't get much worse than Gerry and the reality is that a vote for Dotson is a vote thrown away that could stop Connolly.

  18. #18
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richarcm View Post
    I'm going to phone bank for Fimian while OCing. Why am I supporting Fimian and not the Libertarian? Because I'm not a one issue person and I'm not a 3rd Party person. I don't WANT Connolly getting re-elected. You don't get much worse than Gerry and the reality is that a vote for Dotson is a vote thrown away that could stop Connolly.
    You're right. The last thing we need is people throwing away votes this election.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter45 View Post
    "Students definitely shouldn't have guns." You just lost my vote (luckily I'm not in your district, Mr. Fimian).
    I don't care what one does for their vocation/avocation IF THEY ARE OF LEGAL AGE AND HAVE NO OTHER IMPEDIMENTS TO THEIR OWNING A FIREARM WHY SHOULD A STUDENT BE THE SPECIAL CASE?

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    I do believe that Fimian just made that apology to shut everyone up who was offended by his original comments. I don't think he was really sorry (at least I hope he wasn't sorry). I think we heard his real views the first time when he said an armed student could have prevented the VT tragedy. Although I wish Fimian would have stood by his comment and not have apologized.

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter45 View Post
    I do believe that Fimian just made that apology to shut everyone up who was offended by his original comments. I don't think he was really sorry (at least I hope he wasn't sorry). I think we heard his real views the first time when he said an armed student could have prevented the VT tragedy. Although I wish Fimian would have stood by his comment and not have apologized.
    That just shows that he is another fair weather pro 2end politician.

    Unfortunately, it's no different than any other election. Choose the best of the bad but don't base it on a single issue. There is a Hell of a lot going on these days.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    A (desparate?) plea from AG Ken!

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    That just shows that he is another fair weather pro 2end politician.

    Unfortunately, it's no different than any other election. Choose the best of the bad but don't base it on a single issue. There is a Hell of a lot going on these days.
    Cuccinelli speaks:

    Dear Fellow Virginians,

    For the past 16 years, residents of Fairfax have had to deal with the destructive voting record of Gerry Connolly. First as Providence District Supervisor then Chairman of the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors - and now as a US Congressman, Gerry has a tried and true voting record as one of the most destructive influences on the Northern Virginia economy. And that says a lot.

    On October 26th the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) made one of the largest single ad buys this election cycle and poured over 1 million dollars into the 11th District race against Keith Fimian. Of course, all of these ads are harshly negative, and aimed at driving down turnout low enough so that Connolly can squeeze his way into a second term.

    Before that buy, Keith was up on air almost 2-1 against Connolly, and all indicators point to the fact that the race is very - very - close. So why did the DCCC make such a huge 11th hour contribution to the race? Simple.

    Connolly is one of Nancy Pelosi's most reliable votes in Congress.

    As most of you know, Keith Fimian is a strong conservative and successful businessman who is running an effective grassroots campaign.He has come a long way towards defeating Connolly - but for Keith to win, he needs your help. Please, in the remaining two days of the campaign, make a real effort to help, however you can. Keith needs volunteers to knock on doors, make phone calls - and most critically, if you live in the 11th - voting for him on Nov. 2nd.

    Please make sure to go the extra mile for Keith - in the final days of this race, your help means more than ever. So, please go to Keith's website and help out!

    Thank you so much!

    Sincerely,

    Ken Cuccinelli, II
    Attorney General of Virginia
    Hmm ...
    Last edited by Repeater; 10-31-2010 at 12:34 PM.

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    He's not going to be voting on state bills, and college carry is a state issue, not federal.
    Way too many people don't understand this. Thank you for pointing it out.

    I'm voting for Fimian even though Cuccinelli likes him.

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    Way too many people don't understand this. Thank you for pointing it out.

    I'm voting for Fimian even though Cuccinelli likes him.


    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...inelli+compass

    From a forum perspective, though, I would prefer campaign literature not be copied here. I would prefer our members talk about pro-OC and pro-RKBA issues, referencing points or websites, but keeping the issue to gun topics.

    Just my $0.02.
    Tess
    Last edited by peter nap; 10-31-2010 at 03:09 PM.

  25. #25
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    Will Fimian vote FOR closing the 'Gun Show Loophole' -- that is a federal issue!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    Way too many people don't understand this. Thank you for pointing it out.

    I'm voting for Fimian even though Cuccinelli likes him.
    But do you understand that Fiimian is being pressured RIGHT NOW to support closing the (fictitious) 'Gun Show Loophole' -- but will he defend the rights of gun owners or not? Well, see what his handler has to say, from WTOP:

    Tim Edson, a Fimian campaign spokesman, refused to say if Fimian would support legislation without knowing the exact details.

    "His view is that we need to make sure that we're protecting our constitutional rights but also protecting our society from criminals having guns, from people that are mentally ill having guns and making sure that guns aren't in the hands of our kids," Edson said.
    Yet, the pressure builds on Fimian to capitulate yet again:

    Last week, Keith Fimian, a candidate for Congress in Virginia's 11th District, told a reporter the April 2007 Virginia Tech shooting would have been averted had students been "packing heat." On Friday, Fimian and his campaign backtracked saying it was an "offhand comment" and that "his words were very poorly chosen" and "did not ... take into account the gravity of the situation." When asked if he supports closing the Gun Show Loophole, which enables criminals and the mentally ill to buy guns no questions asked, he refused to answer, and jumped into a car.

    "Because I found Keith Fimian's earlier comments about the Virginia Tech tragedy offensive, I met with him yesterday along with other Virginia Tech family members," said retired Lieutenant Colonel Peter Read, father of Virginia Tech victim Mary Karen Read. "And though he offered his apology for the words he chose, he has yet to decide his answer on the simple question of whether he'll support background checks for every gun sold at a gun show. I need my representative in Congress to know the answer to that question."

    Seventy five Virginia Tech family members have called on Congress to close the Gun Show Loophole, including retired Lieutenant Colonel Peter Read.

    "It's hard to believe a candidate for the U.S. Congress doesn't appreciate the gravity of the massacre at Virginia Tech," said Omar Samaha, brother of Virginia Tech victim Reema Samaha. "We are tired of politicians who are unwilling to stand up for public safety and support closing the Gun Show Loophole. Why is Keith Fimian protecting criminals instead of protecting us?"
    Congress could close the 'Gun Show Loophole' federally if it has the votes and the will to do so, so this discussion is in fact a federal issue in addition to being a state issue.

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