Video of Police Interation

Gunslinger said:

Interesting. I would have stayed further away from the cop, but kept on filming if not personally involved, but would have walked right up to the car had it been my wife and asked if she was ok. If the cop said to get back, I would have entered the car and kept filming. SNIP

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^ +1

Thats how I would have handled it.

We don’t know what this OCers ACTUAL intent was that day, nor will we ever know for sure. IMO he was looking to start something. If he wanted to stand on the side of the road, or across the street and record something that is fine.

Getting as close as he did would make most officers uneasy if they are dealing with a situation and don’t know who someone walking up on them is, especially if they are carrying a firearm.

Think back in real life to situations you may have seen where an unarmed individual walks up on an officer and the officer commands that person to step back because they are interfering with an investigation. If you haven’t seen this, watch a few episodes of COPS and you will see the same thing.

IMO this is an OCer who goes around looking for attention. He is the type that gives OCers a bad name, along with the rest of the firearms community.

budlight said:

We don’t know what this OCers ACTUAL intent was that day, nor will we ever know for sure. IMO he was looking to start something. If he wanted to stand on the side of the road, or across the street and record something that is fine.

Getting as close as he did would make most officers uneasy if they are dealing with a situation and don’t know who someone walking up on them is, especially if they are carrying a firearm.

Think back in real life to situations you may have seen where an unarmed individual walks up on an officer and the officer commands that person to step back because they are interfering with an investigation. If you haven’t seen this, watch a few episodes of COPS and you will see the same thing.

IMO this is an OCer who goes around looking for attention. He is the type that gives OCers a bad name, along with the rest of the firearms community.

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Violating 4 A is a regular occurance on Cops.Thats the point!Exercising your rights gives you a good name.LEO's violating citizens rights give them a bad name!

Did anybody notice the second sentence he said to the officer? “I’m just holding everybody accountable.” He has no knowledge or reason to believe the officer did something wrong and makes that statement. That in it self set the wrong tone to begin with. People are quick to point out officers that start off on the wrong foot, but here is someone who started off on the wrong foot.

I think my whole point on this is how people present themselves. There are some OCers who carry, but go on about their daily business and forget their gun is even there. There overall philosophy is if someone sees their weapon, fine it’s my right to carry, and if no one notices, that is fine too.

Then there are those on the extreme opposite end. The ones who seem to need the attention, whether it’s how they interact with people, to how they approach certain situations, etc. They know it all, and push things to the edge.

In summary, was video taping wrong or illegal? NO Was OCing wrong or illegal? NO
Was his initial approach to the traffic stop wrong or illegal? Not illegal, but not a good idea. Can the officer demand ID for what he did? NO, he should have only asked, not demanded. Could this whole thing been avoided if he just stayed back at a distance? Probably.

budlight said:

Did anybody notice the second sentence he said to the officer? “I’m just holding everybody accountable.” He has no knowledge or reason to believe the officer did something wrong and makes that statement. That in it self set the wrong tone to begin with. People are quick to point out officers that start off on the wrong foot, but here is someone who started off on the wrong foot.

I think my whole point on this is how people present themselves. There are some OCers who carry, but go on about their daily business and forget their gun is even there. There overall philosophy is if someone sees their weapon, fine it’s my right to carry, and if no one notices, that is fine too.

Then there are those on the extreme opposite end. The ones who seem to need the attention, whether it’s how they interact with people, to how they approach certain situations, etc. They know it all, and push things to the edge.

In summary, was video taping wrong or illegal? NO Was OCing wrong or illegal? NO
Was his initial approach to the traffic stop wrong or illegal? Not illegal, but not a good idea. Can the officer demand ID for what he did? NO, he should have only asked, not demanded. Could this whole thing been avoided if he just stayed back at a distance? Probably.

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He let him know he was watching.No big deal.

budlight said:

Did anybody notice the second sentence he said to the officer? “I’m just holding everybody accountable.” He has no knowledge or reason to believe the officer did something wrong and makes that statement. That in it self set the wrong tone to begin with. People are quick to point out officers that start off on the wrong foot, but here is someone who started off on the wrong foot.

I think my whole point on this is how people present themselves. There are some OCers who carry, but go on about their daily business and forget their gun is even there. There overall philosophy is if someone sees their weapon, fine it’s my right to carry, and if no one notices, that is fine too.

Then there are those on the extreme opposite end. The ones who seem to need the attention, whether it’s how they interact with people, to how they approach certain situations, etc. They know it all, and push things to the edge.

In summary, was video taping wrong or illegal? NO Was OCing wrong or illegal? NO
Was his initial approach to the traffic stop wrong or illegal? Not illegal, but not a good idea. Can the officer demand ID for what he did? NO, he should have only asked, not demanded. Could this whole thing been avoided if he just stayed back at a distance? Probably.

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Alternatively, had the officer accepted the fact that while possibly annoying, this citizen did nothing wrong, illegal or unlawful, swallowed his pride and moved on, this whole thing could have been avoided as well.

FatboyCykes said:

Alternatively, had the officer accepted the fact that while possibly annoying, this citizen did nothing wrong, illegal or unlawful, swallowed his pride and moved on, this whole thing could have been avoided as well.

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BINGO! Thats a BIG 10 - 4! YEEEEEEEH HAAAAAAA! (arrived at by the world renowned K.I.S.S Method,which is recommended in all cases).

budlight said:

Did anybody notice the second sentence he said to the officer? “I’m just holding everybody accountable.” He has no knowledge or reason to believe the officer did something wrong and makes that statement. That in it self set the wrong tone to begin with. People are quick to point out officers that start off on the wrong foot, but here is someone who started off on the wrong foot.

I think my whole point on this is how people present themselves. There are some OCers who carry, but go on about their daily business and forget their gun is even there. There overall philosophy is if someone sees their weapon, fine it’s my right to carry, and if no one notices, that is fine too.

Then there are those on the extreme opposite end. The ones who seem to need the attention, whether it’s how they interact with people, to how they approach certain situations, etc. They know it all, and push things to the edge.

In summary, was video taping wrong or illegal? NO Was OCing wrong or illegal? NO
Was his initial approach to the traffic stop wrong or illegal? Not illegal, but not a good idea. Can the officer demand ID for what he did? NO, he should have only asked, not demanded. Could this whole thing been avoided if he just stayed back at a distance? Probably.

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he said : “I’m just holding EVERYBODY accountable.”

Scooter said:

Ya, I have to disagree. She was pulled over for breaking a law (stupid law? maybe so) It looks like he didn't like it and decided to get involved and maybe stir things up. Sure the cop was clueless on OC, still no excuse for the initial actions. As others have said, he could have stayed where he was.
Honestly, if I noticed my wife pulled over by a LEO I would observe from across the street and get the story afterward.
This all looks like: "HEY! You caught my girl doin' something and I'm mad! I'm gonna get in your face and let you know 'I'm watching you buddy' and I dare you to do something about me OCing." Both parties look kinda dumb on this one.

"Bailenforcer
With that twist of logic, you should write for a liberal news site."


That is really funny, my wife even laughed at that one!

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....was she pulled over for breaking a law?

This is a good example of people sticking there nose into something they know nothing about. If she didn’t feel she deserves the ticket, then she can have her day in court and fight it. Showing up with a video camera and walking over towards the officer would not help her case in anyway regarding the ORIGINAL violation.

What bothers me is that when an officer doesn’t handle a situation correctly, 95% of people on here are quick to point out everything the officer said or did wrong.

But when an OCer doesn’t handle the situation properly, or simply they were looking for some attention, 90% of the people here don’t see anything they did wrong other then:

1. They shouldn’t have talked to the police.
2. They shouldn’t have showed their ID as there was no lawful requirement for them to do so.

NOTE, I agree with both of these, I’m just pointing out that is the ONLY thing the majority ever sees wrong with an OCer.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the way people PRESENT themselves and HOW they talk to others can play a big roll in the out come of things. If we expect an officer to handle things perfectly, then we need to hold ourselves to those same standards.

I also understand that a lot of people on here do present themselves as a good citizen and don’t go out looking for problems or put themselves in a bad situation. I also understand that some have had some very negative encounters with LEOs through no fault of their own.

But in the case of this video, I don’t understand why this OCer felt the need to jump in the car and video tape his girlfriend being pulled over? I don’t have a problem with him video taping, I just wonder what he thought he was going to catch on video. I don’t know anybody who has been driving for a while that hasn’t missed the no turn on red sign, rolled through a stop sign, exceeded the speed limit, etc. When this guy rolled up the video shows his girlfriend in the car. The officer didn’t have her spread eagle on the hood, or tearing her car apart. There was nothing out of the ordinary going on, so if he would have just stayed back on the other side of the road where he came from, the officer probably wouldn’t have paid any attention to him. His camera had a good picture through out the video, so I don’t see any need for him to move in the way he did.

Lastly, his second sentence to the officer, “I’m just holding everybody accountable.” sounds challenging to the officer. The officer didn’t appear to be doing anything wrong but yet he wants to mention accountability. It just sounds like he was looking for trouble.

Master Control said:

....was she pulled over for breaking a law?

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So how was this video going to prove she didn't break the law as she was already stopped??? If he would have just stayed back and the officer did something unethical or illegal, he would have had the proof to back his girlfriend up.

I guess I just don’t know anybody that is so sinister of the police that they have to get in their car and video tape a routine traffic stop.

+1 @ budlight

Budlight you need to read some of the older threads here about police abuse of power. This fellow did just fine. The officers need to know they are being watched and will be held accountable for their actions if they stray over the line into unlawful activities.

Take a look at the following story. Woman driving along minding her own business and while in the same model as the suspect hers was brown not blue and she was a brunette not a blond.. but yet the idiot police decide to stop her and drag her out of the car by her hair.. You need to remove the rose colored glasses and realize there are bad cops as well as good...

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/kalamazoo_and_battle_creek/Woman-mistaken-for-suspect-cop-sorry

The OCer interfered with a traffic stop.

He got too close, Ever hear of the 21' rule?

He distracted the office which was un-needed.

The prudent thing to do is stay across the street on the sidewalk and record.

Yes the cop ....needs training, MUCH training

Plenty of Fail to go around with this one.

This is not directed at Budlight as much as he was one of many that circled the wagons.

I have worked on both sides of the issue and I see both sides, which rarely is done on this site.
It is endemic in American society to assume every situation is bad versus good, and almost never do people think or see there is more often bad vs bad.

Let's clear up a few things.

1. well over 90% of citizen camcorder activists are of the leftist liberal mentality. I am not knocking them it's just a fact.

2. The camcorder guy should have stayed on his side of the street PERIOD!

3. The officer was NOT in any way acting as a Police Officer, he was obviously pissed off that anyone dare challenge his authority by videotaping him. This demagogic mentality is pervasive today in law enforcement. I remember 20 years ago talking to some officers who were still in the academy who were concerned about the mentality of the younger potential officers coming through the academy as being ignorant and unwilling to recognize Constitutional principles and rights. Still today we have discussions on the thug mentality of a larger percentage of officers than anyone here might be comfortable knowing about.

That Officer was a thug, the camcorder guy was a idiot but remember being silly or a idiot doesn't ever rise to the abuse these officers were willing to dish out. The officer should have let it go, after it was obvious the guy was just recording the stop, but the officer out of a false sense of pride and utter arrogance couldn't let it go, not unlike those who after a high speed chase and the bad guy falling prone stomp the bad guy viciously and brutally. This feeding frenzy mentality mob mentality is dangerous in law enforcement and never should be tolerated.

Those who target the camcorder dink show their ignorance of the law, Law Enforcement SOP. and tactics by their statements. It is forgivable to be ignorant but it is inexcusable to be stupid and stand a ground one has not. The officer could have cited him for interference but the Officer knew there were NO GROUNDS for citing him which made the officer even more angry.

If this was my stop I would have informed the guy that next time he should stand across the street and record me, and I would have reminded him that I have NO idea what his intentions are and not being mind reader I must assume the worst. I would never have made a complete a$$ of myself on video like the officer did. Frankly the officers false sense of pride forever damaged his standing in that community, people remember that kind of arrogance.

So in closing it's more often stupid vs stupid in the real world, this isn't television drama. Both acted irresponsible and the officer was determined to out stupid the camcorder guy and did.

Why did I spend more time focusing on the officer? Kinda elementary isn't is? The camcorder guy was untrained and ignorant, the officer is trained and knew better and demonstrated this by not citing the guy for interference, proving his whole stand off with cam man was nothing more than power struggle. The officer demonstrated PURE CONTEMPT for the Constitution, and pure contempt for the RULE OF LAW, and made this a personal vendetta of sorts by using intimidation. The officer is UNFIT to wear a badge and Uniform and carry a gun under the color of law.

I just got called by an officer who watched a video and he echoed the same concerns I stated here. The officer could and should have handled it better and refused to, thus showing arrogance and contempt for the Supreme Law of our land the Constitution.

budlight said:

This is a good example of people sticking there nose into something they know nothing about. If she didn’t feel she deserves the ticket, then she can have her day in court and fight it. Showing up with a video camera and walking over towards the officer would not help her case in anyway regarding the ORIGINAL violation.

What bothers me is that when an officer doesn’t handle a situation correctly, 95% of people on here are quick to point out everything the officer said or did wrong.

But when an OCer doesn’t handle the situation properly, or simply they were looking for some attention, 90% of the people here don’t see anything they did wrong other then:

1. They shouldn’t have talked to the police.
2. They shouldn’t have showed their ID as there was no lawful requirement for them to do so.

NOTE, I agree with both of these, I’m just pointing out that is the ONLY thing the majority ever sees wrong with an OCer.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the way people PRESENT themselves and HOW they talk to others can play a big roll in the out come of things. If we expect an officer to handle things perfectly, then we need to hold ourselves to those same standards.

I also understand that a lot of people on here do present themselves as a good citizen and don’t go out looking for problems or put themselves in a bad situation. I also understand that some have had some very negative encounters with LEOs through no fault of their own.

But in the case of this video, I don’t understand why this OCer felt the need to jump in the car and video tape his girlfriend being pulled over? I don’t have a problem with him video taping, I just wonder what he thought he was going to catch on video. I don’t know anybody who has been driving for a while that hasn’t missed the no turn on red sign, rolled through a stop sign, exceeded the speed limit, etc. When this guy rolled up the video shows his girlfriend in the car. The officer didn’t have her spread eagle on the hood, or tearing her car apart. There was nothing out of the ordinary going on, so if he would have just stayed back on the other side of the road where he came from, the officer probably wouldn’t have paid any attention to him. His camera had a good picture through out the video, so I don’t see any need for him to move in the way he did.

Lastly, his second sentence to the officer, “I’m just holding everybody accountable.” sounds challenging to the officer. The officer didn’t appear to be doing anything wrong but yet he wants to mention accountability. It just sounds like he was looking for trouble.

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Bailenforcer said:

Both acted irresponsible and the officer was determined to out stupid the camcorder guy and did.

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Agreed and well said. My whole point was that the FIRST mistake was the idiot walking up on the traffic stop instead of staying back. I never disagreed that the officer was ALSO wrong.

autosurgeon said:

Budlight you need to read some of the older threads here about police abuse of power. This fellow did just fine. The officers need to know they are being watched and will be held accountable for their actions if they stray over the line into unlawful activities.

Take a look at the following story. Woman driving along minding her own business and while in the same model as the suspect hers was brown not blue and she was a brunette not a blond.. but yet the idiot police decide to stop her and drag her out of the car by her hair.. You need to remove the rose colored glasses and realize there are bad cops as well as good...

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/kalamazoo_and_battle_creek/Woman-mistaken-for-suspect-cop-sorry

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I have read many of the posts on here, and I agree that there have been a number of times where an officer handled a situation poorly, if not illegally. Also this applies to more then OCing, there have been many situations out there where an officer used poor judgment.

I am also aware that there are good cops and bad cops, professional cops and unprofessional cops, etc.

One of the points I was trying to make here is that a lot of people are quick to pass judgment on an officer, but don’t take the time to look at the OCers actions. If we were to start critiquing some of these OC encounters looking at both sides, I think others would learn some examples of how to handle themselves better so they don’t make the same mistake. Just because a persons actions were legal, doesn’t mean they couldn’t have handled or conducted themselves better.

OCers that mind their own business, professionally interact with others, and don’t draw unnecessary attention to them, tend to have fewer confrontations with the police regarding OC. Note, I said FEWER, not NONE.

Lastly, I don’t wear rose colored glass…..matter of fact I don’t where any glass as my eye sight is still good.

yep...as stated by dougwg: Plenty of Fail to go around.

I agree. That's why I said it wasn't directed at you. All too often we as human beings tend to react, instead of act. Reaction is emotional in nature, and to act would hopefully have some forethought. I am surrounded by Law Enforcement as friends, associates and family. Yet I have no problem calling out stupidity when it is in their ranks.

Sad fact is the cam man did his 10% in the stupid factor and the Officer had to make sure he provided the other 90%. Now I have 3 officers weighed in and all 3 agree the officer was way over the top. Guys like him smear all other great hard working Law Enforcement professionals.

budlight said:

Agreed and well said. My whole point was that the FIRST mistake was the idiot walking up on the traffic stop instead of staying back. I never disagreed that the officer was ALSO wrong.

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dougwg said:

The OCer interfered with a traffic stop.

He got too close, Ever hear of the 21' rule?

He distracted the office which was un-needed.

The prudent thing to do is stay across the street on the sidewalk and record.

Yes the cop ....needs training, MUCH training

Plenty of Fail to go around with this one.

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The OCer was acting like a jackass by getting that damn close to the cop.
He was doing this to just piss the cop off,
this is no different than the **** stainless does to get attention brought to us.
He should not have approached the cop while the cop was stopping someone else.
Does not matter girlfriend or not he had ZERO business there.
He should have stayed across the street and waited not gone in and been a pretentious ass