Question: City of Southfiled dumped S&W M&P pistols?

Bailenforcer said:

I never trusted a necked cartridge in a handgun concept. .

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Other than when it fell on the ground and shot me, my CZ52 was as reliable as anything I've ever used, including when I accidentally got sand in the action. So bottle necks can at least cycle well with commie grade reliability.

Bailenforcer said:

Yes I really want to see the 10 MM make a come back.

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I'm helping to keep the 10mm alive.
I have 3 - 10mm Handguns.

Michigander said:

Another odd choice, since you lose a fair amount of transferable energy when necking down a typical handgun round. But I suppose at least the recoil will be light, and the cute little HP bullets will expand well.

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The 357 sig is not a light recoil round and is also rather high velocity. If I remember right it is a 40 cal case necked down to accept a 9mm bullet and the shape of the case gives it the "shaped charge" effect when it goes off. I had one in a 239 sig frame and the recoil was quite snappy. Much much more than the 9mm in the same version and more than a 40 cal if going just off the feel

All I can say is from being in the manufacturing field for a long time I have seen on many occassions when a customer switches to a new brand where all of these "problems" arise. I cannot say that is what happened here but some people are resistant to change ect. I have a little trouble buying there was widespread trouble just off of my own experience. I own 2 M&Ps and with all of the people I have referred to get one and all of the range time we have at our facility with a double digit number of them I can say I have never seen a problem with any of them. In tens of thousands of combined rounds I have never seen one of them have any failure that I recall and just find it difficult to buy that they had widespread issues.

Scooter said:

I just hope they can hit their target with whatever they're using!

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They will...as long as their target is their own leg :lol:

Bronson

choover said:

The 357 sig is not a light recoil round and is also rather high velocity. If I remember right it is a 40 cal case necked down to accept a 9mm bullet

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No doubts there my friend. And you are absolutely right, mostly, except it's actually a thickened .40 case which is necked down. This allows the greater pressures which account for the harder kick.

Anyhow, it's pretty easy to demonstrate the power loss issue. 40 Short and Weak's more powerful parent round, 10mm is by pretty much anyones definition capable of outperforming .357 magnum. Maybe not by too much, but it still does, and .40 S&W doesn't. .357 Sig pretends it can keep up with with .357 magnum, but it can't. When you neck down the 10mm to .357 as Dillon did with the 9x25, it is on par with the .357. It gets a little more velocity with a lot smaller bullet. This is mostly a bad idea in my opinion. You want the kinetic energy transfer, not slightly more zippy FPS numbers.

If you don't need the velocity, or penetration with a round like 32 NAA, you probably don't want a necked down handgun caliber. I honestly don't think most carriers can articulate an honest claim to needing this level of specialty performance. Not that we need a reason to exercise a right, but it's stupid to select an inferior option.

choover said:

All I can say is from being in the manufacturing field for a long time I have seen on many occassions when a customer switches to a new brand where all of these "problems" arise. I cannot say that is what happened here but some people are resistant to change ect. I have a little trouble buying there was widespread trouble just off of my own experience. I own 2 M&Ps and with all of the people I have referred to get one and all of the range time we have at our facility with a double digit number of them I can say I have never seen a problem with any of them. In tens of thousands of combined rounds I have never seen one of them have any failure that I recall and just find it difficult to buy that they had widespread issues.

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A customer of mine is on the DPD and claimed that the magazines were falling out without being released.

EDA50 said:

A customer of mine is on the DPD and claimed that the magazines were falling out without being released.

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One of the guns only draw backs is that you can hit the mag release button with your hand properly gripping the frame. Not too big of a deal, just something that has to be accounted for in practice. I have to wonder if this account merely refers to people accidentally dropping the mags while shooting. They use an effective and fairly robust locking mechanism, so I find the idea that it failed when newish to be exceptionally unlikely.

It could be that the gun isn't failing but the PD felt that in a high stress situation it was too easy to hit the mag release so they switched firearms...to one that they'll shoot themselves in the leg with but hey, at least the mag stays in

And no I actually can't stop myself. I've tried and it gives me bad gas :lol::lol:

Bronson

Bronson "They will...as long as their target is their own leg"

LOL! I KNEW someone would say it!

scot623 said:

Beware! It's only a matter of time before Tvance shows up and tells everyone this thread is off topic. It is his favorite thing to do these days.

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You don't know me, or my favorite things to do. Lately I've been busy with work and getting an education.

Either go take care of some MOC business or piss up a rope!

BTW, Glocks rule!

I own an M&P 40c and i have never had a malfunction it has always worked just fine for me in everyway.

Bronson said:

It could be that the gun isn't failing but the PD felt that in a high stress situation it was too easy to hit the mag release so they switched firearms...to one that they'll shoot themselves in the leg with but hey, at least the mag stays in

And no I actually can't stop myself. I've tried and it gives me bad gas :lol::lol:

Bronson

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Is there a popular brand of handguns that has had a high rate of people shooting themselves in the leg? Just curious, wasn't sure if this was a joke or not.

Recoil88 said:

I own an M&P 40c and i have never had a malfunction it has always worked just fine for me in everyway.

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The only malfunction I've seen out of them is ammo related. A cracked case got stuck after the round fired. This was far more of a reloading error than a gun malfunction, since it would have jammed just about any semi or fully automatic firearm.

budlight said:

Is there a popular brand of handguns that has had a high rate of people shooting themselves in the leg? Just curious, wasn't sure if this was a joke or not.

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Glock. It's not that they are unsafe, just that they need to be handled and holstered properly, and in a more rigorously contained way than some other guns, on account of their relatively light trigger pulls. Stupidity with any gun will kill, but you have to be especially careful with holstering and drawing with Glocks.

M&P

I have been testing my M&P out by not cleaning it.
I have put over 1000 rounds downrange with ZERO jams in a gun that is DIRTY
i got a good one i guess

We must remember many of those accidents were before the recall of a crap load of Glocks that had a pin that wobbled loose and cause them to fire when bumped. Every time I have looked into the claims it was on those older weapons (pre-recall).

Yes accidents also happen. Sadly stupidity happens all too often.

Michigander said:

Glock. It's not that they are unsafe, just that they need to be handled and holstered properly, and in a more rigorously contained way than some other guns, on account of their relatively light trigger pulls. Stupidity with any gun will kill, but you have to be especially careful with holstering and drawing with Glocks.

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Michigander said:

Another odd choice, since you lose a fair amount of transferable energy when necking down a typical handgun round. But I suppose at least the recoil will be light, and the cute little HP bullets will expand well.

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muzzle velocity is higher than a .40, in the glock 22 .40sw and an i dentical glock 31 .357sig beets it every time. also i believe the cross sectional denseity favors the .40 but even with that terminal performance is still with the 9mm round that the .357 sig round uses.

choover said:

The 357 sig is not a light recoil round and is also rather high velocity. If I remember right it is a 40 cal case necked down to accept a 9mm bullet and the shape of the case gives it the "shaped charge" effect when it goes off. I had one in a 239 sig frame and the recoil was quite snappy. Much much more than the 9mm in the same version and more than a 40 cal if going just off the feel

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i have had several .357 sig pistols, my 2 faves were the sig and the glock 31. recoil was a touch more than a .40, but still very manageable

T Vance said:

You don't know me, or my favorite things to do. Lately I've been busy with work and getting an education.

Either go take care of some MOC business or piss up a rope!

BTW, Glocks rule!

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hmm now thats off topic could you, file a report on yourself?

and no glocks don't "rule" they are pretty good though, 1911's however due rule! 100 years of handgun can't be wrong!

Bailenforcer said:

We must remember many of those accidents were before the recall of a crap load of Glocks that had a pin that wobbled loose and cause them to fire when bumped. Every time I have looked into the claims it was on those older weapons (pre-recall).

Yes accidents also happen. Sadly stupidity happens all too often.

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the type of holster could also have been an issue, but essentially yes poor training and bad index finger control could be to blame, cops have shot themselves with other sidearms also, even ones with excesessive trigger pull weights. training is key, and yes when i heard about how "touchy" glocks were and how easy it was to shoot your self, i found perhaps the same info bail did, probably a parts failure, but bad trigger finger use was probably the cause more often than the gun.

Michigander said:

One of the guns only draw backs is that you can hit the mag release button with your hand properly gripping the frame. Not too big of a deal, just something that has to be accounted for in practice. I have to wonder if this account merely refers to people accidentally dropping the mags while shooting. They use an effective and fairly robust locking mechanism, so I find the idea that it failed when newish to be exceptionally unlikely.

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A cop, not handle a gun right? It was the guns fault.... FOR SURE!