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Thread: Need another perspective

  1. #1
    Regular Member Cobra469's Avatar
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    Need another perspective

    Ok. So some interesting events have happened recently with my sister. Last year she got into a fight with her boyfriend when she had to defend herself physically. They arrested her because of her attitude towards the officers. Well since she now has no home I rent out a room to her in exchange for some part time work she does for my company. As part of her probation she cannot posses any firearms or alcohol. So today we find out her PO will be out in a few weeks for her monthly inspection.

    My question is IF the conditions state specifically possession 1)if they are in a safe and/or behind a locked door of my personal bedroom, of which she has no access to, can we argue that she has no dominant control therefore has no possession? 2) if it is on my person in a holster can they argue that she may be able to acquire control therefore have possession? 3) if it were in my vehicle under my drivers seat and I was driving and she was a passenger can they argue possession? 4) If my bedroom is locked and she has no access to it according to her rental agreement from me, can they search my room without a warrant?

    I have not seen this agreement she has signed so I don't know the specific wording at this time. But her PO is making the claim that absolutely no firearms or alcohol may be in the house at all ever so long as she resides there. Regardless if control has been restricted/eliminated. I can't seem to find any case law in regards to a probationer renting a room versus other living arrangements.

    Doug, your comments are welcome here as I am sure you know all the places to find the info I just can't seem to Google. Not that your informative comments wouldn't be welcomed.

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    J.Gleason is probably more knowledgeable because he works for the Department of Corrections that oversees probationers.
    http://www.wi-doc.com/EarnedReleaseReviewCommission.htm
    Quote Originally Posted by DoC
    Probation is a decision handed down by the judge at trial. It may be in lieu of jail time or in combination with some jail time. It allows the convicted person to live in the community for a specified period of time under the supervision of a probation officer. Depending on the circumstances and the seriousness of the crime, the judge can specify restrictions on the offender's activities during the probationary period. If an offender violates the conditions or rules of probation, he or she may be sentenced to imprisonment by the judge. This is known as revoking the probation or revocation.
    I don't believe that the judge is in any way limited in the conditions of probation that he specifies (I would guess in consultation with a social worker and defense counsel).

    I would clean house!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    J.Gleason is probably more knowledgeable because he works for the Department of Corrections that oversees probationers.
    http://www.wi-doc.com/EarnedReleaseReviewCommission.htm
    I don't believe that the judge is in any way limited in the conditions of probation that he specifies (I would guess in consultation with a social worker and defense counsel).

    I would clean house!
    I agree with Doug;

    I stayed with my daughter a couple of years ago, her boyfriend was (at the time) out on bail. Part of the bail agreement stated that NO firearms were allowed in the house. (Even if they didn't belong to the BF).
    The case has been settled, BF is not allowed (he's on probation) to have weapons in the house.

    Clean house.

    JJC
    Last edited by JJC; 11-02-2010 at 08:39 PM.

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    Regular Member Cobra469's Avatar
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    Yeah I got to take a look at her papers to see if it states house or possession still. I know there is a big difference but am going to try to see if I can find any wiggle room. But a lot of the information I am getting is 2nd and 3rd hand so it is difficult to figure out the specifics.

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    Regular Member cowboyridn's Avatar
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    Talk to an attorney

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra469 View Post
    Ok. So some interesting events have happened recently with my sister. Last year she got into a fight with her boyfriend when she had to defend herself physically. They arrested her because of her attitude towards the officers. Well since she now has no home I rent out a room to her in exchange for some part time work she does for my company. As part of her probation she cannot posses any firearms or alcohol. So today we find out her PO will be out in a few weeks for her monthly inspection.

    My question is IF the conditions state specifically possession 1)if they are in a safe and/or behind a locked door of my personal bedroom, of which she has no access to, can we argue that she has no dominant control therefore has no possession? 2) if it is on my person in a holster can they argue that she may be able to acquire control therefore have possession? 3) if it were in my vehicle under my drivers seat and I was driving and she was a passenger can they argue possession? 4) If my bedroom is locked and she has no access to it according to her rental agreement from me, can they search my room without a warrant?

    I have not seen this agreement she has signed so I don't know the specific wording at this time. But her PO is making the claim that absolutely no firearms or alcohol may be in the house at all ever so long as she resides there. Regardless if control has been restricted/eliminated. I can't seem to find any case law in regards to a probationer renting a room versus other living arrangements.

    Doug, your comments are welcome here as I am sure you know all the places to find the info I just can't seem to Google. Not that your informative comments wouldn't be welcomed.
    Your questions constitute legal advice, which we cannot give here on the forum unless someone answering the question is an attorney. My advice is to take her conditions to an attorney and get proper legal advice.

    Don

  6. #6
    bhancock
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    My experience would inform me that the PO really has the control here. If the PO says no firearms in the house, I would have no firearms in the house. Perhaps they could legitimately be in your vehicle since she doesn't reside or lease use of it. You may have a case depending on the wording of the stipulations (legal counsel) but is it a battle you want to fight and will it land your sister in the clink until it can be resolved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyridn View Post
    Your questions constitute legal advice, which we cannot give here on the forum unless someone answering the question is an attorney. My advice is to take her conditions to an attorney and get proper legal advice. Don
    As well said as well thought. Very good.
    Last edited by Doug Huffman; 11-03-2010 at 05:13 AM.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    1) Read the agreement she signed. Several times. Try to think like a PO.
    2) Keep everything "questionable" out of sight & preferably locked away in your bedroom.
    2a) Much as it pains you, remove the gun-rights stickers from your car & windows & put away the magazines & such.
    3) You shouldn't have a gun under your driver's seat anyway.
    4) Chatting with a lawyer ahead of the inspection is probably less expensive than her going back to jail or you losing your firearm collection.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Cobra469's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    1) Read the agreement she signed. Several times. Try to think like a PO.
    2) Keep everything "questionable" out of sight & preferably locked away in your bedroom.
    2a) Much as it pains you, remove the gun-rights stickers from your car & windows & put away the magazines & such.
    3) You shouldn't have a gun under your driver's seat anyway.
    4) Chatting with a lawyer ahead of the inspection is probably less expensive than her going back to jail or you losing your firearm collection.
    Yeah I have come to the realization that the PO uses the term house not only to be certain that she abides by the law but also to protect her from unknowingly being subject to federal charges. Did some reading on the Federal Gun Act and found that although they didn't say anything about ammo in the court papers I should treat ammo the same. Also found that if they charged her with it they can charge me the same. Federal Felony charges? Not happening. Time to rely on more on the cops than myself and upgrade my alarm system with panic buttons. Also time to research legalities of other forms of protection. Meanwhile I guess the safe goes to my brother for now. At least then I can still go pick them up for some range time. Meanwhile i will help my sister get a job lol.

    Note to self - Secure all extra mags scattered around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra469 View Post
    Ok. So some interesting events have happened recently with my sister. Last year she got into a fight with her boyfriend when she had to defend herself physically. They arrested her because of her attitude towards the officers. Well since she now has no home I rent out a room to her in exchange for some part time work she does for my company. As part of her probation she cannot posses any firearms or alcohol. So today we find out her PO will be out in a few weeks for her monthly inspection.

    My question is IF the conditions state specifically possession 1)if they are in a safe and/or behind a locked door of my personal bedroom, of which she has no access to, can we argue that she has no dominant control therefore has no possession? 2) if it is on my person in a holster can they argue that she may be able to acquire control therefore have possession? 3) if it were in my vehicle under my drivers seat and I was driving and she was a passenger can they argue possession? 4) If my bedroom is locked and she has no access to it according to her rental agreement from me, can they search my room without a warrant?

    I have not seen this agreement she has signed so I don't know the specific wording at this time. But her PO is making the claim that absolutely no firearms or alcohol may be in the house at all ever so long as she resides there. Regardless if control has been restricted/eliminated. I can't seem to find any case law in regards to a probationer renting a room versus other living arrangements.

    Doug, your comments are welcome here as I am sure you know all the places to find the info I just can't seem to Google. Not that your informative comments wouldn't be welcomed.
    If the stipulations listed in her conditions of probation include no firearms or alcohol then all must be removed from the home or she will face revocation. I have seen this happen many times.
    There is no compromise until she is off of probation.
    On the other hand, she could petition the court to remove those stipulations from her list of probation rules. Can't guarantee the judge will go along with it.
    Just to be clear, if the firearms and alcohol are not removed, she will be revoked, which could mean for the entire term of her probation. Meaning if she has two years probation, she will sit the remainder of her two years in jail or in prison if the term is longer than one year. You could also be referred for charges of aiding and abetting for the probation violations. Not saying it will happen, just saying it could.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Cobra469's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    If the stipulations listed in her conditions of probation include no firearms or alcohol then all must be removed from the home or she will face revocation. I have seen this happen many times.
    There is no compromise until she is off of probation.
    On the other hand, she could petition the court to remove those stipulations from her list of probation rules. Can't guarantee the judge will go along with it.
    Just to be clear, if the firearms and alcohol are not removed, she will be revoked, which could mean for the entire term of her probation. Meaning if she has two years probation, she will sit the remainder of her two years in jail or in prison if the term is longer than one year. You could also be referred for charges of aiding and abetting for the probation violations. Not saying it will happen, just saying it could.
    Not to mention the federal charges her PO said would apply to both of us. (the misdemeaner DC charge with domestic assult per the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act) Another case of a woman protecting herself from domestic violence and she gets the shaft.

    Time to look at pepper spray and help my sister find an economic apartment. Saw some nice 1 BR right up the road.

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    Once again, you, or, better her attorney, must read the conditions of probation. Rather than firearms it may prohibit dangerous weapons to include OC. If I was an attorney lookin' to do a screwin' it would.

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