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Thread: DNR reply to allowing open carry in the woods 24 hours prior to deer season

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    Regular Member cowboyridn's Avatar
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    DNR reply to allowing open carry in the woods 24 hours prior to deer season

    I received a reply from the DNR, to the email I sent, and he stated that NR 10.09 remains a valid state law where open carry is not an option. With this email denying my right to open carry 24 hours before deer season in the woods for self defense, he is denying my constitutional right to open carry.

    I will add NR 10.09 to the suit alleging that NR 10.09 is unconstitutional on its face. Having the email essentially eliminates the need to physically going in the woods while open carrying and receiving a citation for doing so.

    Iíve updated the proposed law suit for declaratory relief, which I have submitted to the ACLU in Madison and the Mountain States Legal Foundation, of which Iím waiting to hear back from either one to accept my complaint and represent me in this action to declare the DNR regulations stated in the complaint below.

    Don
    Last edited by cowboyridn; 11-13-2010 at 02:37 PM.

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    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    Nice. Keep up the good work. The DNR has had to much control for far to long.
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    This is off thread a bit but I think something those that deer hunt may like to know. The DNR changed the administrative rule that previously did not allow use of magnifying telescopic sights on muzzleloaders during the separate muzzle loading season. It is now permissable to use magnifying telescopic sights on muzzleloaders during any season. The change was made after the 2010 regulation booklet was printed. This can be verified on the DNR web site.

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    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    The DNR has that control because we let them. We must reign them in and put a leash on this bad dog. Our constitutional rights should, no...must be paramount to all statutes and rules. This is ridiculous to allow them the power that they have.

    Warrantless searches, power to disarm at a whim, power to prohibit on a whim etc. I do not choose to live under such constraints as these.

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    Actually I think our ire of the DNR may be to a large extent misguided. I think our disgust of the flagrant violation of the state constitution by the DNR should be directed towards the natural resources Board. The Natural Resources Board is a seven member board that is appointed by the governor, it is interesting to note that the members of the NRB and the Secretary of the DNR are all appointed by the governor. Such powerful people in state goverment and none accountable to the people. Long live the police state of Wisconssin. Back to the NRB. The seven members of the NRB as I said are appointed by the governor and serve staggered six year terms that expire May 1 of the appropriate year. It is the NRB that sets DNR policy and responsibilities under state statute. The responsibilities of the NRB are found in chaprter 15.34 of state statutes. In other words as far as DNR actions are concerned it is the NRB that calls the shots. It is at the board our concerns should be directed. As far as the DNR is concerned our complaints to it are largely futile because the DNR takes it's direction from the NRB and any policy response from the DNR must be with DNR approval. The members of the current NRB, their contact numbers and the date their term expires is as follows:

    Jonathan Ela, chair dnrnrbchair@wisconsin.gov (608)516-4328 Term expires May 1, 2011.
    John Welter, vice-chair (715)833-7028 Term expire May 1, 2011.
    David Clausen, secretary (715)268-8131 Term expires May 1,2013
    Preston Cole (414)286-3671 Term expires May 1, 2013
    Gary Rohde (715) 425-0495 Term expires May 1, 2011
    Christine Thomas (715)346-4185 Term expires May 1, 2015
    Jane Wiley (715)359-2475 Term expires May 1,2015

    The secretary of the DNR, Matt Frank sits on the NRB as a advisor. He was appointed by Doyle Sept, 2007.

    The chair and the vice-chair as well as Gary Rohde all have terms that expire this coming year under new governor Walker. The position of secretary of DNR is also at the whim of Walker.

    It is possible that if we express our concern to Walker on those items we feel are infringing on our Federal and State constitutional rights that we can in turn influence his appointments to the NRB and the DNR. It really is our only chance. The NRB and DNR have amassed their police power because none of the officers of either department are accountable to the people and that with the awesome power of Rule-Making give them free rein to do as they please.

    My thoughts and opinions.
    Last edited by Captain Nemo; 11-03-2010 at 06:08 PM.

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    bad in principle...

    Do you actually plan on OCing on public hunting land in the wee morning hours before deer season?

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    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    Actually I think our ire of the DNR may be to a large extent misguided. I think our disgust of the flagrant violation of the state constitution by the DNR should be directed towards the natural resources Board. The Natural Resources Board is a seven member board that is appointed by the governor, it is interesting to note that the members of the NRB and the Secretary of the DNR are all appointed by the governor. Such powerful people in state goverment and none accountable to the people. Long live the police state of Wisconssin. Back to the NRB. The seven members of the NRB as I said are appointed by the governor and serve staggered six year terms that expire May 1 of the appropriate year. It is the NRB that sets DNR policy and responsibilities under state statute. The responsibilities of the NRB are found in chaprter 15.34 of state statutes. In other words as far as DNR actions are concerned it is the NRB that calls the shots. It is at the board our concerns should be directed. As far as the DNR is concerned our complaints to it are largely futile because the DNR takes it's direction from the NRB and any policy response from the DNR must be with DNR approval. The members of the current NRB, their contact numbers and the date their term expires is as follows:

    Jonathan Ela, chair dnrnrbchair@wisconsin.gov (608)516-4328 Term expires May 1, 2011.
    John Welter, vice-chair (715)833-7028 Term expire May 1, 2011.
    David Clausen, secretary (715)268-8131 Term expires May 1,2013
    Preston Cole (414)286-3671 Term expires May 1, 2013
    Gary Rohde (715) 425-0495 Term expires May 1, 2011
    Christine Thomas (715)346-4185 Term expires May 1, 2015
    Jane Wiley (715)359-2475 Term expires May 1,2015

    The secretary of the DNR, Matt Frank sits on the NRB as a advisor. He was appointed by Doyle Sept, 2007.

    The chair and the vice-chair as well as Gary Rohde all have terms that expire this coming year under new governor Walker. The position of secretary of DNR is also at the whim of Walker.

    It is possible that if we express our concern to Walker on those items we feel are infringing on our Federal and State constitutional rights that we can in turn influence his appointments to the NRB and the DNR. It really is our only chance. The NRB and DNR have amassed their police power because none of the officers of either department are accountable to the people and that with the awesome power of Rule-Making give them free rein to do as they please.

    My thoughts and opinions.
    Thank you for explaining that. I had no idea... What seems obvious to me is that the board needs to be disbanded and the DNR should be brought under the control of the people much the same way as other state organisations. What we have now is not good for the people of Wisconsin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OCglock1988 View Post
    Do you actually plan on OCing on public hunting land in the wee morning hours before deer season?
    Though I may not; in fact plan to do so, I do not want my rights trampled by people who think it is best for me that they do so.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Now, I have a question. How many positions in state government are appointed by the Governor? Are appointments under scrutiny before its official or is it soley decided by the Governor him/herself?


    The more I learn about government, the less I like it.

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    About a hundred appointed boards and commissions

    About a hundred appointed boards and commissions by counting the entries on the Wisconsin Admin Code page. While doing so I did not see Northeast Wisconsin Technical College board, that takes $600 per capita from my poor town (as compared to $60 from nearby municipalities), for which I have particular animus.

    There is no mere citizen input/approval in the process.

    NWTC has made it clear that a 'mayor' will go to jail for not making his town's payment to NWTC. Washington Island's 700 residents owe about $ĹMillion per year. About six students from the Island have attended NWTC.
    Last edited by Doug Huffman; 11-04-2010 at 07:03 AM.

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    OCglock1988:
    The open time of gun deer season is 6:30AM on the 20th of Nov. That means you can not carry a firearm on land for which you or an immediate family member do not have fee title(shooting range excepted) from 6:30AM on the 19th of November. Therefore your right to carry a firearm is voided by the DNR during the daylight hours on the 19th. Not just the wee hours and not only on public hunting land it applies anyplace deer hunting is allowed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OCglock1988 View Post
    Do you actually plan on OCing on public hunting land in the wee morning hours before deer season?
    In the wee morning hours before deer season I AM on public land sitting in my hunting area. I get there in the dark an hour or so before the season opens. Since I carry my rifle I am not without a weapon for defense. However, I usually go out the evening before to do last minute touch ups to my ground blind, place my chair, look for fresh sign and hang doe in heat scents around. This is when I am supposed to be unarmed. I'm not. Unless I want to sit on my couch and hunt out my patio door (BTDT), I need to get out into the woods where the animals are. Last year I hunted in a bears toilet. I'm not going to be out in the woods anywhere, anytime without a weapon for my protection.
    Your question would have been better posed 'do you plan on OC'ing on public land in the evening hours before deer season?' I've encountered many other hunters doing the same preparations as me.
    You know, just sitting here typing got me to thinking about this no gun thing before the season opens. Geez, just about every deer hunter is out in their stand or blind before the season opens. We all have guns, I'm sure they're all loaded. I certainly don't wait until the opening minute to load the gun and make that noise. Wonder what the DNR has to say about that?

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    Regular Member Big Dipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobbersmom View Post
    ... You know, just sitting here typing got me to thinking about this no gun thing before the season opens. Geez, just about every deer hunter is out in their stand or blind before the season opens. We all have guns, I'm sure they're all loaded. I certainly don't wait until the opening minute to load the gun and make that noise. Wonder what the DNR has to say about that?
    That's why this Reg is so ridiculous. It is NOT the 24 hours before the opening. It is the DAY before -- from midnight to midnight. No problem at all from 12:01AM of opening onward.
    Last edited by Big Dipper; 11-04-2010 at 08:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dipper View Post
    That's why this Reg is so ridiculous. It is NOT the 24 hours before the opening. It is the DAY before -- from midnight to midnight. No problem at all from 12:01AM of opening onward.
    Thanks for the clarification, I never really got into it. Since I can legally hunt deer on my property, I am even in violation carrying on my property and in my house. I just backspaced what I thought of the DNR, more specifically, those that make insane rules.

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    Regular Member Big Dipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    About a hundred appointed boards and commissions by counting the entries on the Wisconsin Admin Code page. While doing so I did not see Northeast Wisconsin Technical College board, that takes $600 per capita from my poor town (as compared to $60 from nearby municipalities), for which I have particular animus.

    There is no mere citizen input/approval in the process.

    NWTC has made it clear that a 'mayor' will go to jail for not making his town's payment to NWTC. Washington Island's 700 residents owe about $ĹMillion per year. About six students from the Island have attended NWTC.
    Sure is a good thing that the people who are taxed without any representation (non-resident property owners) pay (what?) about $4 for every $1 contributed by residents of the Town of Washington!

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    Yep. They (you?) should go back where they came from and take the McMansions with you. Oh, and the waterfront tax has been around since before the McMansions.

    Oh, you DO NOT have my permission to hunt on my property.

    ETA: Woo hoo! That got some attention. Immediately a lurker visited my profile.
    Last edited by Doug Huffman; 11-04-2010 at 09:24 AM.

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    ETA: Woo hoo! That got some attention. Immediately a lurker visited my profile.
    I visited your profile too, for S's & G's. So did Administrator.

    How many acres do you have Doug? If you'd care to share, that is.
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    Regular Member Big Dipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    Yep. They (you?) should go back where they came from and take the McMansions with you. Oh, and the waterfront tax has been around since before the McMansions.

    Oh, you DO NOT have my permission to hunt on my property.
    Alas, my only contributions to Town of Washington taxes are indirect - ferry, "renting" from Dawn and Dan, frequenting various restaurants, taverns, Manns, buying honey across the road. I "contribute" to a different town in DC, but just for a hovel.

    Your Friendly Illinois Buddy.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Michigan AG opinion on this type of restriction

    http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/da...0s/op10331.htm

    Hot of the AG desk.

    I know this is Michigan, but you can see what our "pro-gun" AG has to say about a 5 day ban on guns before deer season.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    I visited your profile too, for S's & G's. So did Administrator.

    How many acres do you have Doug? If you'd care to share, that is.
    Just like school zones it's public information.

    Driving to burger night at Karleys' Tuesday there were two bucks sparring in the field diagonally from the fire house.

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    Just like school zones it's public information.

    Driving to burger night at Karleys' Tuesday there were two bucks sparring in the field diagonally from the fire house.
    You're really going to make me look at the plat?

    I've seen two nice bucks crossing just above my driveway on my neighbors property (figures), but have some nice scrapes and rubs on mine. I could have gotten a nice one with my truck the other day. Seems that would be easier than all the red tape I have to go through to bag one in accordance with all the regulations this year.
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    Regular Member Big Dipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    You're really going to make me look at the plat?
    DC makes it VERY easy though.

    http://map.co.door.wi.us/map/#

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Wow

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dipper View Post
    DC makes it VERY easy though.

    http://map.co.door.wi.us/map/#
    I wish Sauk county made it that easy. I'm pretty sure I have to go and buy a plat book or pay some sort of fee to view it on the web to get owners names. I can only view by parcel number otherwise; I think.
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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    In talking to Senator Neal Kedzie today, I asked him about this and whether LEO or Wardens were exempted. He said that according to the strict interpretation of the law, there can legally be no loaded weapons in the state of WI the day before. He agreed it was stupid.

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    Another nonprofessional opinion. He is neither judge nor lawyer. Maybe there should be a poll.

  25. #25
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    He is neither judge nor lawyer. Maybe there should be a poll.
    While you are technically correct, he stated he was involved with changing the law so that the exception for sighting in a weapon at a gun range was allowed, so, he would at least know more about the intent than you and me.

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