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Thread: Out of state CPL .vs 5-day wait... Is there a reference on it?

  1. #1
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    Out of state CPL .vs 5-day wait... Is there a reference on it?

    So here's my question, where does it say that a recognized out-of-state (FL) CPL isn't recognized as waiving the state 5-day waiting period?

    I've looked at the WA statutes, and AFAIK it makes no distinction between WA permits, and those with reciprocity. FYI I'm a military member stationed here, and legally allowed to purchase...

    I'm not disgruntled, just seeking knowledge from the Oracle ;-)

    Cheers!

    thomasdr72

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    As I read the law it merely says "Concealed Pistol License". Of course this is the name for a Washington State license. Where the problems will come is convincing the "clerk" at the gun shop that a Florida Permit is the same.

    Another possible stumbling block is the reference to a Washington State Driver's license. If one has not been a resident of Washington State for 60 days and doesn't have a Washington State Driver's License, the waiting period can be up to 60 days.

    I don't think the Legislature took into consideration that Active Duty military personnel would be buying firearms here in Washington. This may cause confusion and have gun shops respond in different ways. Then again, maybe not.

    Still confused? There is no real clear answer until you try, I guess.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    If I'm following your question....

    So you are asking since you are active military why your FL permit will not sufficient for a WA to waive the "wait period."

    I don't have the reference but here's my shot at answering your question as best as I can.

    As active duty you know you have "resident" status in all 50 states (so long as you have military orders stationing you at a base in that state). So for all general purposes you hold two resident statuses (FL and WA). For WA residents to carry you can have numerous out of state permits/licenses but you still have to have a WA CPL (concealed pistol license).

    Now back to your question on buying a firearm using your FL permit/license. Some residents of other states can not buy a firearm from another (just have to check with what states are involved - it can include either or both long guns and pistols, etc). I don't know the particulars for FL.

    So, all that said - I'm sure unless the FFL is very knowlegeable in all areas concerning this they will default to show me your orders and/or WA driver's license and WA CPL. No mix and matching of out of state carry permits because as a "WA resident" you need a WA CPL.

    I hope this clarifies your questions a bit - it's not RCW quoted by I'm sure someone will be by to give you all that.

    Thanks for your service -

    Simple solution - just get a WA CPL ($55.25) at any LEO agency.
    Last edited by oldkim; 11-05-2010 at 11:44 AM.
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    The last time I was with someone in this situation (Tx resident, LTC, active duty, with out of state carry permit) he had to wait five days.

    I think you would have to address this question to the Department of Licensing to get a "legal" answer. I could see it going either way, but mostly you can bet on waiting for 5 days...

    Oh...wait. I am sure you'll have to wait for five days. The DOL addresses on several occasions that a person must pass both state and Federal checks. Since the NICS check IS the Federal check, I am guessing that the WA CPL covers as the State check. Absent a WA CPL, the State check would still have to be done, and that is the 5 day period...

    http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firea...dltraining.pdf

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    That's what I suspected... The rules are probably open to interpretation...

    All, thanks for the reply... These answers are exactly what I expected to see (no offense to anyone who replied!). The answer to many of these things are typically "it's complicated."

    True, I typically get extended "resident privileges" in whatever state I happened to be stationed in. Each state interprets what this means, although it typically gets interpreted fairly nicely.

    I don't actually become a resident of the state in which I'm stationed, I vote, own a home, pay taxes, have property, and maintain residency in florida. Actually, as of last year, my spouse isn't forced to become a WA resident either...

    Because my family is from SD, and I joined the AF from there, I also enjoy "resident privileges" there as well (because it's my Home of Record).

    I'll just be patient, and wait my five days... After all, I bought my latest find on Wed, so I'm half done with the wait! I usually only buy a new gun every couple of years anyway...

    I was disappointed to learn that WA FFL's have to collect "use tax" on internet purchases as well, but that's off topic... It does make internet purchases pretty much a wash compared to buying "off the shelf" at the local gun dealer...

    Cheers!

    thomasdr72

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    It's much easier to purchase handguns with the WA ID Card.
    Quote Originally Posted by thomasdrs72 View Post
    I'll just be patient, and wait my five days...
    There might be a hiccup here. If you are not considered a resident, don't have a washington CPL, and don't have either a Wash D/L, or Washington ID card, your waiting period COULD be as long as 60 days.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    When I bought a firearm in New York State, they required my driver's license, CAC ID card, and a copy of my orders for Fort Drum.

    But that is New York. I am almost 100% sure you are going to require your orders stationing you here in the State.

    I'll look into it. I can give you a concise answer by Saturday, the 6th.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    here is the thing no one is realizing. This is an active duty member! For active duty members there "papers" (proof of residency), are their military ID and a copy of their orders. This is how WA State DOL SPECIFICALLY states that Active Duty Military apply for RESIDENT CPL's. Yes that is RESIDENT. Therefore one could logically extrapolate that the same is valid for ANYTHING requiring residency, voting out of COUNTRY (it is), registering utilities (it is), applying for govmet assistance (it is). So how is it NOT valid for purchasing a firearm? Hoe does that create a "felony" situation?
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    The OP is trying to claim that his Florida permit is still valid because he is NOT a resident of Washington State. <----- that's his reasoning, not mine. IF he uses his reasoning.... then his purchase of a handgun in Washington would be a felony.

    He wrote:
    So, if according to him, he doesn't actually become a resident of the state in which he is stationed, then how would it, according to his reasoning, be legal for him to purchase a handgun here?

    You, devildoc5, and I are in agreement. he IS a resident of Washington State because of his orders here. That's what Federal law says. And because he IS a RESIDENT of Washington State, his FL concealed weapons permit is not valid in Washington (for any purpose)..... especially after he proved his residency by buying a handgun here!
    See but here is the problem, plain and simple. When I was active duty stationed in PROC I (although never having ACTUALLY LIVED there) was an IL resident, voted by mail and all that good garbage. That Makes me a RESIDENT of both CA and IL. That is the flaw in your logic. He is CONSIDERED a resident of WA for tax and other purposes, however he IS a resident of FL...

    The OP is ACTUALLY a resident of BOTH! He enjoys the same entitlements of residency in BOTH states.
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

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    ok then here is the question. Why dont AD members have to change over their DL if they are now "residents" of their duty station state? Would not the same apply to CPL providing reciprocity already existed as it does with DL?
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

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    OK, the question was: would the FL Carry Permit allow the purchaser to avoid the five day delay.

    Answer is no, because the FL permit does not provide a WA background check, like the WA CPL does.

    The issue of residency is moot, since we all know military members can buy firearms (to include hand guns) in the state where they reside. His Carry Permit is valid here, because for purposes of driving license, etc., his "home state" license will be recognized.

    (Although, as far as I remember, unless it has changed, your Home of Record will stay the same unless you go in and change it - e.g. to avoid paying state income taxes. Your Home of Record is your state residency... Of course, flaps & squids do things differently than us dog faced guys).

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    Wow, that's lots of food for thought...

    Dang, I knew it was complicated... But that takes things to the next level ;-) Now I need to study some more...

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    Now to start a new thread...

    Very good info... Now to start a new thread... ;-)

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post

    There is a huge difference between Home of Record and State of Residency in the military - and a few military members refuse to acknowledge that difference.
    When I was in the Army "Home of Record" was where they would pay transportation expenses to when you were discharged.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Home of Record...

    Very true on that one... However, just because I arrived in WA on military orders, does NOT make me a legal resident of WA.

    Yes under Federal Law, for the purposes of commerce in Firearms, I am considered a WA resident. I can purchase firearms here, because I live here. But I do not become a legal resident of WA as an AD servicemember unless I choose to do so.

    Check with your legal office, they'll tell you the same thing...

    -Cheers!

    thomasdrs72

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    If that's the case, I guess I'll be applying for a new permit soon then ;-) I would like a reply from the DOL though... $55 is getting close to what it costs me to reload 500 rounds...

    Cheers!

    -thomasdrs72

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    You know how that goes... 30-day limit means: 30 mins of paperwork, 29days, 23hours, 30 mins to sit on said paperwork...

    I may only be an AF Capt, but after 21 years I can detect a poper gov't establishment when I see it...

    Cheers!

    -thomasdrs72
    Last edited by thomasdrs72; 11-07-2010 at 04:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasdrs72 View Post
    You know how that goes... 30-day limit means: 30 mins of paperwork, 29days, 23hours, 30 mins to sit on said paperwork...

    I may only be an AF Capt, but after 21 years I can detect a poper gov't establishment when I see it...

    Cheers!

    -thomasdrs72
    Who knows, they may surprise you. They have 30 days max before they HAVE to issue it but in many cases there are offices that take far longer. My last renewal was in less than 10 days.

    Not all government is run like the Military.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    A good way to prevent all this back and forth and armchair lawyering would be to pose the same question to your base legal. Most all of them have walk in hours where you can ask any legal question you like. I HIGHLY doubt they will know the answer right off hand, however they will follow up and do the research themselves without you having to lift a finger (except to crank more rounds out of the press) and get you your answer. Also they will probably give you a hard time about CC and being on post and registering your firearms and everything else. Just remember to make sure they know (if they ask) that you are following all lawful regulations. Also remember that if you live off you are no longer required to register your weapons on post UNLESS you are bringing them on post and only through "a secure checkpoint"...
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    A good way to prevent all this back and forth and armchair lawyering would be to pose the same question to your base legal. Most all of them have walk in hours where you can ask any legal question you like. I HIGHLY doubt they will know the answer right off hand, however they will follow up and do the research themselves without you having to lift a finger (except to crank more rounds out of the press) and get you your answer. Also they will probably give you a hard time about CC and being on post and registering your firearms and everything else. Just remember to make sure they know (if they ask) that you are following all lawful regulations. Also remember that if you live off you are no longer required to register your weapons on post UNLESS you are bringing them on post and only through "a secure checkpoint"...
    Oh, I'll be asking the question for sure... I have the JAG office on speed dial, but they weren't at work when the question came to mind... There must be something in the water at McChord, as almost all of the atty's there are mid-20's young, attractive ladies ;-)

    Cheers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasdrs72 View Post
    Oh, I'll be asking the question for sure... I have the JAG office on speed dial, but they weren't at work when the question came to mind... There must be something in the water at McChord, as almost all of the atty's there are mid-20's young, attractive ladies ;-)

    Cheers!
    Can I get that base legal number from you as well? I have been looking for mid-20's young, attractive lady or 6....
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

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    I'll have get it off of my desk phone in the morning...

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    Just make it easy

    Get a WA ID card, drive up to Silverdale Kitsap County Sheriff's office with a copy of your orders in hand, Hand the nice lady the money get inkless fingerprints taken, and walk out with your BRAND NEW WA CPL.
    All of this in about 30 minutes.

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    What's a WA ID card cost? Like I need something else with my picture on it in my wallet!





    Cheers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasdrs72 View Post
    What's a WA ID card cost? Like I need something else with my picture on it in my wallet!





    Cheers!
    $10

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