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Armed at work(secretly)

mFonz77

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
265
Location
Sierra Vista, AZ
From an OPSEC standpoint I would suggest never posting that many details again if it involves lawbreaking, even if it is the "letter of the law." IIRC most malls are owned by the same entities (or if they don't I'm sure they compare notes), so I would not be surprised if in the near future Tucson mall guards are "randomly" called in for "inspections" because some lurker tipped them off.
 

crisisweasel

Newbie
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
265
Location
Pima County, Arizona, USA
If you went to any mall in Arizona where guns are prohibited, and you could somehow determine via some kind of sensor how many people were carrying guns anyway in complete violation of the posted policy, I suspect it would be shocking.

I say this to people wigged out about the very concept of concealed carry: do you have any clue how many thousands of armed people you have probably walked by in the past year without incident? How often you were daydreaming on a park bench and people with guns are just walking by? How often you're having a nice sandwich at a cafe sitting right next to a guy with a gun and don't know it?
 

AnderJaspo

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
15
Location
Arizona
I'm in the same boat

However, I'll be a little less specific about my place of employment. I'll just say "midnight-weekend shifts at a gas station in a major urban city within Arizona." My employers don't want me carrying either, and I would be fired if they found out.

One question I have for those reading my post; What are some of the possible legal consequences for carrying a firearm in my place of employment when it isn't allowed?

I've scoured the internet looking for related stories and incidents but haven't found much, at least not within AZ. It seems to me that the legal consequences would be minimal, if there were any at all, because carrying a firearm isn't a crime, and Jglock and I here are technically agents of our respective properties at which we work.

Also, when it comes to trespassing on private property with a firearm, the letter of the law almost always seems to read... well, let me just post an excerpt from ARS 13-3102.

"10. Unless specifically authorized by law, entering any public establishment or attending any public event and carrying a deadly weapon on his person after a reasonable request by the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event or the sponsor's agent to remove his weapon and place it in the custody of the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event for temporary and secure storage of the weapon pursuant to section 13-3102.01; or..."

"B. Subsection A, paragraph 2 of this section shall not apply to:

1. A person in his dwelling, on his business premises or on real property owned or leased by that person or that person's parent, grandparent or legal guardian."

IANAL, but that is how it seems to me. Either way, I'm carrying at work! Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6!
 

Ivan Sample

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
295
Location
Louisville, Kentucky, USA
I will have to agree with the majority of the board. Please don't advertise where you work at because there could be employers reading this board. I am in a similar situation and my work says don't carry, then I don't carry. Someone said it best "Jobs are hard to come by". Especially with the way the economy is in this day of age. But you are a grown person and you make your own decisions-just be ready to suffer the consequences if you get caught. I wish you well and hope that you never have to use it. But if you do-I'd rather for you to go home safe to your family and the other person (s) to the morgue!
 

mFonz77

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
265
Location
Sierra Vista, AZ
One question I have for those reading my post; What are some of the possible legal consequences for carrying a firearm in my place of employment when it isn't allowed?

Unless you are working in a prohibited place (school, nuclear power plant) , there is nothing criminal you can be charged with other than trespassing. (IANAL - there might be some other things like "suspicion of mischief" or any of those other less "bs" charges).

However, you can be fired pretty much instantly. So at that point it comes down to your own ethics/morals/etc... Whatever you do, be safe!
 

JoeGlock40

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
119
Location
tucson/marana , az
i would but a company has to sponser you to get a armed guard card and my company along with many others dont want to do that unless you work at a post that you need to be armed and their are very few posts in tucson that are armed cuz the sheep in tucson think nothin bad is gona happen and that a unarmed guard will be good enough even tho he cant do anything to protect anyone...its a bunch of bs, trust me, many guard have tryed for years
 

rickc1962

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Messages
192
Location
Battle Mountain, NV.
i would but a company has to sponser you to get a armed guard card and my company along with many others dont want to do that unless you work at a post that you need to be armed and their are very few posts in tucson that are armed cuz the sheep in tucson think nothin bad is gona happen and that a unarmed guard will be good enough even tho he cant do anything to protect anyone...its a bunch of bs, trust me, many guard have tryed for years

I believe guards should be armed, but the good news is sence there not, here in Az. the rest of us are!
 

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
I was in Fort Wayne, IN over the weekend and visited one of the malls there. I could not believe the "security guards" were unarmed. :eek: :confused:
 

chrsjhnsn

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
338
Location
La Paz county, Arizona.
I don't know who told you that

i would but a company has to sponser you to get a armed guard card and my company along with many others dont want to do that unless you work at a post that you need to be armed and their are very few posts in tucson that are armed cuz the sheep in tucson think nothin bad is gona happen and that a unarmed guard will be good enough even tho he cant do anything to protect anyone...its a bunch of bs, trust me, many guard have tryed for years

but I've worked as an armed guard in CA and NV and in both places its entirely possible to get the necessary accreditation by yourself and then go for the job. I can't imagine AZ would be worse than CA. Don't take whoever told you that as gospel, insist that they show you the legal code that prohibits a private citizen from getting an armed guard card in AZ
 

Dahwg

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
661
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
Joe, hate to say it but you're in violation of state law by carrying at work.

ARS 32-2624 C
C. A security guard employee may not possess or carry a firearm while on official duty unless the employee is currently registered as an armed security guard and is authorized by the person's employer to possess or carry the firearm.
 

JoeGlock40

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
119
Location
tucson/marana , az
ya i saw that lil law Dahwg when i got hired before...but if the crap really hit the fan i dont think the cops or DA would be drilling the books to find that one out unless i really was me who was the BG..but its ok i changedjobs ...i cant say where i went for obvious reasons cuz then anyone where i did work would know who if they saw this...but like they say its better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6
 
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Grimes

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
132
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Sorry to say this, but they will and do prosecute people for breaking the law, even though it might have done good.

You can really get into a lot of trouble for it.

If by chance you do need to use your firearm. One, you will lose your job. Second, the cops and DA will look for anything that might have been illegal during the incident, including you carrying without the armed guard card. You will get in trouble for it.


Do you work for T.E.A.M. by chance. I know they are one of the bigger security companies in Phoenix.
 
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jeremy05

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
426
Location
Arizona, ,
I would suggest you carry under the dont ask dont tell. When I was in HS/College doing security it was kind of a un written policy at some of the places.

You will be fired, but alive to be fired! So screw it.
 

Dahwg

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
661
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
I would suggest you carry under the dont ask dont tell. When I was in HS/College doing security it was kind of a un written policy at some of the places.

You will be fired, but alive to be fired! So screw it.

Alive and in jail though. For some that may not be a good trade-off. Patrick Henry's famous quote, "Give me liberty or give me death" reverberates with many Americans for a reason.

If you are working at a job that puts you in unreasonable peril without the opportunity to adequately defend yourself, then you're in the wrong job. I suggest finding a new one.
 

sharkey

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
1,064
Location
Arizona
Joe, hate to say it but you're in violation of state law by carrying at work.

ARS 32-2624 C
C. A security guard employee may not possess or carry a firearm while on official duty unless the employee is currently registered as an armed security guard and is authorized by the person's employer to possess or carry the firearm.

I was gonna look up the statute but you already did it.
 

Badger Johnson

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
1,213
Location
USA
Secret carry

What kind of non-lethal protection do you carry? Mace/OC, tactical flashlight, baton? IMO, it's good to have a backup for more serious threats, but it's also a good idea to have non-lethal means at your disposal so you have options NOT to pull your piece.

For the group:
As far as CC in non-approved places, does it make sense to disarm yourself in any place where they don't have metal detectors?

Let's say your girlfriend is going into the post office to check the PO box. Should she disarm? Into the secured area in an Airport, yes. Into a drinking establishment where you're not drinking?

$.02
 

coorsleftfield

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2011
Messages
57
Location
Phoenix, AZ
20 years ago I worked mall security at the now closed Boulder mall in Boulder, Colorado. Back then, Colorado had no shall-issue CCW permits, and it was basically impossible to get one.

I carried a G23 when working security at night (without telling my employer of course). Colorado had a law on the books that said something to the effect of, you can carry a concealed weapon on "at your place of business or property under your control" Since I was security I interpreted this as I was good to go since I was on property under my control, almost the definition of a being security on the property. I typically didn't carry until after the mall was closed and I was on my own.

I think legally you have no problem, you're not breaking any laws. You'll just need a new job if your employer finds out, and can prove it.
 

Dahwg

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
661
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
20 years ago I worked mall security at the now closed Boulder mall in Boulder, Colorado. Back then, Colorado had no shall-issue CCW permits, and it was basically impossible to get one.

I carried a G23 when working security at night (without telling my employer of course). Colorado had a law on the books that said something to the effect of, you can carry a concealed weapon on "at your place of business or property under your control" Since I was security I interpreted this as I was good to go since I was on property under my control, almost the definition of a being security on the property. I typically didn't carry until after the mall was closed and I was on my own.

I think legally you have no problem, you're not breaking any laws. You'll just need a new job if your employer finds out, and can prove it.

Incorrect.

ARS 32-2624 C
C. A security guard employee may not possess or carry a firearm while on official duty unless the employee is currently registered as an armed security guard and is authorized by the person's employer to possess or carry the firearm.
 
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