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Thread: I want to Open carry but..

  1. #1
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    I want to Open carry but..

    Hi...I hope I get some responses...I'm a 51 yr old law-abiding family man that lives in NorthEast PA...I have a CCW, but I also understand that Open carry is legal in PA without a CCW...I've been wanting to open carry , but I just know, that if I do, I'll be getting a visit from the local police, giving me a hard time, and telling me I'm doing the wrong thing. It's a law on the books that I think isn't honored. There's so many ways they can get away with harrassing you if they don't personally agree with Open Carry. I don't want to do anything to lose my right to conceal carry, and I feel that Open carry will or can somehow lead me down a road I don't want to travel. Why does it have to be this way? Why can't people see that if I'm open carrying, I must be legal, (and sane)...
    And lastly, if I do ever open carry, and I'm approached by police, how should I handle it? Frankie P

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    Two ways that I can think of for you to learn confidence. Join your local Friends of the NRA group, I imagine they'll want a Life Membership, to avoid waiting five years as an Associate Member to vote, but they'll take you out on an open carry strut right away. Or be a bit patient and read the PA forum here, ask questions there and make your own judgements. Good Luck & Best Wishes.

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    How to handle the approach by the police:

    1. Check PA law on recording in-person conversations. If you are allowed to tape an official conversation with a law enforcement officer (LEO), carry a recorder. I turn mine on when I leave the house. PA's tougher laws on recording may make that impractical. Check with the PA forum (it's on the main index, near the bottom, in the alphabetical listing of States) for a better reading on PA law.

    2. Be polite and rational--no matter how badly the LEO treats you or how emotional he gets or tries to get you.

    3. Be armed with the law. Check with your PA forum to see if there is an info-packed handout to give the LEO. If not, make sure you know the law well. You probably don't want to get into a back and forth with the LEO on the law. But, you want, with confidence, to be able to assert that your actions are lawful.

    4. Do not answer questions. Do not consent to any searches or seizures. Specifically say the words, "I do not consent to..., but I will not resist."

    5. Ask if you are free to go. Constantly. If he says yes, walk away. If he repeatedly does not answer, say, "Since you are not answering my question, I assume that I am free to go." Slowly start to leave. Be prepared to stop if he indicates that you may not leave.

    6. Know PA's identification laws. Can the LEO routinely stop you and ask for ID? Is he limited to just asking who you are, without requiring ID? Does he have to have reasonable articulable suspicion to stop you and ask for ID?

    7. No matter how well you handle the situation, the LEO may overstep his bounds under color of law. This has the potential of ruining your day. If you are willing to run the risk of a bad day, carry, do not consent to the LEO violating your rights, but do not resist. Anything wrong that happens can be fixed later (sometimes with a nice paycheck for you) except dead.

    I know that OC the first time is daunting. Just prepare and then do it. Keep preparing and carrying. Soon, you will find yourself confidently handling whatever comes up.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Welcome to OpenCarry.org, from another PA resident, and I've been OCing everywhere I can legally for several years now.

    For what this is worth, I've yet to have a negative encounter, including a very nice conversation with a York City PD cop!

    Although the responses you have received here so far are not from PA residents, their advice is very good and I agree completely.

    In addition to the PA sub-section of this forum, you can also check out another forum with many folks just like yourself, including a good number of NE PA people, at:

    www.pafoa.org

    If we were a little closer I'd gladly meet up with you for a couple OC trial runs to get your feet wet.

    Incidentally, your PA CCW is not a Concealed Carry permit at all. Look at it. It is a License To Carry Firearms. Furthermore, there is no "law in the books" regarding open carry in PA. The law is silent on open carry, therefore open carry is legal because there is no law against it. Laws are written to prohibit behavior, not to allow it.

    There are many folks in NEPA who have been OCing for years now. Many encounters have occurred with law enforcement, and the education has already begun. It is having it's effect. I have handed out over 150 Open Carry Flyers to folks strictly as a result of the positive encounter I have had!

    Good luck to you! I'm very glad to have you among us. While you are looking into carrying openly, consider developing your "OC nerve" while carrying concealed to get accustomed to going out armed in public. You are correct in being cautious, and it is sound wisdom to open carry when you are prepared for what MIGHT happen.
    While many claim to support the right to keep and bear arms, precious few support the practice.

  5. #5
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    "Why am I being detained?"

    I see so many people advocate ASKING if you are being detained. If the officer has stopped you, won't let you leave, is badgering you with questions and compelling you to answer; you are already detained.

    Asking IF just puts the ball in their court to be dodgy with. They will not answer that question, and why should they? They got schooled on how not to incriminate themselves, and how to get you to incriminate yourself.

    You already know you're being detained, so just ask why. You can see the fear in their eyes when they realize the line has already been crossed and their mind races to come up with the wording they will use to 'fix it in the report.'

    This presumes, of course, that for whatever reason, you feel compelled to play it a little hard-nosed. I hear tell that not all cops are traitors/dicks, so you may not feel like taking this route if you believe you have encountered one of these supposed non-traitor/non-dick cops...

    Remember, they don't need any reason at all to arrest you, just a good enough excuse to invoke Qualified/Sovereign Immunity to cover their own asses when they make false arrests. They aren't above arresting people for bogus charges that won't stick. They know it'll wreck your life even if/when the charges are dropped. So tread carefully if you choose to take the more 'activist' approach. I'm a glutton for civic duty (a.k.a. punishment), so consider the source...

    Just my $0.02

  6. #6
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    We all have these same misgivings when we first start OCing. We've been brainwashed by Concealed Carry instructors, the media, and LEOs that if we, as non-badged citizens DARE to exercise out 2A rights in public, people will run screaming, children will burst into tears, and small animals will scurry for cover...

    Nothing could be further from the truth in most parts of this nation.

    I've OCed in PA many times. I have a NC CHP and a PA non-resident LTCF, but I OC most of the time at home, so why should I do anything different in another state--especially when it's a state where OC is also legal?

    I've OCed all over the Newcastle/Butler area. I've OCed in rest stops on the PA Turnpike. I've OCed in Washington, Breezewood, and even in Pittsburgh.

    And not once, has it been an issue. No screaming babies, no panicked soccer moms, and no flashing blue lights...

    If you want to OC, and it's legal where you live, then the ONLY way to get over your misgivings, and break through the brainwashing is to DO IT. The first few times,it will be a HUGE rush. The act of openly carrying the firearm you've "hid under a bushel" for all those years is liberating, exciting, and a little scary. But once you've done it a few times and the sky HASN'T fallen down, you'll wonder why you didn't do it this way a LONG time ago...

    And besides, you get MUCH better service in stores and restaurants when you OC...

    Good luck, and be safe...

    Oh, and one more thing... Buy a small digital voice recorder, just in case some local LEO decides to give you a hard time. Nothing is more satisfying than providing a recording of an LEO who is blatantly breaking the law, violating your rights, or lying through his teeth, when defending yourself in Court...

    And BTW, PA is, with regards to oral communications in public (with no "reasonable expectation of privacy") a 1-party consent state, so recording a conversation in public--even with an LEO--is perfectly legal...

    http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-gui...-recording-law
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  7. #7
    Regular Member zhangman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    Welcome to OpenCarry.org, from another PA resident, and I've been OCing everywhere I can legally for several years now.

    For what this is worth, I've yet to have a negative encounter, including a very nice conversation with a York City PD cop!

    Although the responses you have received here so far are not from PA residents, their advice is very good and I agree completely.

    In addition to the PA sub-section of this forum, you can also check out another forum with many folks just like yourself, including a good number of NE PA people, at:

    www.pafoa.org

    If we were a little closer I'd gladly meet up with you for a couple OC trial runs to get your feet wet.

    Incidentally, your PA CCW is not a Concealed Carry permit at all. Look at it. It is a License To Carry Firearms. Furthermore, there is no "law in the books" regarding open carry in PA. The law is silent on open carry, therefore open carry is legal because there is no law against it. Laws are written to prohibit behavior, not to allow it.

    There are many folks in NEPA who have been OCing for years now. Many encounters have occurred with law enforcement, and the education has already begun. It is having it's effect. I have handed out over 150 Open Carry Flyers to folks strictly as a result of the positive encounter I have had!

    Good luck to you! I'm very glad to have you among us. While you are looking into carrying openly, consider developing your "OC nerve" while carrying concealed to get accustomed to going out armed in public. You are correct in being cautious, and it is sound wisdom to open carry when you are prepared for what MIGHT happen.

    I too appreciate everybody's input. I am originally from PA but presently reside in GA. Now, in GA to CCW, you better have a GFL(Georgia Firearms License) in your possession. To OC you actually do not need a permit. I do concur that it is very daunting to OC, but you do get used to it and at times you might tend to forget the fact that you have a weapon on you.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    You might want to read your GA law again, my friend, because you are mistaken.
    Exactly, and specifically: "Georgia is not a traditional open carry state. However, open carry IS legal with a Georgia permit." - Source

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    Last edited by since9; 11-10-2010 at 04:16 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    How to handle the approach by the police:

    1. Check PA law on recording in-person conversations. If you are allowed to tape an official conversation with a law enforcement officer (LEO), carry a recorder. I turn mine on when I leave the house. PA's tougher laws on recording may make that impractical. Check with the PA forum (it's on the main index, near the bottom, in the alphabetical listing of States) for a better reading on PA law.

    2. Be polite and rational--no matter how badly the LEO treats you or how emotional he gets or tries to get you.

    3. Be armed with the law. Check with your PA forum to see if there is an info-packed handout to give the LEO. If not, make sure you know the law well. You probably don't want to get into a back and forth with the LEO on the law. But, you want, with confidence, to be able to assert that your actions are lawful.

    4. Do not answer questions. Do not consent to any searches or seizures. Specifically say the words, "I do not consent to..., but I will not resist."

    5. Ask if you are free to go. Constantly. If he says yes, walk away. If he repeatedly does not answer, say, "Since you are not answering my question, I assume that I am free to go." Slowly start to leave. Be prepared to stop if he indicates that you may not leave.

    6. Know PA's identification laws. Can the LEO routinely stop you and ask for ID? Is he limited to just asking who you are, without requiring ID? Does he have to have reasonable articulable suspicion to stop you and ask for ID?

    7. No matter how well you handle the situation, the LEO may overstep his bounds under color of law. This has the potential of ruining your day. If you are willing to run the risk of a bad day, carry, do not consent to the LEO violating your rights, but do not resist. Anything wrong that happens can be fixed later (sometimes with a nice paycheck for you) except dead.

    I know that OC the first time is daunting. Just prepare and then do it. Keep preparing and carrying. Soon, you will find yourself confidently handling whatever comes up.



    absolutly 100%correct know your laws and always carry a phone with camera and voice or a recorder.

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    And that's worst case scenario. You may get waved at, talked to like a human being, or enjoy some gun talk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    How to handle the approach by the police:

    1. Check PA law on recording in-person conversations. If you are allowed to tape an official conversation with a law enforcement officer (LEO), carry a recorder. I turn mine on when I leave the house. PA's tougher laws on recording may make that impractical. Check with the PA forum (it's on the main index, near the bottom, in the alphabetical listing of States) for a better reading on PA law.

    2. Be polite and rational--no matter how badly the LEO treats you or how emotional he gets or tries to get you.

    3. Be armed with the law. Check with your PA forum to see if there is an info-packed handout to give the LEO. If not, make sure you know the law well. You probably don't want to get into a back and forth with the LEO on the law. But, you want, with confidence, to be able to assert that your actions are lawful.

    4. Do not answer questions. Do not consent to any searches or seizures. Specifically say the words, "I do not consent to..., but I will not resist."

    5. Ask if you are free to go. Constantly. If he says yes, walk away. If he repeatedly does not answer, say, "Since you are not answering my question, I assume that I am free to go." Slowly start to leave. Be prepared to stop if he indicates that you may not leave.

    6. Know PA's identification laws. Can the LEO routinely stop you and ask for ID? Is he limited to just asking who you are, without requiring ID? Does he have to have reasonable articulable suspicion to stop you and ask for ID?

    7. No matter how well you handle the situation, the LEO may overstep his bounds under color of law. This has the potential of ruining your day. If you are willing to run the risk of a bad day, carry, do not consent to the LEO violating your rights, but do not resist. Anything wrong that happens can be fixed later (sometimes with a nice paycheck for you) except dead.

    I know that OC the first time is daunting. Just prepare and then do it. Keep preparing and carrying. Soon, you will find yourself confidently handling whatever comes up.
    One thing I'd suggest changing: Am I free to go.
    You can get a no to this and still a denial of being detained.
    Why not use: Am I being detained?
    That way if you get a no you can just say: Thank you, I'll be on my way now.
    If at that point the officer tells you that you cannot leave then you've just confirmed that you ARE being detained, even if the LEO says you're not. If you're not free to go, you're being detained.

    After my experience with the Columbus, Ga PD I strongly suggest you have your State's law(s) on the matter printed out and readily available in some fashion. I carry a pocket Constitution as well. It's impossible for them to dispute anything when you have the law in your hands, especially if you wind up having to go to court and inform the judge or jury that you even offered up the law that you had printed out from an official State website.

    Remember 2 major LEO contact rules. Everything YOU say can and will be used against you in a court of law. Anything the LEO says is deemed hearsay and is inadmissable in court unless it's been recorded.


    Cool, calm, collected, and professional attitude will work magic with LEOs. And by all means, if a LEO doesn't seem to know/understand the law on the matter and is receptive to you showing them what you found and printed then do so if they ask...remember, if you're wrong it can be used to incriminate you. It might just prevent an issue for someone else...you might also just find some common ground with that LEO as a result.
    Last edited by heresyourdipstickjimmy; 11-21-2010 at 07:47 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    One Party consent States

    The 37 states which allow “one party consent” recording of oral communications are:

    Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

    The above is per the following website:

    http://www.a1-hiddencamera.com/Artic...rdingLaws.html

    I suggest that you take the time to verify the law in your state.

    I know that the states I am most likely to be in are on the above list.

    For some reason Arizona is not listed above. It's statutes are here as copied from a non-state website:

    Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 13-3005: Interception of a wire or electronic communication by an individual who is not a party, without the consent of someone who is a party to the communication, is a felony. The electronic communications referred to in the statute include wireless and cellular calls. The overhearing of a conversation by an individual who is not present, without the consent of a party to that conversation, is also a felony. Both violations are classified as "class 5" felonies, which are the second least serious felonies in Arizona.

    Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of "oral communication," Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 13-3001.

    A state appellate court has held that a criminal defendant's contention that police officers violated this law by recording their interviews with him without his consent was meritless because the defendant had no reasonable expectation of privacy in a police interview room. Arizona v. Hauss, 688 P.2d 1051 (Ariz. Ct. App. 1984).

    In addition, a state appellate court has held that a mother who had a good-faith belief that it was necessary and in the best interests of her child may consent to taping the child's conversation with an alleged child molester. State v. Morrison, 56 P.3d 63 (App. Div. 1 2002).

    It is unlawful for a person to photograph or film a person without consent while the person is in a restroom, locker room, bathroom or bedroom or is undressed or involved in sexual activity. Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 13-3019.

    The first site I listed also says be VERY careful in Nevada.
    Last edited by OldCurlyWolf; 11-22-2010 at 11:08 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    The 37 states which allow “one party consent” recording of oral communications are:

    Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

    The above is per the following website:

    http://www.a1-hiddencamera.com/Artic...rdingLaws.html

    I suggest that you take the time to verify the law in your state.

    I know that the states I am most likely to be in are on the above list.
    Based on 13A-11-30 and 31, I'd conclude that Alabama is a one-party State, but it didn't make the list.
    Last edited by eye95; 11-22-2010 at 11:15 PM. Reason: Corrected the code references to 30 and 31, vice 31 and 32

  14. #14
    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Based on 13A-11-31 and 32, I'd conclude that Alabama is a one-party State, but it didn't make the list.
    Per this site:

    http://www.divorceinvestigations.com...recording.html

    you are correct.

    These are the statutes and rulings they post:

    Alabama Law: One Party Consent

    Ala. Code § 13A-11-30, -31: Unlawful eavesdropping is defined as the overhearing or recording of the contents of a private communication without the consent of at least one person engaged in the communication. The statute has been interpreted as creating a right to privacy in communications — specifically, a right not to have communications overheard, recorded or disclosed without consent. Ages Group v. Raytheon Aircraft Co., 22 F. Supp. 2d 1310 (M.D. Ala. 1998).

    Criminal eavesdropping involves the intentional use of "any device" to overhear or record communications, whether the eavesdropper is present or not, without one party's consent. Criminal eavesdropping is a misdemeanor. Ala. Code § 13A-11-31. Knowingly divulging information obtained through illegal eavesdropping is a misdemeanor as well. Ala. Code § 13A-11-35. Misdemeanors in Alabama carry a maximum jail sentence of one year. Ala. Code § 13A-1-2.

    While hidden cameras are not expressly addressed, it is a misdemeanor to engage in "criminal surveillance," defined as secret observation or photography while trespassing on private property. Criminal surveillance does not include observation on a public street. Ala. Code § 13A-11-32.

    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

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  15. #15
    Regular Member AngryBiker's Avatar
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    Alabama

    Howdy, y'all. I'm new to this site and I have a question for the Alabama residents. I have held a CCW in Alabama for over 20 years and on my permit it states clearly that "this does not permit you to carry a gun openly as an officer". I read elsewhere that Alabama is a 'traditional open-carry state'. I'm a little confused. Can somebody clear this up for me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryBiker View Post
    Howdy, y'all. I'm new to this site and I have a question for the Alabama residents. I have held a CCW in Alabama for over 20 years and on my permit it states clearly that "this does not permit you to carry a gun openly as an officer". I read elsewhere that Alabama is a 'traditional open-carry state'. I'm a little confused. Can somebody clear this up for me?
    Try the AL section for more detail.

    the short answer is AL sheriffs put that on there for one of two reasons. To fool you into thinking OC is illegal when in fact it is completely unregulated by the state. To let you know that you can not carry AS AN OFFICER just because you got the CPL. I've heard that once they used to issue a similar looking piece of paper deputizing people and this comment could be to make clear that the CPL is not this.

    or maybe that was the long answer...

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryBiker View Post
    Howdy, y'all. I'm new to this site and I have a question for the Alabama residents. I have held a CCW in Alabama for over 20 years and on my permit it states clearly that "this does not permit you to carry a gun openly as an officer". I read elsewhere that Alabama is a 'traditional open-carry state'. I'm a little confused. Can somebody clear this up for me?
    Your sheriff is trying to give you the impression that he has the authority to prevent you from open carrying. He does not. Under Alabama State law, only the legislature may make laws relative to the possession and carry of firearms. This is called preemption.

    If you read the sentence carefully, you'll notice that he is not telling you that you may not carry, only that the permit does not give you permission to OC. It doesn't have to. There is no law against OC and there are AL Supreme Court decisions and Attorney General opinions clearly stating that OC without any permit is lawful (just not in your car).

    Caveat (BIG caveat): Your sheriff can yank your permit at will. So, even though he cannot stop you from OCing, he can make it difficult by yanking your permit and leaving you with a problem when you need to drive someplace.

    Stop by the Alabama forum at the bottom of the index for more info. Or, you can join us Alabama Open Carriers at ALOC.info

  18. #18
    Regular Member AngryBiker's Avatar
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    Thanks, eye. I have registered with the NAOC and will be attending their meeting this Saturday. I'm a law-abiding citizen and Sheriff Dorning is a pro Second Amendment guy so I don't anticipate getting my permit yanked anytime soon. I'd be more worried about HPD. I'm still not sure I want to walk around with my Glock hanging out in front of God and everybody but it's nice to know that if my slip's showing I'm not likely to go to the hoosegow for it. I can just see folks in Kroger crapping their drawers while I'm pushing my buggy down the isle strapped like Wyatt Earp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryBiker View Post
    Thanks, eye. I have registered with the NAOC and will be attending their meeting this Saturday. I'm a law-abiding citizen and Sheriff Dorning is a pro Second Amendment guy so I don't anticipate getting my permit yanked anytime soon. I'd be more worried about HPD. I'm still not sure I want to walk around with my Glock hanging out in front of God and everybody but it's nice to know that if my slip's showing I'm not likely to go to the hoosegow for it. I can just see folks in Kroger crapping their drawers while I'm pushing my buggy down the isle strapped like Wyatt Earp.
    HPD can't yank your license--unless an officer goes rogue and physically takes it away from you because you had it on you.

    Don't walk around OCing with your CPL on you. Leave it in the car. I leave my DL in the car too. There is no requirement to produce ID for officers. Listen to the recording from my second stop. The officers tried to pull every trick in the book. I knew the law and fell for none of them. The only recourse they had was to break the law themselves--on tape. They wisely chose not to do that.

  20. #20
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryBiker View Post
    I'm still not sure I want to walk around with my Glock hanging out in front of God and everybody
    ::giggling:: It's late, I'm tired, it's been a while...
    Keep in mind the favorite canard about guns suuposedly compensating for underendowment (for men), then re-read that line.

    I can just see folks in Kroger crapping their drawers while I'm pushing my buggy down the isle strapped like Wyatt Earp.
    Another lie perpetuated by the anti's. We've got a nice collection of videos showing nothing at all happening while people OC. I'll send you the link to one of me at my bank (it has to stay unpublised until after the Court reviews the whole lot of them).
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    Allentown, PA just got slapped HARD for harassing someone for OC'ing, so I don't think it's going to be as much of a problem again in PA for a while now.

  22. #22
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    Alabama
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    4
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    ::giggling:: It's late, I'm tired, it's been a while...
    Keep in mind the favorite canard about guns suuposedly compensating for underendowment (for men), then re-read that line.


    Another lie perpetuated by the anti's. We've got a nice collection of videos showing nothing at all happening while people OC. I'll send you the link to one of me at my bank (it has to stay unpublised until after the Court reviews the whole lot of them).
    LOL, MKEgal, you busted me and my double entendre. I wouldn't have a problem with open carry, I'm just not sure I want to put up with harassment from the local LEOs.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Alabama, ,
    Posts
    41
    Welcome to the forum. All the previous comments on your post are accurate and true.
    Please feel free to exercise any desire you have to shop, dine, car wash, hike, garden, jog ,bike ride etc. while wearing any handgun or handguns of your choice here in Alabama. You won't feel comfortable doing so until you get your feet wet and just do it.
    Enjoy the freedom and enjoyment of shopping for different holsters to compliment your chosen attire for the day.
    The way women have for years tried to match shoes and purses, we now can match shoes, holsters, belts, ammo pouches etc. Can get a bit expensive, but the more you look all together, the better you will feel about yourself and the less likely you will even encounter a question. You might very well get a compliment from one of us savvy aficionados of guns and their accessories.
    Bottom line is, you are in the right by open carrying in Alabama. So carry with confidence. Confidence and self assuredness can be seen and felt from a hundred yards away. So can politeness and a smile. Don't forget to use both.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by heresyourdipstickjimmy View Post
    One thing I'd suggest changing: Am I free to go.
    You can get a no to this and still a denial of being detained.
    Why not use: Am I being detained?
    That way if you get a no you can just say: Thank you, I'll be on my way now.
    If at that point the officer tells you that you cannot leave then you've just confirmed that you ARE being detained, even if the LEO says you're not. If you're not free to go, you're being detained.
    Excellent advice! I'll have to remember that.

    Remember 2 major LEO contact rules. Everything YOU say can and will be used against you in a court of law. Anything the LEO says is deemed hearsay and is inadmissable in court unless it's been recorded.
    Also good advice, although technically, "heresay" simply refers to second-hand information i.e. "Joe told me that Terry did/said..." Eyewitness information is first-hand information, not heresay. The attorney working for the law enforcement office will attempt to get anything and everything you say dismissed as heresay. Just counter any such objection with "Your honor, this is an eyewitness account." Make sure you're under oath in court before you offer it up, however. Regardless, it can easily be dismissed by the judge if the LEO counters with "I did not...", so the recorder is your ticket out of the loosing they said, you said battle.

    Cool, calm, collected, and professional attitude will work magic with LEOs.
    This works well with a lot of people, in all kinds of situations!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
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    Apr 2009
    Location
    Levittown, Pennsylvania, USA
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    PA Gun RIghts

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