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Thread: No License Concealed Carry in Kentucky????

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Exclamation No License Concealed Carry in Kentucky????

    I ran across this news story last night, it was news to me (pardon the pun). The story is from September though so this might be a dead and moot issue now.

    A Kentucky lawmaker is drafting a bill that would let gun owners carry concealed weapons without any special permit. Kentucky has issued concealed carry permits since 1996, but only after a gun owner completed a training course and passed a test. As you might expect, this new law is drawing some strong support and some not-so-friendly fire.

    http://www.local12.com/news/local/st...OnM089Z3A.cspx

    Check out the link and let's discuss this issue.
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    Regular Member HiPointFan's Avatar
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    There are only three states in the union that do this Vermont, Arizona, and Alaska. I feel like Every law abiding person should be able to carry any way they choose. LEO's already know who the people are who are banned from gun ownership. Anyone with any respect for the law will tell LEO's they carring upon questioning freely where as a criminal usually will not. Constitutional Carry should be every law abiding persons right!
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    Regular Member mem1977's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    I watched the video on the news website. The gentleman in the video stated that you can't carry a firearm into a church. I have not seen a law stating that here in Kentucky. Correct me if I am wrong.
    Last edited by mem1977; 11-09-2010 at 04:50 AM.
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    Lord, make me fast and accurate. Let my aim be true and my hand be faster than those who would seek to destroy me. Grant me victory over my foes and those that wish to do harm to me and mine. Let not my last thought be if I only had a gun; and Lord if today is truly the day that you call me home, let me die in a pile of empty brass. ~ The Gunfighter’s Prayer

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    Most of the people in this video seem like boneheads. They talk about how CC classes and costs keep guns out of the hands of people who have no training; it's not true. People can just OC. Honestly, I don't see the purpose of charging and liscencing for CC when people can just OC; is the difference really all that significant if your jacket is tucked behind the holster of hung over it?

    The CC permit doesn't keep guns away from bad people like they paint in the video. The CC permit does not make officers 'more safe'. What the CC permit does is create an extra hoop that is only necessary if the person does not want to OC, and feels it's worth the $70.

    I myself am getting a CCDW as insurance, and for practicality. It's a pain to keep my coat tucked over my holster in the winter. Beyond that, during the other three months I'll be OCing, but don't want to have to be worried about breaking the law because my jacket fell over my holster when I leaned forward at the restaurant. Also, the glove box is not the best place for a pistol in my car, and it's basically the only place in the car that I can OC it.

    I have no idea what the deal with the bill is-- I hope it's still alive. I hope it's gaining momentum, and it would be neat to see it passed. Unnecessary regulations serve only to restrict freedoms. This particular restriction is additionally moot because of the viability of OCing.

    Bah.

    EDIT: As far as carrying in church, if there's some off-the-wall law that prohibits it, I've never heard about it. I have carried in church before, and as I understand it, the church is treated no differently than a private business. The owner has the right to post a sign, or ask an individual seen carrying a firearm to leave.
    Last edited by Tribunal Power; 11-09-2010 at 05:25 AM.

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    There is no law in Ky. that prohibits the carrying of a gun, openly or concealed, in a church. The original Ky. CCDW law contained a prohibition on carrying concealed in a church. That prohibition was removed in 2000.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    I've never heard of any KRS prohibiting carry in churches so I assume that the above poster has that info correct.

    As for the bill. The gentleman from Danville has gotten this written up to "allow those that are considered low-income to be able to defend themselves", as he put it. Personally, I don't see this point as truly being a valid one for passing this bill into law. Like someone else had written here, Kentucky has OC available to those that can't afford or just don't wish to carry concealed. I fear that this might only work to weaken the rep that the CCDW has come to signify. I can't say that the class alone makes for a better concealed carrier, it does make for a more informed one though. I fear that if this bill becomes law, we will have alot of folks out there carrying that have never handled a firearm in there lives, some that might not even know ANYTHING about carrying concealed.

    All it will take is one or many a couple shootings by paniced carriers that were allowed to carry concealed under this new thing and then those of us that have actually taken the class, done our range work and then gone on to study and even train above and beyond, to lose the CCDW. Maybe these fears are unfounded but are we really willing to play "russian roulette" with our licenses?

    It was also mentioned somewhere that this new bill, if passed into law would only allow these folks to carry concealed within kentucky, it would NOT be honoured anywhere outside Kentucky like our current CCDW is. I can not find where I read this though.

    My personal thought, we need to keep everything as it is. If it's not broken, why try to fix it? *LOL*
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    Regular Member mem1977's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by neuroblades View Post
    I've never heard of any KRS prohibiting carry in churches so I assume that the above poster has that info correct.

    As for the bill. The gentleman from Danville has gotten this written up to "allow those that are considered low-income to be able to defend themselves", as he put it. Personally, I don't see this point as truly being a valid one for passing this bill into law. Like someone else had written here, Kentucky has OC available to those that can't afford or just don't wish to carry concealed. I fear that this might only work to weaken the rep that the CCDW has come to signify. I can't say that the class alone makes for a better concealed carrier, it does make for a more informed one though. I fear that if this bill becomes law, we will have alot of folks out there carrying that have never handled a firearm in there lives, some that might not even know ANYTHING about carrying concealed.

    All it will take is one or many a couple shootings by paniced carriers that were allowed to carry concealed under this new thing and then those of us that have actually taken the class, done our range work and then gone on to study and even train above and beyond, to lose the CCDW. Maybe these fears are unfounded but are we really willing to play "russian roulette" with our licenses?

    It was also mentioned somewhere that this new bill, if passed into law would only allow these folks to carry concealed within kentucky, it would NOT be honoured anywhere outside Kentucky like our current CCDW is. I can not find where I read this though.

    My personal thought, we need to keep everything as it is. If it's not broken, why try to fix it? *LOL*
    I have to agree with you on "If it's not broken, why try to fix it?"
    I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands! ~ Charlton Heston (1923 -- 2008)

    Lord, make me fast and accurate. Let my aim be true and my hand be faster than those who would seek to destroy me. Grant me victory over my foes and those that wish to do harm to me and mine. Let not my last thought be if I only had a gun; and Lord if today is truly the day that you call me home, let me die in a pile of empty brass. ~ The Gunfighter’s Prayer

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    Quote Originally Posted by neuroblades View Post
    I've never heard of any KRS prohibiting carry in churches so I assume that the above poster has that info correct.

    As for the bill. The gentleman from Danville has gotten this written up to "allow those that are considered low-income to be able to defend themselves", as he put it. Personally, I don't see this point as truly being a valid one for passing this bill into law. Like someone else had written here, Kentucky has OC available to those that can't afford or just don't wish to carry concealed. I fear that this might only work to weaken the rep that the CCDW has come to signify. I can't say that the class alone makes for a better concealed carrier, it does make for a more informed one though. I fear that if this bill becomes law, we will have alot of folks out there carrying that have never handled a firearm in there lives, some that might not even know ANYTHING about carrying concealed.

    All it will take is one or many a couple shootings by paniced carriers that were allowed to carry concealed under this new thing and then those of us that have actually taken the class, done our range work and then gone on to study and even train above and beyond, to lose the CCDW. Maybe these fears are unfounded but are we really willing to play "russian roulette" with our licenses?

    It was also mentioned somewhere that this new bill, if passed into law would only allow these folks to carry concealed within kentucky, it would NOT be honoured anywhere outside Kentucky like our current CCDW is. I can not find where I read this though.

    My personal thought, we need to keep everything as it is. If it's not broken, why try to fix it? *LOL*
    As a general rule, I disagree with needing to be "lisenced" to exercise a freedom. That being said, I agree that the class is a good thing.

    However...

    The government should not be able to demand that I take a class before I can practice my 2A rights. Yes, this is overcome by KY's awesome OC protection, but my point is this: the argument that the class keeps stupids from carrying guns is nonadmissable because anyone who can own can OC. My friend, not needing a lisence to CC wouldn't change very much at all because people already don't need a lisence to OC. That means there are already stupids roaming KY strapped with a HiPoint on their hip. You can love it or you can hate it, but the reality is that this bill would only really change whether or not your shirt being untucked while carrying is a crime.

    Well, that, and the fact that the other states won't honor it. That sucks. Maybe they'd keep the class/lisence available for those who want multi-state "privelages"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tribunal Power View Post
    Maybe they'd keep the class/lisence available for those who want multi-state "privelages"?
    i do believe that is the goal to make it so any one can cc in kentucky with out a license but also offer the current setup so we can cc in other states still which sounds like a win to me

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    Kentucky is, perhaps, a more Realistic Candidate for Constitutional Carry, then, let us say..., Tennessee.
    In fact, I believe that Kentucky may go to Constitutional Carry as early as 2011!

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiPointFan View Post
    LEO's already know who the people are who are banned from gun ownership.
    Then why do they keep harassing those of us who are law-abiding, decent people?!?!??!
    (Yeah, I know - to show their displeasure.)

    Anyone with any respect for the law will tell LEO's they carring upon questioning freely where as a criminal usually will not.
    I disagree.

    While I may have some respect for the Law, I am quite wary of interacting with LEOs (other than the one whom I know personally & he's a decent guy & I trust him... but that has nothing to do with his job).

    And honestly, if we had legal CC and my friend asked in his official capacity if I were armed, I'd probably not answer. Or I might tell my friend Joe that I'm armed, but ask him not to mention it to Officer H. (him in uniform). Any other officer, I'd ignore the question completely, asking if I were free to go, or what crime it is they suspect me of that they are detaining me for.

    Not talking to police, not telling them personal information (except when required by law) does not make one a criminal. And follow me through this reasoning - asking someone if they have a weapon is a senseless, useless question.
    Most decent people will answer yes, and won't be a danger.
    Some decent people won't answer, but aren't a danger.
    Criminals won't answer yes, in fact they'll probably lie & say no, but are a danger.
    So the question doesn't give an officer any useful information.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 11-10-2010 at 09:34 PM.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tribunal Power View Post
    As a general rule, I disagree with needing to be "lisenced" to exercise a freedom. That being said, I agree that the class is a good thing.

    However...

    The government should not be able to demand that I take a class before I can practice my 2A rights. Yes, this is overcome by KY's awesome OC protection, but my point is this: the argument that the class keeps stupids from carrying guns is nonadmissable because anyone who can own can OC. My friend, not needing a lisence to CC wouldn't change very much at all because people already don't need a lisence to OC. That means there are already stupids roaming KY strapped with a HiPoint on their hip. You can love it or you can hate it, but the reality is that this bill would only really change whether or not your shirt being untucked while carrying is a crime.

    Well, that, and the fact that the other states won't honor it. That sucks. Maybe they'd keep the class/lisence available for those who want multi-state "privelages"?
    My understanding is that the class and license would still be intact for those that wanted to be able to go outside the state and be allowed to legally CC in the states that accept our licenses.

    I see your point about the stupid still being out there carrying. *LOL* I'm just afraid that this might somehow work to weaken the CCDW license in the end. I do agree that we should by virtue of the 2nd Amendment, be able to CC without a license nationwide but sadly, we can't and I have to admot, I do like the fact that with us having to take the class and learn the laws pertaining, I do feel like we have a better system than some other states and we're better educated and more responsible.
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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Then why do they keep harassing those of us who are law-abiding, decent people?!?!??!
    (Yeah, I know - to show their displeasure.)


    I disagree.

    While I may have some respect for the Law, I am quite wary of interacting with LEOs (other than the one whom I know personally & he's a decent guy & I trust him... but that has nothing to do with his job).

    And honestly, if we had legal CC and my friend asked in his official capacity if I were armed, I'd probably not answer. Or I might tell my friend Joe that I'm armed, but ask him not to mention it to Officer H. (him in uniform). Any other officer, I'd ignore the question completely, asking if I were free to go, or what crime it is they suspect me of that they are detaining me for.

    Not talking to police, not telling them personal information (except when required by law) does not make one a criminal. And follow me through this reasoning - asking someone if they have a weapon is a senseless, useless question.
    Most decent people will answer yes, and won't be a danger.
    Some decent people won't answer, but aren't a danger.
    Criminals won't answer yes, in fact they'll probably lie & say no, but are a danger.
    So the question doesn't give an officer any useful information.
    In Kentucky, by virtue of our law, we are not required to inform LEO's that we are carrying when pulled but it really doesn't really matter in the end because when LEO's make a traffic stop in Kentucky and run your plate, it notifies them that you're CCDW licensed. Yes, I'm aware that if you're driving someone else's vehicle, this information wouldn't be brought up on their VDT.
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    Regular Member muskyfever's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Carrying in a Church?

    I personally will not carry in a Church.Too much confusion in that topics!

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    I would personally support legislation for legal cc in Kentucky. Anytime rights are given to the people on a "shall issue" basis, it opens up too many opportunities for corruption. Don't forget that the original reason for the 2nd Amendment Rights was not protection from other citizens, but first and foremost from our own government. Reverting back into another monarchal dictatorship was the Constitution authors' biggest fear. Nothing is going to change the fact that law abiding citizens will be law abiding citizens and criminal will be criminals-- plain as that.

    As far as church carry goes, there is really no confusion or grey area in Kentucky. It's not illegal; therefore it's perfectly legal. I always carry in church, especially of all places. Attacks on church congregations are increasing at an alarming rate all across the country, and I highly doubt that these attackers consider the sanctuary to be the same sacred place of worship that I do. I do however always go to church in CC form rather than OC. The purpose of church is to draw attention to our Father and Creator, not to me.
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    Regular Member Ivan Sample's Avatar
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    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Last edited by Ivan Sample; 11-15-2010 at 04:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by muskyfever View Post
    I personally will not carry in a Church.Too much confusion in that topics!
    There is no confusion, at all. It's perfectly legal, period. Now, are you still confused?

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Sample View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    I'm going to assume you meant "without" proper training? So somehow the same yahoo who OC's without training is ok? The off limit areas for weapons will still apply, & those that want to carry outside of Kentucky will still need a CC license.

    If this passes it's just one more reason for me to move back home.
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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muskyfever View Post
    I personally will not carry in a Church.Too much confusion in that topics!
    Funny you should mention carrying in church, we have a topic for that as well. *LOL*

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ying-In-Church
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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Sample View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    I kind of feel the same way about this topic. Granted the class, range fire, etc. doesn't always make for a better, safer, and more intelligent carrier but they certainly DO NOT hurt! Personally, I see no reason for this to even be brought forward when Kentucky has an excellent OC in place.
    Last edited by neuroblades; 11-21-2010 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Spelling corrections
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Sample View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Seriously, Ivan? Seriously?

    I can't believe how many people are saying "o noes, no lisence means no training and then just anyone can carry a gun!"

    Good Lord.

    As was previously mentioned... Yes, just any yahoo, yokel, or redneck (or "citizen" if you ask me) can carry a gun. That's the way it already is, for goodness' sake. Anyone who can purchase one can openly carry it. Even a psychologically disgruntled man who was just fired from his job after his wife left him and has nothing left to lose. Even a thug (with no felonies) who just turned 21 and bought a HiPoint he knows nothing about, and is still trying to figure out where the "clip" is on the gun. Even someone who's had all the misdemeanors in the world.

    And for the record, I myself have no "training" and I carry everywhere, every day. You don't like it? Move to California.

    Please, stop pushing that argument. Removing the shall-issue policy would not keep guns out of the hands of the untrained. The untrained can already buy, operate, and carry a gun ANYWHERE AND EVERYWHERE someone with a CC lisence can. I won't even go into what's wrong with everyone thinking an 8-hour class and a target test where you only have to get 11/20 the bullets in a sillhouette target is the magic fix-all for people with no training.

    Using that argument is no better than posting "lol this is stupid who would want this law it is teh dumb." Either way, you are providing no valid reason. If you disagree with the proposal of this law, fair, but if you're going to bother posting, at least include a valid reason why you disagree.

    So far, the only real reason I've seen for opposing this is because it's only recognized by KY.
    Last edited by Tribunal Power; 11-12-2010 at 05:09 AM.

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    Okay, I find it very ironic that so many people are opposed to constitutional cc on a site full of people who claim to support open carry with no permit. Second, I hope no one here is considering that ccdw class to be training or any kind of qualification. As for reprocity, the bill leaves our current ccdw program in place so that those who wish may keep thier license valid to carry in other states. And Tribunal Power, I agree with every single statement you made. Well said sir.
    Last edited by Armed and Harmless; 11-12-2010 at 09:08 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Sample View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    i hope this bill passes here, the other 3 states that allow cc without a permit don't seem to have any trouble with yahoo's carrying. and i believe most kentucky gun owners will abide by the law, you can't punish everyone for one persons stupidity. and not just anyone can do this, just the ones that can legally buy and carry can do it. if your a criminal or a convicted felon you can't carry legal.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Ivan Sample's Avatar
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    M1gunr-

    Yes I meant with out the proper training and yes I know that we have alot of people open carrying a gun and maybe they shouldn't, only time will tell that. But to conceal carrying a gun I think needs the training on serveral aspects. Yes I know that the training that you get in class is not sufficient enough but its a start. If people going to carry a gun they should continue to train after the class and even if they are open carrying. Yes and no disrespect to you but we can agree to disagree. Plus it was just my opinion and it really means nothing anyway. Take care!
    Last edited by Ivan Sample; 11-15-2010 at 04:47 PM.

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    Regular Member Ivan Sample's Avatar
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    Tribunal Powers/boomer 92266-

    First of all lets get one thing straight before I go on answering your ranting and raving. All I was doing was putting in my two cents. My opinion really don't carried any weight in here because I am responsible for myself. Plus why are you going off the deep end over an opinion that I posted here. One thing I see from you is that maybe you shouldn't be carrying any thing less longer a gun on your belt. You see your words or actions speak for themselves and everybody in here is seeing you make a fool out of yourself. You can agree to disagree-SERIOUSLY this is just a forum where people are allow to speak free as long as they don't break the rules of the board, which I respect. Secondly, my training was not a two day course where I put eleven rounds out of twenty into a sheet of paper or target. I went through a week course where we shot in dime light, kneeling, weak hand, tatical reload, and fifty rounds and do I need to keep going on with my training beside studying the law and when and when not to shoot. I realized that not everyone goes through that type of training. But damn if you going to buy a gun PLEASE LEARN HOW TO SHOOT IT AND KNOW THE LAW FOR YOUR AREA. IF I insulted your intelligence-GOOD because you need a wake up call, cuz you are not getting it. Be careful what you say and who you say it to. I just know this I am further pass the BS that goes on in here. Plus I can admit when I wrong-there has been time when members in here call me out and they were right! but you are totally wrong. You have a good day and maybe you will learn how to shoot what you carrying!

    Tribunal Powers I did a little research from your post about getting your CCDW-I see that you went through the class and got some training in firearms but was it enough to keep your big mouth shut. You stated in your earlier post that you didn't have any training or something to that effect. So not only did you lie but you open up a can that you shouldn't have. Well you learn something new every time you visit this board!
    Last edited by Ivan Sample; 11-15-2010 at 11:09 PM.

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