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Thread: 'Constitutional carry' in Evergreen State?

  1. #1
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    'Constitutional carry' in Evergreen State?

    Is it time in Washington for ‘constitutional carry?’


    "...How many millions of dollars might there be at stake if the state got out of the CPL business? Give this a little thought. Under current law, out of a renewal fee, $15 goes to the state general fund. $14 goes to the “issuing authority” (your local police or sheriff’s department) and $3 goes to the “firearms range account in the general fund.” There are about 260,000 CPLs in circulation, and more are being issued every day. They're renewable every five years. Do the math..."

    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...tutional-carry

    Or try this:

    http://tinyurl.com/2ecfz26

  2. #2
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Well past time if you ask me.

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    But, how would the police verify one is not a felon when stopped for carrying?

    Sorry Tom, couldn't resist. LOL

  4. #4
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Don't we already have "Constitutional Carry" provided for in the State Constitution under Art. 1, Sec. 24? It just seems like the State hasn't been told by the Courts that it is so, yet.

    BTW, on the note of the $3 for "Range Fund" where are they spending this? When was a range opened that received any grant money from this fund. Or is it being "raided" by politicians for their personal "pork projects"?
    Last edited by amlevin; 11-02-2010 at 06:10 PM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Don't we already have "Constitutional Carry" provided for in the State Constitution under Art. 1, Sec. 24? It just seems like the State hasn't been told by the Courts that it is so, yet.

    BTW, on the note of the $3 for "Range Fund" where are they spending this? When was a range opened that received any grant money from this fund. Or is it being "raided" by politicians for their personal "pork projects"?
    + (insert some random high number here)

    The problem is that LAWS have been made that seem to "supersede" or at least "define" the Constitution(s).

    No where in the Constitution (US at least) does it say anything about "reasonable regulation" or anything even close.

    As a matter of fact one COULD argue that "reasonable regulation" is a TENTH amendment violation....

    Of course it would never be affirmed or ruled for, but that is what I get out of it at least....


    On a side note how many people know that the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act was declared unconstitutional in regards to the 10A?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printz_v._United_States
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
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    AZ is not true constitutional carry in the absolute, most liberally-applied sense of the term. While I was in AZ a month ago, I met up with a friend of mine who just left the Maricopa Co. SD, and is a certified 'gun-guy' and spent a day going shooting at Scottsdale Gun Club and chatting about guns, etc... He boiled it down to this:

    No permit for OC or CC while on foot or in one's own vehicle in public or on one's own property. NO OC is allowed in a bar or in a restaurant that has a bar area, and a permit is necessary to CC while inside one of these establishments. Were it 'true' Constitutional carry, no permit would be necessary to go to Applebee's, etc... and any type of carry would be accepted.

    I still think that 'requiring' the permit is hogwash, but until we have complete reciprocity and Constitutional carry in all states EQUALLY, we will still have to deal with it, I guess. Good article, as usual Dave.

    -G20

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G20-IWB24/7 View Post

    No permit for OC or CC while on foot or in one's own vehicle in public or on one's own property. NO OC is allowed in a bar or in a restaurant that has a bar area, and a permit is necessary to CC while inside one of these establishments. Were it 'true' Constitutional carry, no permit would be necessary to go to Applebee's, etc... and any type of carry would be accepted.
    Can we get a cite from actual law on this please? I was under the impression that EITHER OC or CC was permitted with a permit in Applebees, et al.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    + (insert some random high number here)

    The problem is that LAWS have been made that seem to "supersede" or at least "define" the Constitution(s).

    No where in the Constitution (US at least) does it say anything about "reasonable regulation" or anything even close.

    As a matter of fact one COULD argue that "reasonable regulation" is a TENTH amendment violation....

    Of course it would never be affirmed or ruled for, but that is what I get out of it at least....


    On a side note how many people know that the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act was declared unconstitutional in regards to the 10A?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printz_v._United_States
    Sheriff Mack has a couple of books on the subject. But purchasing them will probably put you on some "list".. lol.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Lante's Avatar
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    Range Fund answer

    BTW, on the note of the $3 for "Range Fund" where are they spending this? When was a range opened that received any grant money from this fund. Or is it being "raided" by politicians for their personal "pork projects"?[/QUOTE]

    I asked the state Treasurer about this and found out that it is the department of recreation and conservation that handles this. Here is their reply.



    Thank you for your e-mail about the Firearm and Archery Range Recreation program.

    I have attached a spreadsheet that shows which organizations received grant funding since fiscal year 2004. Money for the Firearm and Archery Range Recreation grant program does not come from the general fund but from a portion ($3) of each concealed pistol license permit fee through the capital budget. So no general fund dollars were spent on this program.

    We have about $640,000 in unspent funds for this program. Applicants are applying this month for those grants, which will be awarded next year.

    To tell which year the grant was requested, look at the project number on the spreadsheet. The first two numbers indicate when the grant recipient applied for the grant. If you have any other questions, feel free to contact me.

    Thank you.

    Susan Zemek
    Communications Manager
    Recreation and Conservation Office
    1111 Washington ST SE
    Olympia WA 98501

    Mailing Address
    PO Box 40917
    Olympia WA 98504
    (360) 902-3081
    TDD (360) 902-1996
    susan.zemek@rco.wa.gov


    Project Number Project Type Project Name Grant Recipient Status Grant Amount Grant Recipient
    Match Total
    2003‐1128 D Skeet Field and Five‐Stand Overlay Central WA Range Conservancy Completed $25,868 $25,868 $51,736
    2003‐1134 D Jefferson Co Sportsman Range Improvement Jefferson Co Sportsmans Assn Completed $28,415 $28,416 $56,831
    2003‐1140 D Plantation Range Containment Wall Whatcom County Parks & Rec Completed $50,000 $37,922 $87,922
    2003‐1154 D Metaline Falls Gun Club Development Metaline Falls Gun Club Completed $24,404 $24,404 $48,809
    2003‐1156 D Rifle Line Re‐orientation & Sound Cover Kitsap Rifle and Revolver Club Completed $46,965 $24,893 $71,858
    2003‐1164 D Pistol Range Project Cascade Rifle & Pistol Club Completed $47,470 $75,506 $122,976
    2005‐1012 D Range Administration Bldg Development Seattle Skeet and Trap Club Completed $50,000 $92,750 $142,750
    2005‐1049 D KBH Archers Site Improvements KBH Archers Completed $50,000 $52,762 $102,762
    2005‐1252 D Plantation Range Target Carrier Up‐Grade Whatcom County of Completed $55,406 $55,406 $110,811
    2005‐1294 D Safety Fence and Facilities Enhancement Cascade Rifle & Pistol Club Completed $38,293 $47,790 $86,083
    2007‐1213 D Cowlitz County Shooting Range Phase 1 Cowlitz Game and Anglers Active $129,990 $132,069 $262,059
    2007‐1236 D BISC Pistol Range Upgrade Bainbridge Island Sportsmen's Active $57,957 $52,043 $110,000
    2007‐1287 D Spokane Gun Club Renovation Spokane Gun Club Active $70,000 $70,000 $140,000
    2007‐1289 D Custer Range Fence Custer Sportsmens Club Completed $27,664 $14,725 $42,389
    2007‐1339 D Marlin Gun Club Phase 1 Marlin Gun Club Active $51,722 $48,278 $100,000
    2007‐1377 D Safety Fence and Access Enhancement Seattle Skeet and Trap Club Active $41,500 $31,500 $73,000
    2007‐1396 D South Boundary Fence Spokane Rifle Club Inc Completed $8,820 $4,545 $13,365
    2007‐1399 D CSC Berm Improvements Custer Sportsmens Club Completed $15,357 $7,912 $23,269
    2007‐1455 D BISC Public Archery Range Bainbridge Island Sportsmen's Active $41,000 $50,100 $91,100
    2007‐1470 D NCSC Rifle Range Improvement, Phase 1 North Cascades Sportsmen Club Completed $21,492 $11,355 $32,847
    2007‐1511 D Issaquah Range and Safety Improvement Issaquah Sportsmens Club Active $21,062 $13,231 $34,293
    2009‐1204 D TCSA Hunter Education Range Tri‐Cities Shooting Assn Inc Active $23,986 $32,438 $56,424
    2009‐1376 D Walla Walla Gun Club Renovation Ph II Walla Walla Gun Club Completed $22,718 $22,718 $45,435
    2009‐1412 D Silver Arrow Bowmen Range Improvements Silver Arrow Bowmen Active $49,727 $41,943 $91,670
    2009‐1430 D KRRC Utilities and Restrooms Kitsap Rifle and Revolver Club Funded $50,000 $59,000 $109,000
    2009‐1434 D Roadway Improvement, Phase 2 North Cascades Sportsmen Club Active $42,550 $51,040 $93,590
    2009‐1436 D Evergreen Sportsmen's Club Sporting Clays Evergreen Sportsmens Club Active $26,847 $26,843 $53,690
    2009‐1555 D Sporting Clays Improvements 09 Seattle Skeet and Trap Club Active $50,000 $53,835 $103,835
    2009‐1737 D Evergreen Sportsmen's Club ‐ Restroom Renovation Evergreen Sportsmens Club Active $34,871 $36,294 $71,165
    $1,204,085 $1,225,585 $2,429,670

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    Quote Originally Posted by G20-IWB24/7 View Post
    AZ is not true constitutional carry in the absolute, most liberally-applied sense of the term. While I was in AZ a month ago, I met up with a friend of mine who just left the Maricopa Co. SD, and is a certified 'gun-guy' and spent a day going shooting at Scottsdale Gun Club and chatting about guns, etc... He boiled it down to this:

    No permit for OC or CC while on foot or in one's own vehicle in public or on one's own property. NO OC is allowed in a bar or in a restaurant that has a bar area, and a permit is necessary to CC while inside one of these establishments. Were it 'true' Constitutional carry, no permit would be necessary to go to Applebee's, etc... and any type of carry would be accepted.

    -G20
    Patience, one step at a time. Our state legislature just got more conservative.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notso View Post
    Our state legislature just got more conservative.
    Lucky bastard.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Can we get a cite from actual law on this please? I was under the impression that EITHER OC or CC was permitted with a permit in Applebees, et al.
    In Washington, it is, so long as you stay out of the 'bar' portion of the restaurant.

    I was referring to Arizona's setup. While I was down there we went to an Applebee's-style restaurant for lunch (with my friend) and he said that without my permit, I would be breaking the law to carry inside that certain establishment. Also, OC was not permitted in a restaurant with a bar-portion, regardless of permit or no permit. So there ARE benefits of having the 'voluntary' permit (or an out-of-state one), even though 'constitutional carry' has been enacted. It is still not a pure form of it.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G20-IWB24/7 View Post
    In Washington, it is, so long as you stay out of the 'bar' portion of the restaurant.

    I was referring to Arizona's setup. While I was down there we went to an Applebee's-style restaurant for lunch (with my friend) and he said that without my permit, I would be breaking the law to carry inside that certain establishment. Also, OC was not permitted in a restaurant with a bar-portion, regardless of permit or no permit. So there ARE benefits of having the 'voluntary' permit (or an out-of-state one), even though 'constitutional carry' has been enacted. It is still not a pure form of it.
    Right, AZ's law is what I'm asking after.... but an actual cite, not "my friend said..."
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    If anyone here is following the "Post Election" whining's of Christine Gargoyle, I seriously doubt that there will be any legislation passed that either reduces or does away with ANY source of revenue to the state. I believe that will include any measure that potentially reduces revenue from CPL's.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    If anyone here is following the "Post Election" whining's of Christine Gargoyle, I seriously doubt that there will be any legislation passed that either reduces or does away with ANY source of revenue to the state. I believe that will include any measure that potentially reduces revenue from CPL's.
    What's she got to whine about? Far as I know, Olympia's still as blue as ever.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  16. #16
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    What's she got to whine about? Far as I know, Olympia's still as blue as ever.
    She's whining about the "people" taking back the right for them to spend like a teenager with a no-limit credit card in a bordello.

    Reading this AM's papers she's making all the noises on how government in Washington State is going to have to be "RESET". She can't stomach the idea that there will be lots of programs cut back or even cut period. Olympia may be "Blue" but a lot of that will be their mood when it comes to putting any tax increase to a vote of the people.

    There was even talk of putting all the services the state offers on a ballot so the people of the state could prioritize. Seems that our representatives don't want to do what we elected them to do because they'll look bad to their Union and Special interest supporters if they do so.

    Gregoire's whining is all over money.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Right, AZ's law is what I'm asking after.... but an actual cite, not "my friend said..."
    http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/a...ona_laws_4-229

    Licenses; handguns; posting of notice

    A. A person with a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112 or who meets the criteria specified in section 13-3102, subsection D, paragraph 1 or 2 may carry a concealed handgun on the premises of a licensee who is an on-sale retailer unless the licensee posts a sign that clearly prohibits the possession of weapons on the licensed premises. The sign shall conform to the following requirements:

    1. Be posted in a conspicuous location accessible to the general public and immediately adjacent to the liquor license posted on the licensed premises.

    2. Contain a pictogram that shows a firearm within a red circle and a diagonal red line across the firearm.

    3. Contain the words, "no firearms allowed pursuant to A.R.S. section 4-229".

    B. A person shall not carry a firearm on the licensed premises of an on-sale retailer if the licensee has posted the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section.

    C. It is an affirmative defense to a violation of subsection B of this section if:

    1. The person was not informed of the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section prior to the violation.

    2. Any one or more of the following applies:

    (a) At the time of the violation the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section had fallen down.

    (b) At the time of the violation the person was not a resident of this state.

    (c) The licensee had posted the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section not more than thirty days prior to the violation.

    D. The department of liquor licenses and control shall prepare the signs required by this section and make them available at no cost to licensees.

    E. The signs required by this section shall be composed of block, capital letters printed in black on white laminated paper at a minimum weight of one hundred ten pound index. The lettering and pictogram shall consume a space at least six inches by nine inches. The letters comprising the words "no firearms allowed" shall be at least three-fourths of a vertical inch and all other letters shall be at least one-half of a vertical inch.

    F. This section does not prohibit a person who possesses a handgun from entering the licensed premises for a limited time for the specific purpose of either:

    1. Seeking emergency aid.

    2. Determining whether a sign has been posted pursuant to subsection A of this section.

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