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Thread: Forest, VA man will will forced to OC for the next year

  1. #1
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    Forest, VA man will will forced to OC for the next year

    http://www.wdbj7.com/news/wdbj-lynch...0,984356.story

    The two other charges were not dismissed, just not prosecuted. In addition he was reprimanded by the Judge. They also left out the man had to forfeit his firearm.

    Question for user or other attorney, how can a GDC Judge revoke or suspended something he has no jurisdiction over? Perhaps I must something in the reckless handling law.

    As part of the plea the Commonwealth would not be able to prove that the man had ordered a drink. At the time of the incident he had sat down a glass and just ordered a beer. It was some type of bring your own glass night.

    It was bad enough being shot in the buttocks, but he has to give up his firearm too. So it looks like for the next 12 months he will be forced to OC.

  2. #2
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    This is why you should not drink while carrying, I do not care if its a sip. How did he even shoot himself? was he fooling with his gun? was he drunk? did he order a beer, and then pulled the gun trigger,(was he drunk?)

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenny View Post
    http://www.wdbj7.com/news/wdbj-lynch...0,984356.story

    The two other charges were not dismissed, just not prosecuted. In addition he was reprimanded by the Judge. They also left out the man had to forfeit his firearm.

    Question for user or other attorney, how can a GDC Judge revoke or suspended something he has no jurisdiction over? Perhaps I must something in the reckless handling law.

    As part of the plea the Commonwealth would not be able to prove that the man had ordered a drink. At the time of the incident he had sat down a glass and just ordered a beer. It was some type of bring your own glass night.

    It was bad enough being shot in the buttocks, but he has to give up his firearm too. So it looks like for the next 12 months he will be forced to OC.
    The Judge suspended jail time Kenny. He could appeal it but that is almost always a bad move in cases like this.

    GD court is not a court of record so the case would start fresh, not just the sentence.

    It always seems that appeals when your guilty get a harsher sentence.

    This guy is an idiot. Just because he owns a gun doesn't mean he's one of the boys or should be supported. He went in a posted bar with a gun, drank, played with his gun in his pocket and shot himself.

    What's to support?

  4. #4
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308

    E. The following persons shall be deemed disqualified from obtaining a permit:

    13. An individual who the court finds, by a preponderance of the evidence, based on specific acts by the applicant, is likely to use a weapon unlawfully or negligently to endanger others. The sheriff, chief of police, or attorney for the Commonwealth may submit to the court a sworn written statement indicating that, in the opinion of such sheriff, chief of police, or attorney for the Commonwealth, based upon a disqualifying conviction or upon the specific acts set forth in the statement, the applicant is likely to use a weapon unlawfully or negligently to endanger others. The statement of the sheriff, chief of police, or the attorney for the Commonwealth shall be based upon personal knowledge of such individual or of a deputy sheriff, police officer, or assistant attorney for the Commonwealth of the specific acts, or upon a written statement made under oath before a notary public of a competent person having personal knowledge of the specific acts.

    AND

    J. Any person convicted of an offense that would disqualify that person from obtaining a permit under subsection E or who violates subsection F shall forfeit his permit for a concealed handgun and surrender it to the court. Upon receipt by the Central Criminal Records Exchange of a record of the arrest, conviction or occurrence of any other event that would disqualify a person from obtaining a concealed handgun permit under subsection E, the Central Criminal Records Exchange shall notify the court having issued the permit of such disqualifying arrest, conviction or other event. Upon receipt of such notice of a conviction, the court shall revoke the permit of a person disqualified pursuant to this subsection, and shall promptly notify the State Police and the person whose permit was revoked of the revocation.
    I think Kenny's point was a GD Judge can't yank a permit. That should fall under Circuit Court.

    That may be right but he can tell him to surrender his permit or spend some quiet time with Bubba.

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    The guy pleaded guilty to reckless handling of a firearm. I doubt that he will appeal, unless he want to try and get his firearm back. The other two charges were not prosecuted. The Judge asked for a summary of the evidence before he passed sentenced. The Commonwealth said that they could not prove that the man was drinking. They could only prove that he ordered a drink. When he went to pay for that drink, he reached in his pocket and got his wallet. He paid for the drink and replaced his wallet into the same pocket where he had his loaded Glock with one in the chamber. Those of us familiar with Glocks can assume what happened next.

    I know that GDC Judges pull a few tricks out of their hat from time to time. Maybe this is one of those times.

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    He apparently was carrying a Glock sans holster in his back pocket with his wallet. Took out his wallet to pay, put wallet back and BLAM - we have a problem now.

    Heck of a price to pay for not using a holster, which would have been much cheaper all the way around.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I think Kenny's point was a GD Judge can't yank a permit. That should fall under Circuit Court.

    That may be right but he can tell him to surrender his permit or spend some quiet time with Bubba.
    You are correct on the options concerning a suspended sentence. A judge has a LOT of leeway on that and gives you a choice, sometime one you don't like. Here in SC a few years ago a judge ordered a supended sentence for two fellow convicted of rape. Either a long time in jail or castration. The public outcry was something else with all kinds of claims about cruel and unusual punishment. All the judge did was say 30 years in jail which was the normal sentence or castration, their choice. In the above case the judge said 30 days or give up the permit for a year. I know which one I would take.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    He apparently was carrying a Glock sans holster in his back pocket with his wallet. Took out his wallet to pay, put wallet back and BLAM - we have a problem now.

    Heck of a price to pay for not using a holster, which would have been much cheaper all the way around.
    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member USNA69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenny View Post
    He paid for the drink and replaced his wallet into the same pocket where he had his loaded Glock with one in the chamber. Those of us familiar with Glocks can assume what happened next.
    And that is precisely why I installed a SIDERLOCK on my G19:
    http://www.siderlock.com/

  10. #10
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    This is precisely why you should ALWAYS use a pocket holster if you are going to carry in your pocket!

  11. #11
    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    How in the heck did this guy get his wallet and a Glock in the same pocket? He must have been wearing cargo pants.

    Quote Originally Posted by USNA69 View Post
    And that is precisely why I installed a SIDERLOCK on my G19:
    http://www.siderlock.com/
    Precisely? You installed a manual safety on your Glock so that you could carry it in your pocket with your wallet?

    My Glock's "manual safety" is a Blackhawk Serpa holster.

    Siderlock is at least one more part that could malfunction, or that the user could forget about when it's really needed. What else is there to like about a stock Glock besides its ease of use, weight, and built-in safety mechanisms? There are other handguns with a manual safety built-in.

    From Glock:
    PSYCHOLOGY
    Every use of a firearm exposes users to tremendous psychological strain. Learned patterns are easily forgotten in such borderline situations and complex operating elements become a deadly trap. GLOCK offers the best solution to this problem: “Safe Action“!
    One operating element - one rule. Finger away from the trigger, three pistol safeties are active. Pull the trigger, the safeties are deactivated and the pistol is fired. Consequently the user can fully concentrate on his tactical tasks in the decisive moment.
    Siderlock is kind of funny. They may want to get someone to better translate their language to English. When you're selling a product, your pitch should not have grammatical errors.

  12. #12
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    The man could still conceal carry if he had an out of state permit accepted by Virginia, right? Unless of course the judge's order included an agreement not to conceal at all.

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    Spot on Mike. Of course the guys other CC permits may no longer be valid, depending on the laws of the other states that may have issued the permit.

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    The man could still conceal carry if he had an out of state permit accepted by Virginia, right? Unless of course the judge's order included an agreement not to conceal at all.
    Good point!
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by virginiatuck View Post
    How in the heck did this guy get his wallet and a Glock in the same pocket? He must have been wearing cargo pants.



    Precisely? You installed a manual safety on your Glock so that you could carry it in your pocket with your wallet?

    My Glock's "manual safety" is a Blackhawk Serpa holster.
    Here's my Glock's manual safety.....

    Last edited by ProShooter; 11-02-2010 at 01:03 PM.
    James Reynolds

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Here's my Glock's manual safety.....
    That explains a lot.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  17. #17
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Here's my Glock's manual safety.....

    An external safety, I thought these worked better installed.Name:  rofl.gif
Views: 338
Size:  1.3 KB

  18. #18
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    The man could still conceal carry if he had an out of state permit accepted by Virginia, right? Unless of course the judge's order included an agreement not to conceal at all.
    Since the GD court doesn't have the authority to revoke a permit I expect the order suspending his jail sentance says something like "may not carry a handgun...or may not carry a concealed handgun for a period of one year".

    If that's the case and he tries using an out of state permit, he'll get his quiet time with Bubba.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Since the GD court doesn't have the authority to revoke a permit I expect the order suspending his jail sentance says something like "may not carry a handgun...or may not carry a concealed handgun for a period of one year".

    If that's the case and he tries using an out of state permit, he'll get his quiet time with Bubba.
    If he has a Utah permit, I can almost promise you that they'll revoke it as well.
    James Reynolds

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    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenny View Post
    The guy pleaded guilty to reckless handling of a firearm. I doubt that he will appeal, unless he want to try and get his firearm back. T...
    I don't think he can get his firearm back, even in appeal. I will try to search some of the applicable laws and see if I can find any citations in regards to this. I actually feel safer that they took his 'toy' away. I think he was irresponsible, reckless and ignorant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nuc65 View Post
    I don't think he can get his firearm back, even in appeal. I will try to search some of the applicable laws and see if I can find any citations in regards to this. I actually feel safer that they took his 'toy' away. I think he was irresponsible, reckless and ignorant.
    If he could appeal he starts with a clean slate. GDC is a court not of record, so whatever happened is no more. When one pleads guilty that is pretty much it. I do not recall any pleas in GDC that were in fact appealed and the fact. His guilty plea was just an agreement between his attorney and the CA.

    I suppose one could appealed a plea agreement, again I have never seen or heard of that happening. Of course he could wake up one day and realize just how stupid he was and try for a do over. It will be interesting to see how the county where he resides (Bedford County) reacts, if at all to the conviction. I am sure it will come up when he goes to renew.

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenny View Post
    If he could appeal he starts with a clean slate. GDC is a court not of record, so whatever happened is no more. When one pleads guilty that is pretty much it. I do not recall any pleas in GDC that were in fact appealed and the fact. His guilty plea was just an agreement between his attorney and the CA.

    I suppose one could appealed a plea agreement, again I have never seen or heard of that happening. Of course he could wake up one day and realize just how stupid he was and try for a do over. It will be interesting to see how the county where he resides (Bedford County) reacts, if at all to the conviction. I am sure it will come up when he goes to renew.
    I think that once the plea is entered, part of it is that you give up the right to appeal. The guilty plea is an agreement between the person making the plea and the government.

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuc65 View Post
    I think that once the plea is entered, part of it is that you give up the right to appeal. The guilty plea is an agreement between the person making the plea and the government.
    I don't think so. I believe he has 10 days to withdraw his plea and appeal to Circuit for a new trial.

    My guess is that the Circuit Court would require a healthy appeal bond though.

    Of course, now that I've given everyone my legal opinion User will get on here and tell it the way it really is.

  24. #24
    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I don't think so. I believe he has 10 days to withdraw his plea and appeal to Circuit for a new trial.

    My guess is that the Circuit Court would require a healthy appeal bond though.

    Of course, now that I've given everyone my legal opinion User will get on here and tell it the way it really is.
    My understanding is based on circut court so I guess the General district courts are different?:
    (http://virginiacriminallawyers.vatra...-or-trial.html) in part...

    2. The attorney should make the client aware that by admitting or pleading guilty, the client waives important rights protected under the Constitution with respect to the alleged offense. Such rights include:

    * The right to remain silent
    * The right against self-incrimination
    * The right to have the attorney assist the client in the trial of the case
    * The right to cross-examine witnesses for the prosecution
    * The right to have witnesses testify on behalf of the defendant during the trial
    * The right to appeal the case if the guilty plea is entered in Circuit Court
    * The right to a trial by jury of twelve individuals in felony cases who are selected from the community and who must all find the accused guilty
    * The right to use the court to compel the production of documents and witnesses

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    You may be right Nuc. GD Court is different but honestly, I've never seen anyone plead guilty then change their mind and appeal.

    Like I said, User always gives the facts.

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