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Thread: CC in car without a CC permit

  1. #1
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    CC in car without a CC permit

    Can you have a concealed weapon in your car if you don't have a CWP (waiting for mine to be approved) since your car is like your home?

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    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    18-12-105. Unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon - unlawful possession of weapons.


    (2) It shall not be an offense if the defendant was:



    (b) A person in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance who carries a weapon for lawful protection of such person's or another's person or property while traveling; or
    Yes you can

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    According to C.R.S 18-12-105, It's perfectly legal as long as you are "A person in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance who carries a weapon for lawful protection of such person's or another's person or property while traveling".

    I'm not sure if this also protects you when you leave your gun in the car while you go into Walmart or not.

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    I don't leave it in my car and I open carry but I was just wondering like if I was wearing a coat or something while it's cold.

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    Fair enough.

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    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    It's perfectly legal to have your gun in your car, however you wish, no matter what. The only place you would have to concern yourself with how or if you leave your gun in your car is school grounds. Without a a CHP, you cannot have a gun on K-12 school grounds, unless you are in your car with your gun and do not leave your car.....on college grounds it must be unloaded and left in your car if you go walking around. With a CHP, things are little different.

    This is covered under CRS 18-12-105.5

    Note that I'm not speaking to the practicality (or not) of leaving a gun in a vehicle, just point out the legalities.

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    Wow, didn't know the unloaded part about college grounds. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PikesPeakMtnMan View Post
    This is covered under CRS 18-12-105.5
    Here's the actual link.

    Given: "(3) It shall not be an offense under this section if: (b) The person is in that person's own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under that person's control at the time of the act of carrying..."

    It could be argued that one is always in control of the property beneath one's feet. Provided one isn't tresspassing, one has "control" of this property by rule of law known as "right of way." I wouldn't press the issue in any court of law unless I had the best dang lawyer in the state, however, if not the country.

    Regardless, this conflicts with the superceding federal laws regarding carry near K-12 school grounds.

    However, these restrictions have several exemptions:

    (3) It shall not be an offense under this section if:

    (d.5) The weapon involved was a handgun and the person held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3)

    and 18-12-214 (3) says:

    (3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; except that:

    (a) A permittee may have a handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in his or her vehicle and, if the permittee is not in the vehicle, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked;

    (b) A permittee who is employed or retained by contract by a school district as a school security officer may carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvement erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school while the permittee is on duty;

    (c) A permittee may carry a concealed handgun on undeveloped real property owned by a school district that is used for hunting or other shooting sports.


    So, state law says:

    With CHP:

    K-12, ok while in vehicle, but if not in vehicle, the firearm must be within a closed compartment and the vehicle locked, unless one is a school security officer or one is on school property used for hunting/shooting.
    Last edited by since9; 11-01-2010 at 10:35 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    cc in car

    I have spoken to several law enforcement agents this is a grey area they all give different answers

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    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PikesPeakMtnMan View Post
    It's perfectly legal to have your gun in your car, however you wish, no matter what. .
    I had an ex Denver LEO try and tell me different the other day. Said it couldn't be with in reach or you had to go through more than one step to access it.

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    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    LEOs are about the worst people from whom to get legal advice.

    The law says, quite clearly, that a concealed weapon in your vehicle is not illegal.

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    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PikesPeakMtnMan View Post
    LEOs are about the worst people from whom to get legal advice.

    The law says, quite clearly, that a concealed weapon in your vehicle is not illegal.
    Agreed. We got it straightened out though.

    He is a pretty cool guy. We are on a volunteer fire department together and he totally supports carry by us lowly subjects. He is not a fan of OC but doesn't condemn it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by charleysbad View Post
    I have spoken to several law enforcement agents this is a grey area...
    It's only "grey" among the LEOs, depending upon whom you ask. It's very well laid out in the Colorado Revised Statutes.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    I had an ex Denver LEO try and tell me different the other day. Said it couldn't be with in reach or you had to go through more than one step to access it.
    The x leo is wrong. Typical of Denver cops. Carry it any way and anywhere you choose in your car. Full state preemption.
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 01-09-2011 at 01:57 PM.

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    I know that this is an old thread, but it's been quite a while since I've been on this forum. I've stayed away far longer than I should have.

    I see that several people mentioned CRS 18-12-105, but I'm a little disappointed that nobody apparently thought to mention CRS 18-12-204:

    (3) (a) A person who may lawfully possess a handgun may carry a handgun under the following circumstances without obtaining a permit and the handgun shall not be considered concealed:
    (I) The handgun is in the possession of a person who is in a private automobile or in some other private means of conveyance and who carries the handgun for a legal use, including self-defense; or
    (II) The handgun is in the possession of a person who is legally engaged in hunting activities within the state.

    In my opinion, that's in many ways the most relevant law concerning guns in cars.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer22 View Post
    I know that this is an old thread, but it's been quite a while since I've been on this forum. I've stayed away far longer than I should have.

    I see that several people mentioned CRS 18-12-105, but I'm a little disappointed that nobody apparently thought to mention CRS 18-12-204:

    (3) (a) A person who may lawfully possess a handgun may carry a handgun under the following circumstances without obtaining a permit and the handgun shall not be considered concealed:
    (I) The handgun is in the possession of a person who is in a private automobile or in some other private means of conveyance and who carries the handgun for a legal use, including self-defense; or
    (II) The handgun is in the possession of a person who is legally engaged in hunting activities within the state.

    In my opinion, that's in many ways the most relevant law concerning guns in cars.
    When I said carry it any way you want in your car--including thru Denver, I thought this was asked and answered. 12-105 or 204--one is an exclusory and one is a permitted province of the statutes. Both give the same answer, as is often the case, and some consider a waste of time, in state RSAs. Sometimes the simple answers are the best for an OP. Hence, my succinct one liner. A more important point, however, is another example of a cop who doesn't know the law--and an important one, at that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by charleysbad View Post
    I have spoken to several law enforcement agents this is a grey area they all give different answers
    That's why you don't ask law enforcement agents for legal advice.

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    I was actually charged with this one year ago in denver. It took nine months to work its way through the court system.eventually everything was dismissed.

    My point is that sadly you can spend literally thousands of dollars to prove that everything you did was legal.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    I was actually charged with this one year ago in denver. It took nine months to work its way through the court system.eventually everything was dismissed.

    My point is that sadly you can spend literally thousands of dollars to prove that everything you did was legal.
    Malicious prosecution suit is a remedy. Proving malice can be tough, but reckless disregard of the law is often accepted prima facie. Not sure in Colorado, however. If you win, they pay your expenses and you can get significant punitive damages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    I was actually charged with this one year ago in denver. It took nine months to work its way through the court system.eventually everything was dismissed.

    My point is that sadly you can spend literally thousands of dollars to prove that everything you did was legal.
    Yours is one of the many shameful examples that we honest, law-abiding citizens must endure through pain, misery, and thousands of dollars, just to see the wheels of justice adhere to the laws upon which they're riding.

    Hope you don't mind, but I've been keeping a record of yours and similar efforts in the hopes of one day presenting measures before both my state and our country which would require either the state or the department of justice to pay for any and all legal expenses associated with any city/county/state legal action taken against a justifiable shooting.

    When I lived in WA, I read about three such incidents which were dismissed before they ever became an issue. It's a monetary incentive for local/state prosecutors to NOT tackle self-defense issues unless they're dang sure the defendant acted well outside the bounds of the law.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Yours is one of the many shameful examples that we honest, law-abiding citizens must endure through pain, misery, and thousands of dollars, just to see the wheels of justice adhere to the laws upon which they're riding.

    Hope you don't mind, but I've been keeping a record of yours and similar efforts in the hopes of one day presenting measures before both my state and our country which would require either the state or the department of justice to pay for any and all legal expenses associated with any city/county/state legal action taken against a justifiable shooting.

    When I lived in WA, I read about three such incidents which were dismissed before they ever became an issue. It's a monetary incentive for local/state prosecutors to NOT tackle self-defense issues unless they're dang sure the defendant acted well outside the bounds of the law.
    You can recover costs if bad faith was involved. Even in the criminal trial, the judge may impose sanctions against the prosecutor. In civil court, e.g., 1983 actions, all costs are covered as well as real damages in addition to any punitive damages you're awarded. I would like to see this law for any prosecution ending in a NG verdict, personally, even if bad faith wasn't involved.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    You can recover costs if bad faith was involved.
    You are a lawyer.

    Even in the criminal trial, the judge may impose sanctions against the prosecutor. In civil court, e.g., 1983 actions, all costs are covered as well as real damages in addition to any punitive damages you're awarded. I would like to see this law for any prosecution ending in a NG verdict, personally, even if bad faith wasn't involved.
    At least a paralegal.

    Sigh. No, you're a lawyer, and your handwriting is on the wall, so to speak, six ways to Sunday.

    So, Gunslinger, What's Up? Why are you at this, and if you're NOT a lawyer, I would ask you file such asap. That gives you less than 30 days.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    You are a lawyer.



    At least a paralegal.

    Sigh. No, you're a lawyer, and your handwriting is on the wall, so to speak, six ways to Sunday.

    So, Gunslinger, What's Up? Why are you at this, and if you're NOT a lawyer, I would ask you file such asap. That gives you less than 30 days.
    I'm not a lawyer, just have legal education. Not following you on "filing." File what?

  24. #24
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    File it or lose it. It's not my case, but most of us would like to know how it turns out.

    Humor us!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  25. #25
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Yours is one of the many shameful examples that we honest, law-abiding citizens must endure through pain, misery, and thousands of dollars, just to see the wheels of justice adhere to the laws upon which they're riding.

    Hope you don't mind, but I've been keeping a record of yours and similar efforts in the hopes of one day presenting measures before both my state and our country which would require either the state or the department of justice to pay for any and all legal expenses associated with any city/county/state legal action taken against a justifiable shooting.
    Sadly this is only one of many examples I've encountered in just my own experience. This particular case happened because Denver PD was called to investigate a traffic accident in which I was the victim. He was charged with unsafe lane change, me with unlawful carry.
    That was the thrid time the Denver PD took this particular firearm in their posession.

    I have literally spent in excess on $10,000 to prove my ability to carry lawfully.

    If you're keeping records, my own file is more than an inch thick.

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