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Off/On Duty police officer entitlement to privacy.

palerider116

Regular Member
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Nov 14, 2010
Messages
572
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Unknown
Thanks for the welcome eye95!

I must apologize for I should have been more specific. In the execution of public duty, I do not mind if I am recorded. Privacy is yielded when you put on a uniform with a badge or are running around in plainclothes displaying a badge (plus any other activity in which you step into active duty mode).

Do the right thing at all times. People will get bored with you quickly because its not sensational or there is some moron that will make a great recording.
 

eye95

Well-known member
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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Thanks for the welcome eye95!

I must apologize for I should have been more specific. In the execution of public duty, I do not mind if I am recorded. Privacy is yielded when you put on a uniform with a badge or are running around in plainclothes displaying a badge (plus any other activity in which you step into active duty mode).

Do the right thing at all times. People will get bored with you quickly because its not sensational or there is some moron that will make a great recording.

Ah. I agree.
 

Tomas

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
702
Location
University Place, Washington, USA
A properly holstered pistol, attached to a belt, on a pair of pants, around the ankles of the citizen in the next stall is not RAS--just something that might intrigue a toe-tapping senator.

Uh, I don't believe that was all he was tapping, but we needn't go there, eh?

(Thanks for the chuckle, Eye. :lol: )
 

eye95

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Jan 6, 2010
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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Even if the subject is a public official/servant? :uhoh:

Sorry, couldn't resist.

If the subject is a public official/servant and he is conducting official business with a member of the public inside his kilt, then he has no expectation of privacy up his skirt. :eek:

How did we get here?
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
The "expectation of privacy" standard is one of the most valuable legal concepts around. We need to protect it. The court rightly decided that the officers had no (and should have no) expectation of privacy when officially dealing with the public. Sunshine when the government exercises its power over people is just as important a legal concept.

This concept is so incredibly important to a free society that it cannot be overemphasized. I contrast this with a modern society's reversal of this, namely, N. Korea, wherein they attempt to control every iota of information in and out of their country. They've not been entirely successful, as has been exhibited by other links herein, but here's a taste.

All governments attempt this to one extent or another. It's simply the nature of the beast.

So long as we're aware of this, we're able to keep tabs on things.

"Who will watch the watchers?"

It is us. All of us.
 

heresyourdipstickjimmy

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2010
Messages
279
Location
Mo.
"No one has a reasonable expectation of privacy outside their home"???

News to me. Have we over-embellished an actual ruling to make it seem worse than it is?

I recall reading it directly out of the court brief. I'll do my best to locate the case as it's vital that folks know what's in the brief. It was specifically a case involving a GPS unit being mounted to someone's vehicle. Give me a day or so, I have a BIG project I'm trying to knock out for work so we can get promoting it.
 

eye95

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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
That ruling merely found that a statute had not been written in such a way as to outlaw upskirt photography in a public place. A properly written law should provide the protection that prosecutors thought this one would. Unfortunately, until someone does something reprehensible that should be illegal, prompting legislation against that something, it usually isn't illegal.
 

OldCurlyWolf

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Sep 8, 2010
Messages
907
Location
Oklahoma
I have a question that stemmed from another post on this forum that went unanswered.

Does a police officer, on duty or off duty, have any entitlement to privacy, regardless of the location, if he/she is questioning your right to open carry?

Once they have ID'd themselves as LEO, all is the same as if they were in uniform on their regular shift, as long as they are within their primary jurisdiction. In their secondary or tertiary jurisdictions the rules change a little, but that wouldn't be one of the changes.

:cool:
 

eye95

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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Once they have ID'd themselves as LEO, all is the same as if they were in uniform on their regular shift, as long as they are within their primary jurisdiction. In their secondary or tertiary jurisdictions the rules change a little, but that wouldn't be one of the changes.

:cool:

I think it takes a little more than saying, "Hi...yeah, I work for the Anytown Police." I'd say they need to take some sort of official action that relies on their authority as a LEO before they are subject to the same lack of privacy they experience on duty.
 

OldCurlyWolf

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Oklahoma
I think it takes a little more than saying, "Hi...yeah, I work for the Anytown Police." I'd say they need to take some sort of official action that relies on their authority as a LEO before they are subject to the same lack of privacy they experience on duty.

They have to show credentials. That establishes them as acting as police officers.

If they just say "I am an officer" and do nothing but talk, not action, that creates a gray area. Depends on the state and the judges interpretation of the statutes governing LEO's.
 

Dreamer

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Sep 23, 2009
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Location
Grennsboro NC
They have to show credentials. That establishes them as acting as police officers.

If they just say "I am an officer" and do nothing but talk, not action, that creates a gray area. Depends on the state and the judges interpretation of the statutes governing LEO's.


Unless it's in MD, in which case they can just jump out of their car, point a gun at you and start shouting orders...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHjjF55M8JQ&feature=related
 

eye95

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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
They have to show credentials. That establishes them as acting as police officers.

If they just say "I am an officer" and do nothing but talk, not action, that creates a gray area. Depends on the state and the judges interpretation of the statutes governing LEO's.

Again, the litmus test would be taking some official action, which showing an ID may or may not be. If I get into a friendly chat with an officer and start talking about fake IDs, when he shows me his ID, he is not taking an official action. If he holds it up, identifying himself as a LEO for the purpose of establishing his authority to give an order, now he loses his expectation of privacy. But, again, the key is that he took official action.
 

ixtow

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Joined
Nov 25, 2006
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Suwannee County, FL
Think about this one.

If you haven't figured it out, I run with a group of people who like to push the limits of what the law 'allows' supposedly free and sovereign citizens to do. So, I end up interfacing with Cops quite a lot. OC isn't the only thing they like to cross the line about.

Often, cops like to approach you and take you aside 'to talk.' They have a list of good reasons. "Don't want to embarrass you in front of your friends," "It's too loud," or just flat out "Lets go where we can talk privately."

Herp a derp! The Officer wasn't doing it for you. He just created a reasonable Expectation of Privacy and you let it happen.

They spend a lot of time thinking up ways to do this. They have lawyers paid for with your money figuring out just the right words to use. They teach it in the academy. Crossing the line as often as possible while creating a fall back of Qualified Immunity is what they're all about. If they pull you aside like that, and you agree:

1) You've just agreed to being detained, forget USC42 1983
2) You've just made it illegal to record the conversation, forget any evidence of the threats they just made on your family's life, etc...

Subtle little stuff like that is how they get away with violating The Constitution. They live for it. Think about that. They and their lawyers get paid with your money to think up ways to violate The Constitution and get away with it.

They're good at it. They craft it to look benign, or as if they're doing you a favor. They're not 'just doing their job' when their job is to strip you of your Rights and Freedoms in any dirty little way they can.

How do you know if some guy you don't really know who wants to 'speak privately' is a cop or not? Will you be able to prove it later when the evidence isn't admissible because of that handy Reasonable Expectation of Privacy? I speak from experience, having had Officers threaten my family and myself. No reason you have to lose your evidence against them, too.
 

OldCurlyWolf

Regular Member
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Sep 8, 2010
Messages
907
Location
Oklahoma
Think about this one.

If you haven't figured it out, I run with a group of people who like to push the limits of what the law 'allows' supposedly free and sovereign citizens to do. So, I end up interfacing with Cops quite a lot. OC isn't the only thing they like to cross the line about.

Often, cops like to approach you and take you aside 'to talk.' They have a list of good reasons. "Don't want to embarrass you in front of your friends," "It's too loud," or just flat out "Lets go where we can talk privately."

Herp a derp! The Officer wasn't doing it for you. He just created a reasonable Expectation of Privacy and you let it happen.

They spend a lot of time thinking up ways to do this. They have lawyers paid for with your money figuring out just the right words to use. They teach it in the academy. Crossing the line as often as possible while creating a fall back of Qualified Immunity is what they're all about. If they pull you aside like that, and you agree:

1) You've just agreed to being detained, forget USC42 1983
2) You've just made it illegal to record the conversation, forget any evidence of the threats they just made on your family's life, etc...

Subtle little stuff like that is how they get away with violating The Constitution. They live for it. Think about that. They and their lawyers get paid with your money to think up ways to violate The Constitution and get away with it.

They're good at it. They craft it to look benign, or as if they're doing you a favor. They're not 'just doing their job' when their job is to strip you of your Rights and Freedoms in any dirty little way they can.

How do you know if some guy you don't really know who wants to 'speak privately' is a cop or not? Will you be able to prove it later when the evidence isn't admissible because of that handy Reasonable Expectation of Privacy? I speak from experience, having had Officers threaten my family and myself. No reason you have to lose your evidence against them, too.

The problem with your scenario is that there is no reasonable expectation of privacy in regard to the person with whom they are having a conversation. In the states where I spend most of my time your scenario is irrelevant.
 

ixtow

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Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
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Location
Suwannee County, FL
The problem with your scenario is that there is no reasonable expectation of privacy in regard to the person with whom they are having a conversation. In the states where I spend most of my time your scenario is irrelevant.

I think you should read it again. Since they pull you aside with the pretense of creating privacy, it is valid. Also, since you agree, the detainment is legal per your consent.

If the whole purpose of the action is for creating privacy, it is impossible to argue a lack of a reasonable expectation of it. I've heard many a judge say it, and read thousands more.

It happens with such frequency that citations of it could fill the hard drive of this server.
 

AbNo

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Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,805
Location
Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
I think you should read it again. Since they pull you aside with the pretense of creating privacy, it is valid. Also, since you agree, the detainment is legal per your consent.

If the whole purpose of the action is for creating privacy, it is impossible to argue a lack of a reasonable expectation of it. I've heard many a judge say it, and read thousands more.

Good thing I live in a one-party record state.

You should look into it, Ix.
 

OldCurlyWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
907
Location
Oklahoma
I think you should read it again. Since they pull you aside with the pretense of creating privacy, it is valid. Also, since you agree, the detainment is legal per your consent.

If the whole purpose of the action is for creating privacy, it is impossible to argue a lack of a reasonable expectation of it. I've heard many a judge say it, and read thousands more.

It happens with such frequency that citations of it could fill the hard drive of this server.


As I said, where I reside, if I decide it is not to be private it is not private. It is a one party consent case. Period.
 
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